17 replies to this topic

[The Veg]

I've learned today that my water pump gasket is leaking. Of course this problem would arise just as my sub-tropical part of the world is getting into the nasty-hot, solar inferno humid summer conditions.

A quick'n'dirty search of this forum tells me that I'm in for a really wonderful experience doing this job. Last summer I did a C-service but didn't touch the pump beyond connecting new hoses to it. Any advice or cautions for attempting this?

And no, before anybody suggests it, pulling the engine is not an option for me at this time.

[semi42]

you recall a tv program called "kung fu"? where grasshopper plunges his hands in hot sand to condition them?
i suggest you do that

[Mr_John111]

It is possible to remove in situ.

To extract the pump ( if you want to inspect rather than just slip in a new gasket ) you will need to disconnect the engine mounting nuts and lift the engine slightly at the front to open up the gap.

Other than that there is one set screw holding the pump on which is tucked behind the auxiliary pulley. It may need to be mangled to remove it but it's a good idea to replace it with a socket cap with an Allen key head. The replacement should have a slightly shorted thread which is then easier to remove next time. Available from SJ Sportscars or probably locally if someone can give you the thread length.

John

Edited by Mr_John111, 30 May 2012 - 06:36 AM.

[Roger the Dodger]

As above, but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
May as well recon the pump, the kit is not expensive and comes with a gasket, and since you're there may as well do the timing belt at the same time.

[molemot]

Roger's called it.....if the pump isn't leaking (and how can you be sure it's only the gasket, anyway....far more likely it's the pump!) it will do after you've changed the gasket....and if you're going through all the misery, then it makes sense to only do it once(!). New cambelt and v belts at the saem time...then relax for a couple of years!! I have done the job in situ...and I never will again!

[andydclements]

If you want to leave most things attached, some hoses will have to be detached for the pump to come off, then how about removing the bolts that secure engine and transaxle to the car and shift it back a couple of inches. We did that in Simon's and I managed to get my hands in there then (think shovels)

[Mr_John111]

If you are going to do that watch you don't strain the exhaust on the rear valance

John

Edited by Mr_John111, 30 May 2012 - 05:33 PM.

[Tony K]

Good information in this thread! To add to what John said, if you have a swivel socket or crow's foot, you might be able to extract that one bolt that is blocked by the aux. sprocket, but if not, you may have to pull the auxiliary housing just to get that one bolt (but when you do, it frees up a *lot* of room). If you replace it with an allen/hex head bolt, you may be able to rotate the sprocket as to put the allen key through the hole in the sprocket to get to the bolt.

[The Veg]

I'm SO glad that y'all warned me about that screw. I'm not at that point yet, but I can only imagine the consternation I would have been in for.

All belts were new nine months/<4K miles ago, including JAE blue cambelt. I do plan to rebuild the pump as I don't want to have to get it loose again anytime in the foreseeable future.

[andydclements]

I've managed to get one out with the sprocket in place but it was a pig of a job. Leave it so that it's the last bolt in and then rely on moving the pump casting slightly to get enough deflection on the bolt for it to come out. Once out use a cap-head type.

[The Veg]

Got progress to report. The pump is out, but damn I sure had to take a lot of stuff apart to do it.

As for some of the things you guys suggested:

That bugger of a screw- it was already a hex-head, so I'm guessing that the pump has been out before.

Moving the engine back- not necessary; I did the trick I'd read somewhere in these fora a while back and cut a gap in the edge of the 'lip' that runs across the firewall, thus allowing the bolt-heads on the pulley to clear.

Another thing that made the job easier was removing the intake manifold, which I had to do anyway to get to two of the screws that secure the throttle-bodies, as the TB gaskets were failing and needed renewal.

Now for the weird part.

The pump gasket was missing.

Not only that; it appeared that the last time that the pump was put on, there was NOTHING sealing it! I found no trace of a gasket, no trace of any sealant, just nice clean metal mating surfaces. I have no Earthly idea how it held coolant and pressure inside! The manual clearly shows a gasket, so I'm guessing that I should install one when I put it all back together.

Good information in this thread! To add to what John said, if you have a swivel socket or crow's foot, you might be able to extract that one bolt that is blocked by the aux. sprocket, but if not, you may have to pull the auxiliary housing just to get that one bolt (but when you do, it frees up a *lot* of room). If you replace it with an allen/hex head bolt, you may be able to rotate the sprocket as to put the allen key through the hole in the sprocket to get to the bolt.

Tony, that one was a hex too but the head seemed to be just-in-line with the edge of the sprocket such that an allen would not help it in the future. I found it easy to instead remove the aux sprocket. Last year when I did C-service and other 'while I'm in there' jobs I did a sprocket-swap and bought a very small puller for the job; used it again to pull the sprocket today. Done, and quickly too.

[andydclements]

Pump gaskets were only early cars IIRC, such as Jensen and S1&2. Can't recall exactly when but I'm sure they were dropped quite early on.

[ramjet]

Wow. The odds of two metal surfaces being able to seal properly is pretty small other than on gauge blocks. Are you sure there wasn't a gasket there which has dropped away when the last bolt came out? It is highly likely you would have seen it before then, but you never know.

[The Veg]

Yeah, looked under the car and down the front of the engine. No gasket. Manual does show one in the drawings for both versions of the pump, but I can believe not using one, as I have a memory of my dad sealing up the pump on his '70 Plymouth with nothing but smelly dark green gasket-goop and it never leaked for the 15 years he kept the car after that.

New question: before I go doing stoopid things with a puller (or worse), what's the proper way to get to the pump's shaft-seal?

[ramjet]

Dunno without seeing one and have never done mine, so a fat lotta good I am!

[jonwat]

New question: before I go doing stoopid things with a puller (or worse), what's the proper way to get to the pump's shaft-seal?

Are you still going to replace the pump now that you definitely know that the leak was caused by the missing gasket & not a leaking seal in the pump?

If you can feel absolutely no sideways play on the shaft there's probably nothing at all wrong with the pump & as you know from the socket head bolt that's it's been off previously & probably replaced once before so it's probably got very few miles under it's belt & will give many more miles without any problem.

[Mike6]

My car is an 88 Carb turbo and there is no gasket fitted on the water pump. Surfaces are machine finished and sealed with sealant.

Make sure you double check before refitting. Also if I were you I would go for an exchange water pump (around £100) rather than the kit. I gave up trying to get components back and you need to be careful of the alloy casing. In the end I took the thing to an automotive shop and ended up paying more than the recond unit.

[andydclements]

To extract the pump bearing, seal and impeller:

Using a puller, remove the flange the pulley bolts to having noted the distance between the face of it and the face of the casting (you need to put it to that distance when re-assembling).
Heat the casting with a blow lamp to get it even and good and hot.
Press out the shaft, bearing and impeller from the outer edge towards the engine face. Support as much of the casting face around the impeller as possible and press on the outer edge of the bearing not the shaft.
The impeller is then removed supporting the impeller as much as possible (and even as possible) by pressing on the shaft from the non-veined side of the impeller.

The will may have come out with the bearing, clean up the casting where the seal needs to sit against.

To re-assemble, it's heat casting again, press new bearing/shaft assembly in so that the outer face is level with the outer face of the casting. Press on pulley flange by pressing against shaft and obtain correct position. Put new seal in, put impeller on by pressing against it and the shaft (obtain correct space between impeller veins and casting).

DO NOT TURN DRY- water is the lubricant for the seal/impeller surface.