20 replies to this topic

[oneshot]

Watching the post race stuff on Sky - they were standing outside the Williams garage interviewing someone when there was a fireball from the Williams garage.

Subsequently acrid black smoke and mechanics from all teams with extinguishers.

Apparently there have been some injuries but not much detail at the moment.

[Al.]

I had just finished reading this in Autosport

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/99589

Doesn't look good when mechanics from other teams have smoke inhalation issues. I am sure we will find out about a lot more injuries soon.

[oneshot]

Sky were reporting that one of their cameramen helped a mechanic out whose legs were on fire

[Al.]

Up to 9 now injured

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/99599

[molemot]

Fortunately, doesn't sound too bad...could have been dreadful. What a shame after their race win! Well done all the teams for rallying round in the common cause.

Just seen a photo of the aftermath....lots of destruction, pits gutted in minutes. Theory is that a KERS issue set fire to/exploded some fuel,and away it went. The photo showed Sennas car minus bodywork and obviously having been in a conflagration...can't tell if the bodywork had been removed for transit or if it had been totally destroyed by the fire.

Edited by molemot, 13 May 2012 - 05:23 PM.

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

Scary series of pics here...

http://www.planetf1....Paddock#photo=3

[bingoking]

What is amazing about these pictures is that not one of them was wearing fire protection equipment. I suppose there was no time and they reacted on instinct but were there no fire marshals in the pits?

[DanR]

Lucky they were on to it so quickly. Could have been so much worse.

[USAndretti42]

I haven't seen any pictures yet which show any firemen tackling the fire, only team members. That's rather shocking, Without the quick reactions of those teams that helped attack the fire, it would have been much worse. Bloody sad end to the celebrations.

[Al.]

What is amazing about these pictures is that not one of them was wearing fire protection equipment. I suppose there was no time and they reacted on instinct but were there no fire marshals in the pits?

As an Offshore Fire Team Leader for donkey years and a Marshal for even more my thoughts on this:

Yes, they will have reacted on instinct and nobody will still have fire suit on this long after the race.

One of the best ways of keeping your distance when fire fighting is knowing you are cooking. You will see fire crews wearing all the bunker suits and full BA etc. but they rarely have tops of ears or a similar place covered because when you fully cover up you do not feel the heat until maybe overcommitted. We have had guys wearing full face helmet type BA sets (usually for better comms) wanting to leap in even closer to fires when paired with normal BA wearers on training courses just because they do not feel the heat. The normal BA wearers usually win. We used to say if you finished a week long fire course every 2 years without blistered ear tops we hadn't been trying (N. Sea Tigers bullshit. In reality we had cocked up and hurt people) These suits can get so hot we actually hose them off and the guys steam on exit from training modules. It is also another reason you will rarely see the old fashioned silver full fire suits nowadays. Only very specific applications use them becuase it is a bit like wrapping up the turkey in tin foil........

Regards the lack of fire marshals this was 1 hour after race finished. Marshals are all volunteers generally and are stood down at the end of a days racing. At a GP weekend, the F1 race in my experience in most places I've been is the end of the days motorsport or maybe only 1 race to follow who may even use a separate pit lane and area like Silverstone. Even a following race would be over by then. Pit lane marshals will be long gone. I'm not saying the risk had gone but until now the percieved risk that was being protected against had. All the teams will have started breaking down all their kit for packing within minutes of the chequerd flag ready to ship out ASAP.

Todays latest comment in Autosport.
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/99605

[Al.]

Another Autosport update

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/99613

[Guy Munday]

So how much heat is in a KERS device that allows it to catch fire one hour after the end of the race and probably nearer two since Senna retired early??

[red vtec]

May have been an electrical fire rather than heat.

[Kimbers]

Nice to see in the pics, so many other teams mechanics mucking in, HRT, Caterham, Marussia, Torro Rosso. I suppose all the teams that were around them in the pits.

[Al.]

So how much heat is in a KERS device that allows it to catch fire one hour after the end of the race and probably nearer two since Senna retired early??

Apart from the fact as far as I have read it is only possibly the KERS unit that caused the fire, It doesn't have to have been hot to have caused the fire. It may just have been the source of ignition.

If the teams drain their cars and other kit of petrol as I think they do at the end of the race then there maybe was a build up of hydrocarbon vapours if not ventilated properly. Which if enough of will take the mix of air and vapours above the LEL (Lower Explosive Limit). Getting there is only one side of the fire triangle as you then need to ignite it somehow. The KERS units probably have enough static charge in them for this and maybe it somehow shorted or maybe a mechanic was doing something to discharge it at the time and that would have been enough. For all we know maybe less ventilation that day as more people due to winning. Maybe things done in a different order as team was celebrating rather than clearing up and all it would take is slight change in circumstances and hey presto - blinding flash.

That would explain the initial reports of fireball or flashover which wasn't what you then saw all the black smoke from. That will be plastics or rubber or similar burning to be like that. Not just petrol. It is comparitively (to that) clean. I am not surprised so many suffered smoke inhalation issues when you see how dense and acrid that was. The smoke inhalation can lead to fluid on the lungs and other horrible complications. Not just a case of get some fresh air. Get some O2 and proper medical care of which at least there was plenty available. Something else in otherwords ignighted with the initial flash fire. I see all the plastic pit screens are folded over and melted so easily this or a tyre or something.

Anyway the final report will make interesting reading as in my experience of incident investigation (far too much) it almost certainly will have been a chain of events and not just one single failure.

[Exploded]

With KERS one can also have a simple static discharge combined with some kind of fire accelerator, that could cause this inferno. Could have been a lot worse.

[Bibs]

€3m damage

http://www.bild.de/s...40720.bild.html

[Exploded]

That's quite a lot of money...

[molemot]

Lithium batteries, as used in the KERS systems, aren't the most stable of things anyway. The model aeroplane fraternity have experienced several fires due to these batteries self combusting...leading to the loss of models. vehicles and suchlike. Even a house was damaged, I believe..and one chap had a battery pack catch fire in his pocket.... The warnings about recharging them are frightening.
Apart from the cause of the conflagration, there is also the matter of what was burned; if carbon fibre burns, it can produce a large amount of particulate matter of very small size,which - when carried in the air and inhaled - has just the same effect as asbestos. So all the brave guys who went in, unprotected, to fight the fire are possibly at risk of further complications; once that stuff's in the lungs, it won't come back out.

[Rich H]

Steady on now, speculation is pretty pointless could just have easily been a crushed mains cable or somesuch less exciting but more probably source. I very much doubt they will ever know for sure given the extent of the damage.

The stuff that burned is potentially pretty scary stuff though burned carbon fibre resin can be nasty.