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Showing content with the highest reputation on 02/07/19 in all areas

  1. 8 points
    Thanks @Bibs ! Picked up the car during the Leven Lotus owners Sunday breakfast BBQ meet. Interestingly there were several Porsche owners (GT2 RS & GT3) there as well! Overheard one of them enquiring about a 430 Exige Cup to add to his collection. A sign of the times I suspect! Also managed to catch-up & compare notes at some length with fellow TLF Sport 410 diehards @ricvx & @C8RKH The team at Levens were also a pleasure to deal with. The 3 hour drive to the ferry was hugely enjoyable. First impressions were that unsurprisingly compared with the 410 the Ohlins damper set up gives a much stiffer feel to the car on rough road surfaces. The car felt very precise and predictable on the motorway. More speed provided noticeably more stability. It sits much lower than the 410 and this in combination with the carbon front splitter will make negotiating speed bumps, ramps etc. a far more difficult proposition. (The 410 simply glides over them). The engine map is noticeably more aggressive at mid range (aided by the exhaust valves fully opening at 4500 revs). The aero features in combination with the carbon are stunning. The burnt orange and Matt black wheels/callipers really helps to accentuate this and with the carbon buckets gives the car a very functional race/track oriented appearance. I was told that Scott Walker had a personal hand in the detailed spec of the car. Hats off to him as it suits the car in every way. Some real fun to be had over the rest of the summer!
  2. 7 points
  3. 5 points
    @Garv Mk I'm starting to struggle to follow your logic and what it is you desire. Apologies for being thick here. The market for new cars right now is very tough and all dealers are struggling. Mercedes are doing finance at 11%+ (compared to many Lotus dealers at 5%) and the whopping dealer contributions of £3-8k are being funded by the dealers commission on the finance! I bet many Merc (and others) dealers are only really making money by hitting sales cycle volume targets. So Lotus on Finance is competitive at least. You then say Lotus cars are too expensive and list off a large number of overweight, over stuffed, mass produced, exec sports barges as a comparator to an almost bespoke, handmade product. It's like comparing a £3k craftsman built wardrobe to an Ikea one costing £300. Yeah, they both do the job but one is more, in every way to the other. Other comparisons would be a Rolex watch to a Festina or a Rotary. What do you actually want? Bragging rights down the pub, or a solidly engineered, beautifully handling, relatively no compromise and focused sports car? I bought a new Evora 410 sport. I could have gone for the more mainstream 400 but it was too polished for me. I wanted something that felt more focused, was more uncompromising (just ask people re the carbon seats) and therefore to me, more special. To get it, I had to pay a premium but it was worth it to me. I have one of only 25 UK cars and the only one in my colour. Like me, it's special I could have, for the same money bought a used R8, a Nissan GTR, a BMW M5/M8, a Porkpie 911 or GT4, etc but I didn't. Why? Well, as I'm special I like to be a bit different. I don't want to conform and blend in. I like the Lotus ethos and heritage. It's a relatively pure brand to me, not too tainted by global branding and corporate bollocks. Lotus are mavericks in a way. Whilst everyone was going for power, they chose a different path. Their history and DNA is racing. The road cars where just the means to pay for racing. So, like in the examples above, to me Lotus are artisans. Creating bespoke works of art to be used, savoured and cherished. So to me, I don't think a £100k for a car with the history, heritage, pedigree, and raw performance of a 410 or 430 Exige is over priced. But then we're all different. My wondering is do you really want a Lotus enough to pay the premium for what is a superbly engineered, handmade, capable product in a sea of mass produced, samesy and safe clones? Just a question.
  4. 4 points
    A super car in the hands of a super owner! After out chat Jimmy I'm looking at planning an Irish road trip for next year. Anyone interested?
  5. 3 points
    Today I decided that I should put my soft top on, and as I also have VX220 here and that some V6 Exige owners are struggling to find soft tops, I thought Id try something out. So I fitted first the VX220 soft top (apparently also the same as later S2 Elises but I cant confirm that). It fitted perfectly, if anything its neater at the rear than the Exige. My daughters roof (its her VX220) isn't in the best of nick but it went on easily and was a good fit, even without doing any of the adjusting possible. Below are pictures showing the comparison. Hope this helps as there are a lot more VX220 soft tops (and S2 Elise) around than Exige V6 ones! Martin S
  6. 3 points
    I'd love it if McLaren did the 600LT for under £100k too. But do my best not to waste time wishing it were the case or telling McLaren that they've got it all wrong and that it's 'just' a 570S with a few pits stuck on, they're ripping people off, you'd have to be an idiot to buy one.... and so on. Lotus were always considered expensive this is nothing new. The Esprit was always 'how much for a 4 cylinder?!' The Turbo Esprit had a higher list price than the Ferrari 308 in 1980. The Esprit Sport 300 was £65k back in 1993. I'm sure most here can remember the hoo har when the S2 Exige passed £40k. The first Exige V6s and Evoras were real bargains in truth, as was the Evora 400. JMG's strategy of rapid model updates and price increases was to get the cars to the point where they are profitable. That plan has succeeded in finding a backer for Lotus and the new model launches has ground to a halt. The current cars are all at the end of their product cycles and without updates or any new marketing drives you would expect sales to drop off. We all have to work with what we can afford. Good for those who got into an Exige V6 when they cheaper. Good for those buying now at a big discount. Good for those who choose the Komotec route. But it would also be nice to see some appreciation for those who are willing to pay the current prices. They are keeping the lights on currently.
  7. 3 points
    I go back to me previous comments since they started these price shenanigans... Lotus was the proper drivers car, the one that wasn't a 'dream' but actually possible and achievable, the one which could put the supercars to shame, the drivers car for the every day man (and woman)! When they started with the 'new' pricing model they screwed this brand purpose.
  8. 2 points
    https://www.thelotusforums.com/latest-news/lotus-cars-news/yellow-lotus-owner-want-an-advance-preview-of-the-lotus-type-130-hypercar/
  9. 2 points
  10. 2 points
    As did I........... My whinge was timing... When I bought my 380 I was told "Nope, factory says there will never be a 4xx model", so I bought a 380. Four months later when the 430 came out I was quoted my car, with a massive depreciation hit plus the difference. I would have happily paid the 430 asking price if I had not bought my 380, BUT I was never going to pay the upgrade price. And thats the rub Lotus now have with people like me who would happily buy another at the right price point, but the price isn't at the right point. Just my 2p worth. cheers Mark ps think I said this before
  11. 2 points
  12. 2 points
    Cant deny the pricing is bonkers regardless... and I'm very happy for people to buy 430's and take the depreciation hit on my behalf
  13. 2 points
    The outer CV joint is fitted with a circlip. See section FE of the Lotus Service Notes for a complete description of boot replacement procedure.
  14. 2 points
    South France - FOR THE DRIVERS
  15. 1 point
    Superdudes! And beardy types. I am about to return my Esprit to the roads of Britain and thought I would give you a bit of a heads up, seeing as you're into this type of thing. But, please note; a, this is not a restoration, and, b, I have not done any of the work myself (thankfully for all concerned, including the car). Background - two and a half years ago I decided to buy an S1 and modify it (on the basis that the car in original form could not be considered a daily driver). But, it became clear that to modify an S1 would be a bit like touching up the Mona Lisa, so I decided not to take on the sandal and pipe brigade and settled for an S2. Now, at the time, there were actually more S1's (one) on the market than S2's (none)! The market has changed muchly since then (there are now more S2's (and Sport 350's, weirdly) than bearded middle aged men to drive them!). Luckily, Bibs rode his keyboard to the rescue and I ended up buying a partially restored S2 from Bell and Colvill, which happened to laying low at their super secret workshop in Bristol; namely Tomorrow's Classics. And, there it has remained for the past two and a half years, being stripped and poked and hammered and bolted. And sworn at. The intent - To create a 'G' Esprit that can be used everyday, with absolute priority going to safety and reliability, without fundamentally altering the look. The work - the list of work completed on the car is, not unusually, quite extensive. So, please take all the elements of a standard 'body off' 'nut-and-bolt' restoration as read, including upgrading where practicable. In sum, the major work has included: Mechanical: Refurbished, powder-coated chassis Refurbished and upgraded engine to high compression 2.2 litre fuel injection system and stainless steel exhaust Upgraded suspension system, lowered and adjusted for larger wheels Upgraded brakes Upgraded gearbox and clutch with new gear linkages, lightweight flywheel, clutchplate etc Refurbished steering rack Upgraded cooling system with alloy radiator, triple fans, water pump, stainless steel pipes etc Added oil cooling system Replaced HV unit with integrated, compact HV+AC system (compressor, condenser, evaporator etc) Replaced windscreen wiper motor, arm and blade with uprated version Replaced fuel tanks with baffled versions, increase tank-to-tank flow, fuel pump etc Interior: Re-sighted/replaced 2 air vents with 2 circular vents (to side window positions) Added control panel to binnacle for HV+AC Added sound proofing / insulation (dynamat and dynaliner and lots of it) Replaced seat belts (change belt colour to tan) Replaced interior marcasite trim with brown alcantara Added S1 style central chrome ashtray (central arm rest 'de-ribbed') Painted new binnacle facia satin black, upgraded gauges, replaced switchgear and warning lights Bodywork: Replaced fuel filler caps with locking versions (S3 style) and painted body colour Removed original aerial and painted hole in bodywork Replaced wheels with Woolfrace styled highly polished, wider replica 17” special build wheels Painted engine cover and hatch gold Replaced front and rear screens with 'special build' versions Electrical: Upgraded electrical system with high capacity battery, alternator and wiring etc Added reversing camera and 2 reversing sensors (flush into the rear bumper) Replaced speakers, relocated to rear bulkhead and added tweeters to A pillars Replaced stereo with double din Apple Car Play mechless system (Sony XAV-AX100), including phone preparation, integrated radio aerial and USB power socket to glove box Added central locking / remote boot release / alarm and immobiliser Replaced all bulbs everywhere with LEDs Added LED DRLs to front air intake (in front of grille) Added side indicators Added high rear LED brake light Replaced headlights with bi-xenon There's still a little of this list left to be completed, but the car is on the home straight, with just the electrical installation, ECU programming and road testing to be completed. The workers - as I have said, not me. Tomorrow's Classics, based just north of Bristol have completed the work (both before and after change of ownership), and I can not praise them highly enough. Nick, Rory, Steve, James (their leccie superdude) and Keith (on upholstery) have done a superb job and come highly recommended. But don't take my word for it, Bell and Colvill use them for their restorations and currently there are (I think) seven Esprits in the shop being worked on. Can't praise Nick and his team enough. They've been fantastic to work with on this project. And it's not been quick, or easy (apparently fitting air con to a non air con Esprit is a bit of a job - who knew?). The engine, incidentally, is an 'everything on the menu, please' LotusBits rebuild. You name it, LotusBits threw it in. The money - I'm all at sea about whether to reveal the cost, suffice to say, it's 6 figures and a whole lot more than any S2 is worth, or is likely to be worth anytime soon. But, that isn't the issue for me - it's my car, for me. So, in five weeks time (as I am away until early August), the car will be ready for the road, and I am superly turbo excited. I attach a montage of pictures from throughout the build (because pictures, right?) and would appreciate your thoughts (noting that it's too late to change anything, and I wouldn't anyway). Awe. Some.
  16. 1 point
    Afternoon all Does anyone know the purpose of this two button switch on the front of the gearstick console? thanks Greg
  17. 1 point
    Which is one of the reasons why lotus seem to have made cars available to known you tubers most of whom seem to rave about the cars and don't seem to think the cars are expensive. Surely cars only seem expensive if you can't afford them
  18. 1 point
    Lotus want and need to attract new customers to the brand. All of the debate about current prices here is, naturally enough, from the point of view of existing customers. The number of people who can afford a Lotus but don't currently consider one is far greater than the number of sales (which mostly come from repeat customers like us lot). Fully accepting that Lotus cars aren't for everyone, let's say as much as 95% of Porsche, Audi, Jaguar and Aston Martin buyers would not want a Lotus even if they drove one. It's not a massive stretch then to imagine that just 5% might actually prefer something more focused and communicative or want something that is better suited to trackdays perhaps. The current 1500 cars per year level isn't even 1% so you can see the potential. New customers have no idea what an Exige cost 5 years ago so they just don't look at it like we do. Many of them are used to paying a lot more for their sports cars. But it costs money to reach these people and get them booking test drives. Lotus have been plugging holes in a sinking canoe since JMG left, they haven't started paddling forward yet. JMG left them with a lot of work to do to get ready for the big change that's planned and much of the focus is on future cars. So the current cars remain fantastic, overlooked, unappreciated driver's cars. The Exige remains a unique driving experience and no one will be making cars like the Exige soon. Not even Lotus. If they get it right and find a way to appeal to a broader audience with different priorities to most of us here then it might not appeal as strongly to those of us who like these extreme, crazy little road racers.
  19. 1 point
    The more I think about it .........
  20. 1 point
    I’ve had an idea.....what about a group buy of 430’s....get say 20 of us ,all go to one dealer .......bingo! 430 for 75k?
  21. 1 point
    I believe that the flange between the downpipe and the 3rd cat/bypass pipe is at a different rotation.
  22. 1 point
    Maybe... in the short term it’s proven itself but given cars at dealers aren’t moving in the long term it may bite. Investment into production and (dare I say it) automation is needed to help improve their ability to scale, find margin, and allow more cars to be sold at a price range which doesn’t discount the traditional buyer and encourages ‘new’ buyers to take a chance on something different... just as I did... Problem is this isn’t a quick fix, requires investment, and takes time something Lotus didn’t have... but as the senior leadership team move on after achieving I guess their short term objectives the team do need to think about the long term and their ability to scale and mature.
  23. 1 point
    Yes it would be better if the reverse sensors were flush, but I prefer the fact that the diffuser surround is set back further than the S models as I find the S diffuser is to pronounced. That's only my NA owners opinion though . It's not that I'm jealous of not having a supercharger of course
  24. 1 point
    In the past two or three years haven’t Lotus moved into profit for the first time in several decades? That would suggest that the new strategy is working. The new models may look expensive compared to their predecessors, but not so much against their competitors. Sadly I probably won't be able to afford another new one, but that’s okay, I love what I already have.
  25. 1 point
    eBay seller. Supplies all glue and gloves glass paper and instructions. Just one thing. They are not single letters they are on a strip.
  26. 1 point
    So how did they use to sell the V6 for circa £55k new before prices went a little ‘exclusive’? You can’t honeslty believe a bit of carbon, some nitrons, and an engine costs circa £55k? Can you deep down in your heart (taking any brand loyalty or any association with the Lotus Group out that can distort a view) argue that the brand purpose of the everyday drivers car is seriously at threat with today’s prices? I think the points raised are pretty fair, equally the movement in the market kinda proves the point... we are all lotus owners because we love our cars and in turn have something in common so let’s not fall out
  27. 1 point
    Congrats on the purchase, it's a gorgeous car! I am slightly biased owning a burnt orange Evora NA with SR wrap so yours is effectively a better modern updated version of mine, some of the short fallings corrected and all the good bits remain but turned up a couple of notches. I'm glad someone took it off the market as I was starting to look into selling one of my kidneys to finance buying this lovely machine! . Wishing you many happy traffic free miles of motoring! Oh yes please, I was in Galway last year and the roads on outskirts looked amazing with great views. I was also in the south many years ago and same there too, lovely scenery and windy roads.
  28. 1 point
    Nice one cheers yes to be honest I was going to replace them with my own grills within the extender but once fitted I found it really wasn't obvious. When purchasing them I saw on the pictures that they fitted that way and was a little unimpressed. I was thinking it's maybe so the paint isn't affected by the heat on the exhaust maybe. But after fitting it really is no issue for me now. I have some grill mesh that matches the front grills on standby if I change my mind Another picture from a more complimentary angle , loving the Larini in straight through mode too
  29. 1 point
    Ah, I see. Yes, I’ve had that problem before, but on some Spax dampers. I seem to recall they were totally immovable, so I did precisely the same as you, just left them be. I suppose there’s a case for moving them back and forth during a service, although I’ve not had the same issue with the Gaz dampers I’ve been using for a while now. I fully understand you’d want to be a bit careful about broadcasting the fact that your knob’s seized up.
  30. 1 point
    I sense this thread could go back to the old times of the GT4 vs Exige thread many moons ago... I do agree let’s calm language as all opinions have value My view which could be completely wrong, Lotus needed to increase sales and profit, the easiest option was to provide new variants with a few fancy pieces and limited edition promises to justify the increase in sales price. Production and operations wouldn’t need much change or investment. It isn’t rocket science as a strategy and the core of the business and car haven’t fundamentally changed... which is where I question the price to value for the actual customer... hence the many posts you read about owners who just can’t justify the switching costs to upgrade which is a real shame for the brand and will effect future sales.
  31. 1 point
    I’ll do that as well at times Fabian and I’ve only been at it a couple of years now. Nothing compared to you. The old girl keeps me off the couch and doing her type of yoga. Add Singapore heat and humidity to it for extra flavour. Masochism in a way but I still like it. My neighbours have declared me crazy some time ago. Who cares, they don’t get it.. It’s the journey, not the destination. The destination will be epic with your car. Can’t wait to see it finished.
  32. 1 point
    Massive congratulations to you again Jimmy. It was great to meet you and great to see this car going to a well deserved home. You'll be turning heads everywhere with that thing!
  33. 1 point
    Once purchased, it is worth also considering a little paint: Painty numbers
  34. 1 point
    You should watch that YouTube video doing the rounds about the 410 being an absolute steal in the current market it’s a belter and has more than 80k views now, more than many other Lotus vids. I have to agree Lotus has a niche market and sell enough to keep themselves happy, didn’t they break sales records last year? Also their semi rarity keeps the market for resale pretty good compared to cliff edge depreciation in most other Marques. Anyway, good luck in sourcing a good deal
  35. 1 point
    To the point about lots of deals on new.... I spoke to 5 dealers from Scotland to the South East and most were willing to do a massive deal off list...BUT that was effectively giving ALL of their margin... the saving was not coming from Lotus. This will not work in the long term as the dealers don’t do the volumes... and they need to make money on an £70k+ asset...You will see that they do 50:50 on 0% apr - this significantly reduces their margin (as they have to subidise it) and so if you want that deal, they can’t do as good a deal on the OTR price. It was better for me to take 4.9% apr than the 0%. On new cars, there is an £1800 first yr tax charge - in essence a massive waste of money and its due on every exige inc 350 (due to emissions value) ...hence why I went for a pre-reg. My overarching point is that the cars are not selling unless the dealers take a massive hair cut on the selling price... which tells me they are too expensive for the uk market. In my opinion, the 350 is a £55k car, the 410 is a £65k car and the 430 is a £75k car - Finally, you should NOT have to spend £10k on options... paint, a/c, radio, cruise, sound proofing, mats, alcantara/leather seats should all be standard - very few manufacturers get away with optioning such essentials these days. I really hope Lotus are listening to these threads....
  36. 1 point
    DELIVERED!!! Car was delivered today!! First off the driver was top notch. If anyone needs a car shipped this guy was amazing. First I ordered the car to be shipped on an open truck. The owner of the truck upgraded me to a closed semi (not a soft closure but hard) for no additional cost, in fact I had no idea until the seller told me. He also was on time for pick up and delivery to the hour. He was in contact with me the entire time and was texting me about the car condition throughout his drive. Okay now the car! It had to be delivered to my folks house since I am out of the country until the 4th. So my parents are sitting in it pressing all the buttons and pretending they are driving it SMH.... Thank god they cant drive stick. Anyway 3 days until I am taking full possession. Once I get there ill post pix. Oh yeah and for everyone who said its hard to get in and out of my parents are in their 70s and had no trouble.
  37. 1 point
    I'm going to bite the bullet and strip & re-build them. It's been 12yrs since they were last done with a fair bit of sitting around over the winter.
  38. 1 point
    Ummm nope - it’s not 42. Bacon is the answer
  39. 1 point
    Started to do some work again on my old project. I have not seen this done before to an Esprit, a few race cars have had complete rear clams that lift off. Mine just flips up like a Ferrari F40 the rear top quarter stays attached to the rear tailgate . The hinges and struts seem up to the job taking the weight no problem. That rear section does not weigh much anyway and I am not going to use the glass window. I plan to make a frame to support the rear bumper, valance and rear lower quarters so that will all stay in place. This is going to be great to gain access to work on the car I am getting too old to climb over the back into the hatch!
  40. 1 point
    Apparently not as it sold for £10,101.
  41. 1 point
    Looks terrific in person, I think the return to more body colour panels for the 410s is a welcome move too. Have no interest in wasting pixels arguing about matters of personal taste in any event. It would be a lot more worthwhile to return to the point being discussed. Lots of hysteria at '£100k' Exiges when there are new ones for advertised for sale under £80k, who's to say what they could be bought for?
  42. 1 point
    No, wait, @Dan E did turn up after all..........
  43. 1 point
    Okay guys so my first set of fairly minor mods have been completed. I've had a pretty stressy day due to the fact I discovered that my car didn't have a tool kit in it with the appropriate wheel bolt adapter. That combined with DHL being a bunch of Muppets and failing to deliver the replacement kit along with my new tyres meant that I had to drive from Kings Lynn where my garage is to Stratton in Norwich and back to buy one Anyway it ended well as I'm really happy with the Eibach springs from Komotec. I think it really enhances the stance of the car, they won't have settled yet but they've dropped by about 10mm at the rear and about 20mm at the front. As an additional plus I genuinely feel that after giving her a good 50 mile run with them on the handling is more planted and less crashy on uneven surfaces. So, in summary, if you've got a 350s with standard dampers and you want a sleeker look with benefits to handling too but aren't a track monster chasing 10ths and maybe can't afford 3-4k for Nitron 3 ways then I'd highly recommend! While I was there and despite the fact that I've now got an Alias intake system on order, I'd already invested in a K&N intake filter so I thought, in the meantime might as well pop it in. In review, after removing the cardboard waffle Toyota filter it definitely seems to improve throttle response and the engine sounds a little throatier. It's not night and day but definitely noticeable. I'll be heading back soon for my new tyres with larger front cross section so that'll probably lift the nose a tad but that's no bad thing as it'll only be a few mils
  44. 1 point
    I often wonder how such finely honed, definitive driver's cars emerge from such a chaotic process. Through good times and bad, somehow, the largely unappreciated brilliance keeps rolling out of the factory gates. Either Lotus will instantly take over the world with the injection of some proper investment or, for whatever reason, if you take away the madness, the genius goes with it too. Chaos seems to be strangely related to the creative process in other pursuits - art, music, film. Usually with other art forms when you take away the crazy you lose the spark. You get the disappointing more commercial 3rd album. Very different to making cars I know but just putting it out there! I ordered white and red twin stitching on my Evora, mistakenly thinking that to be the car's signature colours. It turns out it's silver and red, all the other cars have silver and red stitching, silver and red decals. Lotus were very fair about it and offered to re-do the car but when I saw it I liked it and was happy to keep it. A happy accident aka serendipity. Might be another case of that with the Daytona Blue? I probably wouldn't have ordered it either but when I saw Bibs Evora SR in that colour it was just WOW.
  45. 1 point
    Nothing wrong with a Type R. This is our everyday Blends in nicely!!
  46. 1 point
    Similar to the often seen press image but a slightly different angle shown on the 007 FB page.............. BTW did anyone else see the 2026 Winter Games are to be held in Milan/Cortina? I wonder if that means the FYEO Skating Rink will get a refurb?
  47. 1 point
    It's one of the two copies originally in the US.
  48. 1 point
    Ahoy Gents. thought i'd share some pics and learnings from my recent road trip in the Esprit. Route was Essex > Brussels > Luxembourg > Black Forest (Germany) > Liechtenstein > Lake Como (italy) > Paris > Essex Car was an absolute dream with no issues throughout the trip. I was particularly impressed with how cool the car stayed even in the super hot Italian days and stand still traffic. Only slight niggle is the windscreen wiper (slow speed) sometimes takes a while to turn off but im sure this is just a sloppy connection in the lever. We favored the twisty turny mountain passes over the shortcuts and tunnels and although some corners were a bit hairy it was well worth it for the views. The car has a non-standard exhaust on it and just sounds amazing through the hillside tunnels and small streets. The car was in pretty decent mechanical condition when i bought it, with the main issue being poor tuning and a few age related issues where the car hasn't been in regular use. We changed all fluids although both oil and coolant were decent but better to be safe. I fitted a new fuel filer, spark plugs and checked all ignition items which were in decent condition already. Tuned the carbs over the course of a few hours of slight changes but we got it spot on as it pulls smoothly with no hesitation, but also not running too rich as quieter on the motorways. Didn't loose any fluids or need to top anything up. so a huge success for the old boy.
  49. 1 point
    don't forget the better clutch and different flywheel, the 380 upwards also have a gearbox oil cooler, also the proper spoilers that the 350 doesn't have, Probaly lots more but I cant be bothered to think about it too long!!! The other issue is car value come trade in time, cars NEVER recover the upgrade costs come trade in
  50. 1 point
    I'm going to try the syringe method too, . I've just picked some up from the car park behind the railway station but I may have to change the contents as I'm not sure that 'Heroin Brown' is the colour to go with, .


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