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Everything posted by Likuid

  1. I took my 400 to a Cars & Coffee and when I was pulling at at the end of the event a guy yelled from the crowd "its just a Toyota". Even at an event celebrating cars people hate for no reason.
  2. I agree, my only point is, if you want to attract new buyers you have to give them something that will attract them. Better prices than the competition is one way of doing it. However, again, Lotus has a lot of hurdles already in their way. Matching your competition in price and performance doesn't completely solve those issues. You have to beat them at least in one of those categories (preferably both). So unless this new production facility allows Lotus to sell cars for so much cheaper than the same in-class competition, then I feel the better approach would be beating them in performance. However, in the end, I agree with you. Based on what we know at this time it sounds unlikely the Emira will not be over 500HP. So unless Lotus pulls a rabbit out of their hat in July and either shows off some performance numbers we weren't expecting or great pricing I think the Emira may suffer a similar fate as the Evora. Might sell a bit better, because I do expect at least better tech and more modern looks.
  3. I think Windle said Lotus was selling 1k - 1.5k cars (total) a year. I would hardly call that strong selling. If the Elise was doing so well for Lotus at this point they would have tried to figure out a way to continue it and get it U.S. approved. If I were Lotus I would go for performance over price. I don't see how it makes business sense for such a small car manufacturer to fight for the sub £90k scraps with companies that have the ability to produce the amount of cars in a day that Lotus can in a year. I do agree though. If you are offering a 430HP car then you are going to have need much more competitive pricing.
  4. Bingo. Beat the competition. Its already very hard to beat them on price due to Lotus production capabilities and economies of scale, so you have to at least beat them in performance. Its easier to get away with being more expensive if you beat the competition while you are at it. One big issue with Lotus (IMO) is perceived value. Evora GT is a great car, but on paper its value doesn't seem to match up well against others in that price bracket and since your dealership network is poor you can't get anyone to come in to even test drive the car, so you have to entice them with some bait. Clearly beating a similarly priced Cayman in a track test is something that will help. I bet there are many people in the market for a sports car that watched an Evora GT review and once the price and performance were mentioned lost interest quickly. The remaining people still interested looked up the closest Lotus dealer and found out tis a 3 hour drive from their house.
  5. @jimichangagood point on China. That may be a market they could do well in, I don't know. As for U.S., I don't see it. U.S. seems more HP obsessed than many other countries and that's not often something Lotus offer. U.S. also has more access to the C8 as well. Honestly, and people will hate me for saying it, but if Lotus wants to give the Emira a much better chance the top of the line HP number needs to start with a 5. However, knowing what we know so far about the powertrain that seems very unlikely, at least at launch. A $120k (USD) sports car in the U.S. not at least offering 500HP without the cache of Porsche and such a poor dealership network is going to be a very hard sell. The C8 has about 500HP and (reasonably equipped) in the 70s, 60% the possibly cost of the Emira with a mid engine V8. I mean the new 400Z is starting at $35k and will have 400HP. Emira could be 3.5x times that price with barely more HP. Sure it will be more exotic, mid-engine, etc., but I just see it being hard to sell a sub 500HP at the rumored price with all the hurdles Lotus has to overcome, especially in the U.S. Of course we here on the forum understand HP number isn't everything, but for many people its an easy way to compare cars. This is why I personally thought Lotus should have moved slightly up market with the Emira, they are trying to compete with companies that have way more resources in that bracket. The unfortunate reality a lot of people buy sports cars as status symbols. Lotus can't scoff at those people. They need "posers" just as much, if not more, than enthusiasts, to buy their cars.
  6. Many people on these Emira posts confuse what they want with what sells cars. Weight and handling feel mean almost nothing to most people, even those in the market for sports cars. Those are just bonuses. The Evora basically received nothing but praise from reviewers on how great it was to drive and it sold terribly, even by Lotus standards. I want Lotus to do well, but I also want them to keep making cars that interest me. Sometimes these two things conflict. While the Emira may be a car I am interested in. Based on what we know so far, there is nothing that makes me think its going to sell well. Better than Evora? Probably, but with all the issues Lotus has (dealership network, brand cache, brand association, reliability concerns, etc.) I don't see how an mini-Evija looking, two seater Evora, with more tech and maybe a little more power is going to make much of a difference in sales numbers. I mean that sounds good to me, but is that going to make Joe-Porsche consider driving 3 hours to a Lotus dealership to try out the Emira? Doubt it. Honestly all it kind of tells me if that the Emira probably didn't receive that much of the Geely investment and is truly just a bridge car to get to the ultimate Geely goal of Lotus electric sports cars. Hope I am proven wrong.
  7. Likuid

    Lotus Emira

    Okay hear me out. I know this sounds kind of crazy and would contradict what some people have been told, but I am not sure if Lotus themselves (not talking about dealers) has officially stated if the I4 would be the lower end version. Maybe I am wrong. Considering the rumor is the I4 comes with a DCT only and the V6 is manual or torque converter auto, most likely that from the current V6 range, is it possible that the I4 is actually the more powerful version of the car? I don't think this is completely unheard of in the car world. Didn't the Mustang have a I4 turbo version which was more powerful than the V6 entry level model at one point? Maybe they still do. Is there an I4 that Lotus would have access to that would be suitable for actually producing 450+ HP reliably? I know its super unlikely, but it does seem like a Lotus-thing to do.
  8. We'll see if that deadline actually happens. I have a feeling it will eventually get pushed back, but point still stands. For now its what we know. To my knowledge U.S. doesn't have such a deadline (yet), but I don't see Lotus selling a U.S.-only car unless it was very successful in U.S.
  9. I kind of agree, but would be nice to see what Lotus could do keeping that passion along with some significant investment. I assume Lotus' plan is to sell cars to new customers, not just impress people on the Lotus forum. Whindle said they are looking to go from 1k cars a year to 5k - 10k. Now maybe he doesn't expect that just from the Emira, but honestly I would be shocked (based on what we have heard so far) the Emira will sell that well. Lotus' biggest issue is their dealership network. To get a better dealership network you need cars that sell. They are replacing 3 models with 1 model. To get people interested in your cars where they may need to drive 2 to 3 hours to a dealer you got to get their attention. So far nothing (besides possibly the looks) sounds overly exciting and I current own a 400 and owned 2 Lotus before that. Hopefully the Emira can do this, but I have my doubts as it stands now. I don't doubt the Emira will be a good, maybe even great car. However, IMO, so was the Evora and that was a commercial failure, even by Lotus' standards. All the modern Toyota based Lotus have grown in power over their life. Evora gained about 50% more power right? Not saying the Emira needs to gain that much, but if the Emira is using the same V6 as the 311/Evora/Exige V6 and launched with 450HP+ where will its room to grow (power-wise) be? Maybe Lotus has unlocked more potential from the V6. That would be great.
  10. I agree, but I think some people were hoping, this being Lotus' last ICE, it would be something newer with more investment put into it. From the sounds of it, this wasn't the case, at least when it comes to the power train since it sounds like their is little to no change to the engine and transmission. Obviously you are being a bit more pragmatic, but I think other Lotus fans were hoping for something more. I have a feeling Geely didn't want a lot of their investment going into an ICE car at all, so this is probably more of a Lotus project using whatever resources they can to make it happen.
  11. The one by the Evija next to the Lotus Tech center building looks to be the Emira (its a rendering). The teaser with the 3 cars under cover we thought may all be 131 cars. We thought Lotus may release 3 different cars under the 131 chassis, but so far that doesn't look to be the case, especially since they hammered it home that the Emira was the last ICE in that video and interviews. So we have no idea what the other 2 cars are. They look larger than the Emira, my only guess is they are future electric cars. Although both of them being larger is kind of confusing if so. Lotus did recently trademark the name Elevo, which sounds like an electric car name to me, who knows? Unless this is all a ruse and they will actually be announcing 3 cars and not just the Emira in July, but I find that very hard to believe.
  12. Lotus isn't going to sell more cars matching Porsche's price and (on-paper) performance. They need to beat them by a clear margin in at least one of those categories. Lotus just doesn't have the cache or dealership network to demand compromise from their customers. So, unless Geely convinced a bunch of Volvo dealers to also service (and possibly sell) Lotus they are going to have to bring more to the table to pull in customers. Otherwise the Emira will be another Evora. Great car, terrible sales.
  13. Honestly I am unsure what news is legit about the Emira. Most websites did articles that don't even quote anyone from Lotus, but state things as if they were fact. I have seen articles saying it uses Toyota V6 and another almost same day saying it doesn't use a Toyota engine. Honestly I am not even sure why its even to Lotus's advantage to ever say anything at this point, unless its something that is going to create hype. Telling the press "yeah there will be a Toyota V6 version in manual and torque converter auto" doesn't really fill people with excitement for the car. Makes most people think its just a differently looking 2-seater Evora. At this point unless its a press release directly from Lotus I think I am just going to wait and see what July brings.
  14. The car better be pretty light if the entry level is 300HP. I am just not convinced that Lotus can make a car light enough at that price point with current safety regulations. Hope I am wrong. One article, I don't remember which one now, claimed "373kw" which is 500HP for the V6. Honestly if the top of the line Emira doesn't come with 500HP+ or doesn't lose some noticeable weight over the Evora it will be a big fail by Lotus IMO. Evora 2.0. Maybe a great car to drive, terrible sales. Especially if the car costs north of £85k. That said, I have no idea what the Emira is. Is it more in the Elige class or the Evora class? Or something in-between. Obviously that makes a difference. As does price. All I know if Lotus brings out another car that most people consider underpowered for its price it won't sell. The Lotus name alone doesn't have the cache to sell cars, they got to bring something more to the table. Considering the Emira may be the only car they have for a few years on the market, if it sells poorly that's not going to help the dealership network at all, which means even less sales.
  15. The car appears to have some major haunches on the back. So far everything of the teaser images looks great IMO. Looks weren't my major concern though as Lotus has rarely made a car I thought was ugly. I know those test mule images of the Evora with the fender flares makes me think the Emira may be wider than the Evora? I wonder if that means wider tires, which means more power. I know I have been somewhat negative with the information I have heard, but I am still excited to see what the Emira brings to the table. I have put of my future car shopping until then.
  16. I have been saying this for a long time about the 131. Lotus needs to make a big splash with it, otherwise it will just be another Evora. Great car, terrible sales. So far, based on what I am hearing, no matter how great the car may look it sounds like its going down the "another Evora" route. I am sure it will be a very good car, but it will most likely be under powered compared to the competition. Using a torque converter for the V6 auto tells me not a lot of effort was really put into the Emira in-regards to the powertrain. I know its supposed to be a "bridge" car, but I was hoping it being Lotus's last ICE they would try to make it the best Lotus by far. I own a 400 auto, while its very good for a torque converter it will still be seen as a negative unless Lotus figures out someway to make a torque converter shift as quickly and smoothly as a DCT (which I am not even sure if that is even physically possible). Another problem which has plagued Lotus for ages is weak transmissions. Would be nice if the Emira had a very solid tranny that can take a lot more power than the current Evora. This opens up more potential for Lotus to unlock down the road a long with after market. People saying "no one cares about the auto" as an excuse is very short sighted IMO. People do care about them, especially in the U.S., but they expect more than a torque converter in such a car. It will also be very confusing to the consumer that the I4 has a DCT and the V6 doesn't. Lotus needs to sell cars and if the Emira does well it means it may either be on market for a longer time or Lotus may reconsider it being their last ICE. I hope my feelings are misguided, but so far nothing I have heard over the last few days has made me excited for the Emira.
  17. The teaser image from months ago appeared to have 3 different cars under covers. However, it appears the 131 is only going to be the Emira. I doubt they would make the Emira look completely different depending on configuration. Those other 2 cars must be electric cars or something.
  18. I know its not literally a re-skinned Evora, but none of this makes me confident in the end product. Its disappointing to me (if true) because it makes it seem that really not a lot of investment was put into the Emira. Keeping the torque converter for the V6 auto (which I assume is one already in the GT) kind of makes it seem that way. I was hoping being the last Lotus ICE it would go out with a bang, not a whimper. I guess we will see in July.
  19. Yikes, not great news IMO. Makes it sound like a re-skinned Evora at this point.
  20. I am still excited to see what the 131 is. From the sneak peaks we got, it look like it will be a good looking car, but that was the least of my worries. This video did not increase my hype for the car. Some actual specs , prices, and/or photos would have increased them significantly. I just don't understand dragging it out. I get you want to do a big press reveal and covid might be hindering that, but honestly I think its more important to get some information out at this point. There can still be plenty to reveal at the event.
  21. I'll have to take your word for it, I can't get back to that part of the video without watching the whole part before that.
  22. I know Porsche does it, so do many others. Not sure if Lotus ever has and maybe it will be better for them, I just don't personally like it. Didn't they say in the video that the engine(s) would be from a new partner? Plus an article just came out a few days ago saying the V6 will not be a Toyota. This is very confusing, I don't understand why they just can't announce some information.
  23. V6 EXCLUSIVE DETAILS: It will have a V6 as an option. I am not a fan of car models that have super large range of price points relative to their base price. I have a hard time believing the bottom of the line Emira will be half the cost of the top of the line. If that's the case they should be two different cars, look a bit different and should not under the same model name.
  24. It was obviously mainly for investors. Dang. So all we learned: Seems the 131 is only one car model (no idea what other 2 in that teaser pic are) Its called Emira It will not be using a Toyota engine Looks kind of like a smaller Evija from those sneak peaks I did not expect them to fully reveal the car, but I did expect quite a bit more. How about some specs or something to keep us interested until July.
  25. Likuid

    Morse Code...

    Yup, seems like that was just an investor video.
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