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Everything posted by CHANGES

  1. ERR .. No that's definitely not to high .. in fact it about how they are to be fair .. On the SE you should have a drop out relay that stops the warning light coming on below 1500 RPM So that needs looking at also .. I would expect you have a corrupted signal between the two sensors within the one unit.. Its not unusual to see low oil pressure at tick over hence the drop out relay to stop the light coming on .. 30 PSI at tick when hot is quite presentable , I would prefer to see 60 psi from 2000 rpm up when hot.. But with an engine of age its not bad as they go.. Fix the gauge stop worrying and enjoy the Esprit experience..
  2. @RobinB5 Thank you for taking the time to read the post. The tools I used were very much old school algorithms/ equations. However when I was consulted by Alunox and noticed their primaries were the same size as my calculations we formed a mutual interest. How Alunox arrived at the sizes was not discussed. I must stress the calculations I used gave only an initial approximation to work from , as constant variable pulsing flow has its challenges.. We also needed to consider the pressure waves travelling in front of each pulse at circa 750 mph and how they react/ invert or nullify within the design. On top of all that you need to take into account the velocity as this will determine the low pressure zone on the back of each pulse and how it interacts with any pressure waves at certain RPM.. Because we have a constantly increasing and decreasing volume, pulse sizes /pressures and velocities , a full range of calculations are needed . The size of the Primary tube are so important to get correct to cover the full range of flow needed without creating to much or to little back pressure. To much can cause detonation, poor cylinder evacuation , excessive EGT and drop in performance .. To little can cause a lack of velocity again effecting cylinder evacuation and VE.. Its only when you do high volume flow practical testing you start to refine the calculations and get a feel for how its going to pan out.. .. But as stated this does not account for pulse flow , that gets calculated in after.. It was only when I introduced the Volumes my engine was going to produce in comparison to std unit that we had a difference in sizing.. this was at the collectors/ secondaries.. As the pulses converged two into one the original Alunox set up was to restricted for my engine at high RPM . This would cause the pulses to compress and their velocity would drastically increase . This in turn would introduce back pressure, the siphoning effect on the collector would then be drastically reduced or cancelled . This is where my design on the collectors came in .. they were sized to create a consistent flow dynamic without stepping up so much as to introduce unwanted pressure wave inversion. I was also using single scroll turbo so the intersection needed better flow streamlining. A couple of pics following will show how that area changed.. I must say with all the computer modeling tools/ programs available , it will make this sort of design quicker and easier to quantify. Interestingly I part used Fluid Dynamics when calculating the induction side , the computations seemed to suit the application better. However Just taking the manifolds and measuring flow comparisons will give you very little useful data for reasons previously stated.. You must also use the given engines exhaust volume to produce the test range parameters, remembering the exhaust volume has a direct correlation with induction performance/ boost / VE etc.. In short its one huge balancing act... Good luck with you studies.
  3. On the 1990 SE model, you can undo the hose from the underside of the engine bay swirl tank. (the large round cylinder one). By undoing a few clips securing this hose you can guide it down to a suitable bowl or receptacle under the Esprit. Initial water loss is slight and once in position you can undo the air bleed on the radiator and the system will drain effectively with very little mess at a nice pace.. If you are intending removing the engine then all the hoses will need disconnecting anyway so the choice is yours.. I just hate masses of coolant on the floor so use this method. I find radiator the drain plug messy as the coolant tends to track along the rad housing tray and end up dribbling everywhere.. Hope that helps..
  4. I'm sorry if i offended you Chris it was not my intention.. What i was trying to get across , maybe a little bluntly, is £65 for any part on a classic car , or any car for that matter is 'cheap'. Yes you can buy thermostats for other cars for a few quid , but this is not any other car its a Lotus Esprit S3 turbo.. and the correct part appears to be £65 ... The price may seem inflammatory in comparison to similar units available, but until someone takes a similar unit and does comprehensive tests on flow capacity , temperature control, and construction compliance, then using one is a gamble.. I am sure Pete at PNM will have looked at alternatives as an option , he is extremely knowledgeable on this sort of thing, but does not seem to be offering the cheaper alternative part.. So there may be a reason for this ..... Phone him and ask why.. Beside all this, I can not help but come back to getting a correct major service part for a Lotus Esprit at only £65.., even if its just a thermostat . I feel this is the Bun and halfpenny syndrome, like so many you want the exotic classic mid engine'd super car but not the maintenance cost that goes with it.. I really do understand your gripe about similar parts being cheaper on other cars and it sucks, but it is what it is . Until someone of knowledge and reputation , tests and recommends a suitable alternative the use of such items will be speculation at best.. Far to many exotic classics fall foul of short cut cost saving parts ... Good luck with what ever you choose to do . My apologies again if passion puts the point over to strongly.
  5. I Just despair when i read things like this........ You have a multi £K classic car and you won't spend £65 on a crucial maintenance part...... You would rather shop around for a cheap alternative that may or may not work or even be compatible to save £50... If the part was not available i could understand , to keep the car running. But this is just cheap skate .... Buy the proper part fit with confidence and enjoy the ride... The alternative could cost you sooooo much more..
  6. Hi Bentzion, That is probably the most cost effective way of getting a bit more out of the std CWP . and the rest of the gears come to that. I would have probably looked into this as an option ,but as the 3.89 ratio was not right for my Esprit, it was time to develop a new stronger option. This new CWP will also have the Cryo treatment with shot peening and REM treatment to finish off.. To try and make sure we don't get any further G/box issues, the rest of the box inc. the GTO kit will be getting the same treatment. What will be interesting is to see how it effects the transmition loses , We managed to reduce them by 3.5% by using different oil, So using the data we have and comparing with the post REM treatment etc should show how the lower friction factors can further reduce these loses.. I am also interested to see how it effects the transmition temperature.
  7. Bending is an action where a colour coat is carried across into an adjacent panel and faded out without giving a hard edge.. You then apply clear coat over the repaired and blended panel . Now this is where it gets interesting... There are two main ways of doing this. 1.... Is to prep the whole of the blending panel with fine WD papers , fade the colour as far as needed to get best blend then clear coat whole panel to fully seal to an edge... 2.... Is to part prep the blending panel , fade the colour coat as short as possible , then apply clear coat just past the faded edge of the colour coat , then apply a blending clear coat across the edge of the clear coat into the blending panel fading out again.. Process 1... Requires full prep and removal of parts from the blended panel, to the same extent as the panel that was repaired next to it.. This involves a lot more time and cost. Because of this a lot of body shops do not use this method. Process 2 ... This only requires partial prep of the panel and usually involves masking out area's and parts. Only part of this panel will be painted leaving initially a virtually invisible soft edge somewhere in the middle of the panel.. This process is similar to that used by the smart repairers who fade out adjacent to the repair regardless of an edge ... The blending clear coat has high adhesive properties that allow it to stick to paint work that has no more preparation than spirit/panel wipe to remove wax's / silicons. Any polishing of this finish after application is very light, preferably none. This is because the soft edge will start to expose itself and then the more you polish it the more obvious it becomes. The down side of process 2... is it will eventually expose the soft edge, especially on cars polished a lot like our Esprit's .It is a process initially used by the trade to do a cheap repair to sell a car .. It was never mean't to last.. As processes and materials improved so did the quality. The insurance companies started to adopt it to reduce costs and it became more widely used with the birth of the smart repairers .. With the introduction of water based paints it became more widely used as the water based lacquer coats were not totally clear.. As a result a very slight yellow ting could give a slight colour discrepancy between panels , even on a process 1 application ... On the course i attended with the introduction of water based paints, we were told the only way around that was to used a blending clear and fade out.. So It has a market place , but should always be seen as a partial paint , not a proper paint. The only down side of process 1... is cost.. It is by far the best and in my opinion only way to repair paintwork properly. To get around the lacquer yellow ting in water based clear coat , we use blending clear coat up to an edge., or we use 2k clear coat instead. It should also be noted that the slight mismatches i refer to are only slight.. As a result general retail customers never really notice .. As i do my main work for the trade and classic customers , I have to be very aware because they will see anything that is not spot on.. It should also be noted that slight mismatches always seem to get worse with time . . So if you don't want to pay for the job twice , have it done right.. ££££..
  8. When you spray an undercoat colour it is part of the process. The top and undercoat amalgamate during this process. When the paint chips off, both coats chip as one. What you will see is the first none fully integrated substrate.. This could be a primer coat if not wet on wet painted or fully keyed during prep.. otherwise in the case of an Esprit the gel coat. The other factors you need to consider is as stated before , different paint manufacture use different pigmentation or metamerics to achieve a given result.. Some recommend undercoat other do not. However i have found some that don't recommend an undercoat colour match better with one. This is all down to years of experience and pre paint matching.. Any top body shop would do this before committing to an edge to edge match.. They would also advise edge to edge will never be perfect to the trained eye.... If you want to get a better idea of what i am talking about , just look at the colour match of bumpers to body on newer cars. Most of them don' t match.. Well I see it.. when i point it out to customers they only see it then not before , I find that weird but this is my trade. Anyway what i am trying to say is both of these parts are painted by the same manufacturer , but in some cases in a different factory. The same paint manufacture , the same process, the same undercoat, but still they don't all match.. Why .. could be a different paint batch , bit like matching wall paper.. or just painted by hand not robot, or maybe the addition of flex agent . So many variables.. But if the manufactures have this issue , you can see why body shops say blend on repairs now. .. Blending out is never an issue , how they blend out can be.. ..
  9. The mass confusion from innuendo , false news and scare stories etc, is the tool of the EU to unsettle and destabilise British politics. Its working ever so well.... because the media machine backed by the EU keeps fueling it... aaaaand people believe everything the hear/read... I read and are dismayed by the headlines regarding a No Deal Brexit PM being appointed then sabotaged by a parliamentary vote of no confidence , forcing a general election.. They will do this to stop a No Deal Brexit, but these same numpties voted against the EU deal TM negotiated . This is the only deal the EU was offering, NONE Negotiable.... Do these self righteous twits think that is going to change with just a new face in front of them ....... Dream on , the EU have all the cards why should they change their position.. BUT ... If a no deal is back on the table with a PM and goverment to back it , the EU will start to twitch... Then if we make it clear we are quite prepared to leave with a NO Deal as the inconvenience and upheaval is no worse than what the EU are offering, then the tables are turned.. Rest assured the EU will take it to the wire, they always do, so we will need a PM with a strong resolve to be prepared to stand by the convictions and leave with a NO Deal if needs be.. The only thing that is obvious to all is if a General Election is forced on us, then we are even deeper in the do do than before.. The Brexit situation will not have changed at all and our position in the EU weaker than ever from all points, with one possible and unlikely scenario.... The Brexit party... The Brexit party is a very under estimated element in all this, but has and is gaining more and more support from the people.. Lets face it , the people are the ones that vote.. Oh sorry i forgot , we did on the 23rd of june 2016.. But when that did not come out as the influential few expected look what happened.. It would be interesting to see response if Brexit Party became a political player and could influence policy.. They were very quickly dismissed by the media after the EU elections. However lets not forget , these devious underhand manipulators are very aware of the truth , They do understand the Brexit Party has a strong and growing following , should they get enough suitable people to stand as MP's along with a credible manifesto , they could be in with a shout. So be prepared for an instant vote of no confidence by parliament to be implemented the moment a new PM is appointed , (if a no deal supporter). This will be the only way they could minimise the Brexit Party threat, by not allowing it enough time to get fully organised.. So when you way up all the facts, what a bloody mess we are in . A self induced mess from our own democratically elected representatives who are supposed to uphold the will of the people. Conspiracy theorist can have a field day with all this . What is and has been going on behind closed doors is defiantly detrimental to the peoples wishes.. @C8RKH Threw dolly out with teddy , and the £550 in the post in case Rant not up to spec' .....
  10. It is all very corrupt. The people voted, the politicians voted, a law was passed, all to leave the EU.. ... All along a self serving group who did not agree with the democratic vote , who also happen to hold positions of influence , have done everything short of a treasonable act to overturn , discredit or sabotage the referendum result with lies , scare stories , false news and innuendo.. .. And so it goes on... The real truth about the whole situation is , we must leave .... that is what the vote said... Whether you voted for or against is irrelevant ... We as a people have always excepted a parliamentary election result , even when its a minority... You could always argue in these results more individual votes were cast for the party that technically lost the election , which has happened on many occasions.. In this referendum no such argument can be had, it could not have been more straight forward than one person one vote ... IN or OUT.. So why is it be disputed and why so difficult....? Well the EU along with the influential few don't want us to leave... So the deal they have put on the table is unreasonable ... In fact it is worse than staying in.. They have said this deal if non negotiable .... The only way out of that is no deal exit... But the influential few managed to take the NO Deal option off the table ... STALEMATE.... But we still have to satisfy the electorate or we will loose democracy... Notice I wrote SATISFY , not CON the electorate.. That is what it is coming to ... The EU and Remoaners are slowly being exposed for the evil, selfish, self serving manipulators they are . All they have and will achieve is disruption and distrust in the oldest democratic system.. Maybe that is their plan , I say this as the EU does not have publicly elected leaders , therefore dictates policy and law, whilst pretending to be democratic.. The UK was and always has been an independent force in the EU . Not that it has done us much good or given us the benefits other nation states have received.. It has seemed for a long time , especially since members from the Eastern block have swelled the numbers, even though they did not meet the strict criteria of EU membership, that the focus was on a federal socialist EU with free movement. ... I believe the UK voters were far more aware of this than the politicians realised and it played a far bigger part in the OUT vote than the other areas being hotly disputed.. .. I don't think anyone in the UK is anti Europe , we just don't want to be told by the EU what we can and can't do etc. There is a lot of smoke and mirrors about any deal .. The truth is the EU will only put a deal out that is good for them ... So the argument and discussion should be about the EU being awkward and blocking any reasonable deal we put on the table.. Net result is we leave without one big deal.. A no deal Brexit.. We can go on WTO , get a great trade deal with the USA , set no tariffs with the EU, then watch the EU come to us for deals to keep their trading relations alive with the UK before the rest of the world starts to supply what they have cheaper.... Or with the lifting of EU restriction , heaven forbid we start manufacturing and growing produce instead of buying it from the EU. Problem with all that is , it will cause lower unemployment, greater prosperity and a more versatile economy .... Not sure some people would be happy with that, !!!!! Rant over....
  11. I did not notice any news headlines when the high court overturned the action against Boris .. It would be interesting how many people still think Boris is facing charges in court.
  12. F---ME , is that the glow from the brake discs and turbo after one of your usual post service test drives.
  13. First test unit fitted and put through its paces in Jan 2013 , 6 1/2 years on, still going strong , The last 3 1/2 years without any support bracket fitted on this test Esprit ... 4 1/2 years the above observation / comment Over 100 units sold and fitted to the Esprit... A big Thank you To Alunox for the support ,manufacture and supply of this much needed alternative to the std unit .. 1st unit under test Jan 2013 Same unit after inspection and crack test pass, 2015 before re-wrapping..
  14. Yes just as @910Esprit said. Fiddley but very doable. You will need to remove a drive shaft or the turbo to allow the free movement required, most removed the turbo because it was easier , plus it was usually a bitch to get off the cast manifold. I always found the worst part was getting the old cast manifold off, especially when corroded.. As for the gaskets , the original turbo laminated gaskets were specifically fitted to allow for slip during uneven expansion and contraction of the cylinder head and cast manifold.. As the primary headers on the Alunox system are independent with slip joints, the mounting flange face to the head does not move.. This is why the composite compression gasket was supplied.. This does not mean you should not use the original gaskets, just you have a choice.. However when you consider the cost of new original laminated gaskets for no gain you must ask the question why use them .. The only point i could make about the cheaper compression gasket is after fitting , they should be re-torqued after going through a few heat cycles. A periodical check when servicing is also advisable , this would also apply to any gasket and manifold. We have seen far to many 910 manifolds with missing studs and nuts over the years because they don't get service checked.. Fitting whilst engine in or out is more dependent on the facilities and abilities of the fitter.. Personally i take the fiddley out of it pull the donkey and do a full service at the same time , belts , pump , F/R seals , clutch etc etc. so much easier on the stand. When you know what you are doing you can take the engine and box out in the same time it takes to just remove an old cast exhaust manifold in situ.. ..
  15. Mark, I may not have explained my situation that clearly. I am not using the stock ECU.. As a result I can look at exact figures without being effected by any tolerances written in the program to cater for discrepancies within the TPS.. This is how we were able to identify the fluctuation in the TPS.. . What i was trying to point out is the std TPS fluctuates and the std ECU caters for this within its program, it will not be identifiable by your down load data as the ECU will only show a a given value within the tolerance at any set point within the TPS position as per the mapping installed.. It is only when it goes outside of these that you will see it.. The problem is the TPS signal fluctuates with temperature so is inconsistent, you will need to gather data at time of problem. Even then it may be that it is just on the edge of tolerance producing the tuning issue possibly combined with other factors. Micro adjustments of the TPS position may elevate your problem .. It is also worth noting that excepting the Throttle is fully open because the TPS say's 100% is not enough.. You really should access the throttles and set/balance them all for full range with the peddle first , insuring fully open and closed are obtained. Then set the TPS position accordingly.. You are very limited to what else you can do.. A lot of this is why I and others have gone with a stand alone ECU system. We can isolate these areas and adjust the ECU to the TPS values which is so much more accurate.. These were the 28 -31 figures I was referencing . Sorry if i confused your thinking.. Dave
  16. Mark, No the 28 and 31 were just scale settings within the ECU on the throttle fully closed .. 96 was throttle fully open giving a scale range of 68 increments for tuning .... When we moved to the more advanced Penny and Giles contacless unit the scale was 22 closed and 115 fully open , this gave us a 93 increment scale to tune from.. This was not only consistent but a lot finer scale allowing a more refined tuning parameter.. I do not have the voltage at my upper and lower points , but the standard setting should be in the technical files, I am sure @sailorbob or someone will step in with the std reading you should be within.. make sure the TPS is set correct first. No its sealed.. That will be because the variations will be lost within the tolerance allowed within the std ECU .. You would need to power up the TPS in isolation and measure the values at set points, then change the temp to that of engine bay and re-measure, that should expose the variation.. As far as the surge in low speed revs. could be because the TPS is set just outside one of the tolerance points at closed.. or a poor unit that exceeds the tolerance within the ECU .. Try micro adjustments or a new TPS. These always give problems if not perfect..
  17. Hi Mark, During the tuning process I undertook on the 910 engine , we found deficiencies in the std TPS. The data we downloaded showed the values changed with temperature.. What we found was the fully closed value (in our case) of 28 would increase to 31 when engine at working temp.. Because I was running stand alone ECU i could monitor this in real time. At first i was assumed it was the TPS at fault. As a result i purchased another, the results were worse... Because this replacement TPS was after market i assumed that was poor quality so purchased an OEM unit.. Result no change.. I eventually had 5 brand new OEM unit to test...... The results were very poor , in fact the one I had originally fitted was the best of the bunch. some went as far as 5 points out... So how and why did this become such an issue for me and not so much for std Esprit. ? When setting up My stand alone ECU we set the fully closed at 28 . When engine temp raised and effected the closed value the ECU assumed the throttle was open by the new value introducing fuel and tuning modes accordingly. This in turn effected the HC's etc which the ECU also tried to compensate. The result was a poor inconsistent tick over.. The only immediate solution was to write in an error factor to the mapping.. We set it up as throttle closed between > 28 and < 31, this gave an error factor of 3 point at any one point but addressed the problem and the engine ticked over as it should and produced the 400+ bhp.. As with all things on things on this project I was not going to leave it like that... The main reason for this was the error factor through the throttle range .. To memory the range was 28 to 96 witch gave a scale of 68 with a 3 point error, this means at any one point the TPs could be 4.4% out I addressed this info with an informed person who told me such an error has been programmed into the standard ECU to compensate for the discrepancies.. . Which is why the std Esprit did not show and issues.. This does not change the fact of a tolerance in the set up circa 5% error on tuning values because of the TPS . So we eventually fitted a contactless TPS which gave NO fluctuations in value at all... The results were instant, you could hear and feel the difference at tick over, with a far smoother progression during revving.. The tuning data feed back improved dramatically and so completed that part of the package.. The reason for detailing this is so you can understand when adjusting your std TPS what you are dealing with and that some may be worse than others, a minor adjustment may be more significant than you would realise.. The tick over on some Esprit 4 pots is better than others although they are all a bit lumpy , I expect the TPS set up along with built in error tolerance has a lot to do with it.. Dave
  18. With respect to you and your painter , the code is only one part.. The fuel flap should have been enough for them to get it a lot closer than that.. It will never be spot on to the trained eye which is why we blend. As @Steve V8 said if its not correct first time you do it over till its as close as possible, before it goes back to the customer.. Matching repainted cars is a bit of a black art.. and as @Barrykearley said Norfolk Mustard is one of the most tedious. Along with some reds they can be metamerically challenging , these can match perfect in shop lights then miss-match in day light.. This is why some cars look a completely different colour in sodium street lights. I really hope you can get this sorted @LotusFella without to much hassle..
  19. Yes but get them to repaint and tint it closer than that first, To be fair what they have done match wise is a disgrace ... If they are not up to the job take it elsewhere rather than risking it.. You can only blend so much and the worse the match the further the blend has to go.. And that what you have is bad, trust me if you can see it in a photo then its bad . !!! Also get away from the Masserati 496 , The metamerics won't be right.. Tint from Lotus code using various paint manufacturers ... The body shop should know all this , If not move elsewhere , all paint jobs start with prep , without that they all fail... and getting a close match is prep.. I still can not understand why they put the clear coat on when the base was so far out.. One can only assume they did not check it during the process, just went on paint chip match... If so that's Lazy.. Then why did they give it back to you like that , it should have gone back in and been re-done.... knowing this I would be asking what else they did how it was prepped and what product was used.... We see far to many Lotus's with peeling / micro blister paint as a result of using cheap product and bad prep . The correction work then costs twice or three time what it should of cost in the first place to correct it. Sorry if i am ranting on , but this is my trade and i get frustrated when others do this sort of work and expect the customer to except it and pay for the privilege..
  20. I think what Chris was trying to say was the previous owner had the car painted and he was not sure of paint code... so finding a match was a lottery.. Chris , When I get Classics in like this we need to asses so many factors .. Finding a colour that matches as you have with the Masserati 496 is very hit and miss.. Expecting an edge to edge match in those circumstances is very optimistic.. It may be that it is the Azure blue or the original as per code that has bee previously applied , but the process used or the undercoat applied has influenced the shading... This is very common which is why we blend out even when the colour is close.. The flop you refer to will not apply on two stage metallic its just an excuse .. What will apply is the paint process and whether or not the base is drop coated or wet coated and ratio thinned. All of these can effect shading.. Another influence can be paint manufacturer , the same colour from say, Pro Spray will be different to Octoral or Sickens. etc.. If they are a pro body shop I would of expected them to get closer than that ... I would of test sprayed and tinted till it was as close as possible.. Point of note, these shade of blues are normally painted over Black otherwise they are too bright.. I could go on and on , saying how it should and could be done , but your body shop should have done that before starting the job.. It is not difficult to do this correctly you just need the right people .. when paying good money out you should expect good work back....... If I can be of any further help PM me..
  21. And I thought the Mary Rose was bad, !!!!
  22. 7/8'' is big.. i believe the S4s was 3/4'' (.75) the SE was 5/8'' (.625).. This was to compensate for the shorter peddle travel on the later Esprit.. You may find the 5/8''on the S4s set (short peddle ) will crunch into reverse when warm and be notchy on other gears unless other mods been done .. The 7/8'' may have been fitted to give better disengagement , but it will give a very heavy peddle.. A braided clutch line with a 3/4'' MC should be the in the Zone I would imagine so but its been a few years since i played with single plate clutch. The last one was a special variant done by AP which slipped on the dyno at 450 ft lbs.. The disc in the pic was part of a Helix set up with the cerametalic paddle good for 410 ft lbs .. Yes the set up i am using is with the Renault 21 spline as per the UN1 , but all application can be facilitated by just having the disc splines specified for use.. The really sad thing is the main contact with AP racing has retired and we can no longer get specials done direct or in the same way even as a trader. We all have to go through a registered AP agent now , They will not go to far off the already proven spec's or specials on file, then only if they have the parts left in stock to make them .. delivery time is also very long now.. I was very lucky to get mine all sorted before things changed. Not sure how i would deal with it now , possibly back to Helix to get the one touch Trader service and weird spec's.
  23. I would start there with the UJ , but look for a seizure /semi seizure rather than slack .. Try spraying them wit release fluid. They may well then go slack after freeing up.. either way with a UJ fault , change them for new. ..
  24. I agree totally , but only to a point.. as i said in my earlier post use of quality connectors will prevent the above happening.. Most of the basic couplers are for use with crimped ( Pirtek) system , These do blow off when used with clips as not designed for that application.. A very common mistake made by people who are not aware. . However their are specific push in lock type that work just as well especially when used with quality clip as well.. They cost a bit more and tend to be more from motor sport or hydraulic suppliers.. Pics 1 & 2 is what you should be using pic 3 the type people use and get into trouble with, always remember a cheaper component can end up costing the most..
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