Posts posted by Likuid
There are a few design points I am not super huge on, but overall its one of the better looking SUVs I have seen. Way better than Urus IMO looks-wise.
Honestly the interior looks very nice, kind of wish the Emira's interior looked as good.
7 minutes ago, gregs24 said:
Not so sure. The K series nearly killed Lotus with warranty work, the Toyota engines have virtually no claims. Car companies cannot afford unreliable anything.
I didn't say unreliable. I said performance over reliability. Its not a binary. Most likely the Toyota is more reliable than the AMG, but they are still using the AMG. My point was I don't think Lotus has much say in it, because Geely has little interest in ICE.
Also, Lotus has been on a ropes for a long time and using the K series is an example of a company that is more desperate than anything. A case of beggars not being able to be choosers. They got lucky that Toyota allowed them to even use that engine at all, but that engine is already pretty much maxed out at 430HP without updating internals and gearbox which they will never do. IMO its a dead end and I think Lotus knows this, but it made it for an easy (and affordable) transition.
I think it has more to do with Geely not being interested in investing much into ICE than it does because of the reliability. Of course Lotus knowing that engine well is probably a reason too and that's the why the V6 is coming out first, but I don't believe for a second if Lotus had access to something with better performance over reliability they wouldn't be using that instead.
front looks more rounded and less jagged than urus
Pics look good so far.
I wonder if the length of the video is any indication of its 0 - X acceleration?
I think it may have actually been 1.3 to 0.3, but point still stands basically a second faster.
4 hours ago, C8RKH said:
@MJON - I know several Evora 4XX owners on here that have the V6 with the IPS box. I am sure they will be along to tell you what a wonderful car it is. I'm a 4xx manual driver but have spent some time on really fast road trips on the Isle of Man with 4xx IPS owners. I can tell you right now, that those 4XX IPS cars were quick and also the IPS cars makes the drivers sound like gods. Please do not listen to naysayers who don't have a 4XX IPS, let the owners tell you themselves, I do believe very few, if any, regret it!
You're right. I owned a Evora S auto and currently own a 400 auto. I think a lot of people think the 4XX auto is basically a slightly faster shifting S1 auto. Its so much faster you wouldn't even know it was the same gearbox. That combined with the better exhaust note its almost night and day. Its pretty amazing what Lotus did with that torque converter. My only issue with the torque converter on the Emira is how confusing it is having a DCT on the i4 and torque converter on the V6.
The problem from what I hear is that Lotus would have to get the V6 re-federalized if they make any internal changes. That plus I assume its using the Audi (I think) DCT that JUBU sells for like $25k or something for the Evora.
As I mentioned in other posts, its unlikely Geely was interested in investing much money into the Emira's powertrain, thus why we are probably stuck with the V6 (for good or bad) as it was in the Evora, I doubt you will see the V6 go higher than 430HP in the Emira unless they can find another gearbox. The AMG is probably their only chance of producing something over 430HP for the Emira.
2 hours ago, Simon Bateman said:
I think Lotus are a bit fixated with taking Cayman sales and as such, around 416ps is comparable with even a GT4.
The consensus seems to be that the engine as standard can be coaxed to around 475ps, which would then compete with a GT3, but thereafter, it would need 550ps + to be a true junior supercar.
In between 475ps and 550ps, it's sort of marooned between a rock and hard place in terms of market placement.
Clearly at that point the investment required to source a new engine or modify the internals of the current one, just don't stack up.
The 311 used the same V6 with 450HP I believe, but used a sequential gearbox. I don't believe Lotus will take the V6 past 430HP in the Emira with the current gearboxes. Just because Komotec is squeezing 475HP out of it doesn't mean Lotus will. Lotus probably doesn't believe the engine and gearbox are reliable much past that point. Maybe they have something up their sleeve, but to my knowledge any change to the internals of the engine would require re-federalization which is expensive.
6 hours ago, ramjet said:
I was thinking about the power thing which keeps seeming to come up.
Maybe Lotus have started with lower power for a twofold reason.
1) Attract people to the car who may not have ever driven something this powerful.
2) Possibly the Emira is much more dynamically superior as far as the handling goes, that the power of the engine is even more useable for more of the time you are driving and so does not need to be some >430hp figure?
Everyone keeps saying that the way a Lotus handles, the way it makes you smile etc. are more important than 0~60 figures etc.
I am not saying that people should leave their deposits in place. To each their own.
If there is an expectation for people to finalise a deposit before being able to test drive the car, that causes a bit of a quandary.
I just hope that people that do have deposits in, don't then third guess themselves and want to hop back in line. That would be having them wait for a much longer time.
Honestly I think it has everything to do with Geely not wanting to invest into the powertrain much. Part of me thinks the only reason they are keeping the V6 is because of the manual option. If Geely gave Lotus the money to put a 500HP engine in the Emira I am sure Lotus would have. When it comes to ICE I think they are working with what they can. The power (or lack there of IMO) is the only reason my name isn't down for an Emira. I love everything else about it. While I doubt they will ever take the V6 beyond 430HP, here's hoping the AMG sees some higher numbers in the future. I may go and try some other non-Lotus cars for awhile and maybe come back home once the Emira matures a bit.
You have to wonder if anything was done with the gear box, either modifying or a different one. Lotus claims the Emira is the car that will bring them more mainstream. A creaky diesel engine gear box from a delivery van isn't really that. People put up with the in the Evora, not sure Joe-Porsche will. If they did modify or replace hopefully it is stronger and allows more potential from the V6 down the road before it leaves the market (or for the after market).
Does the Toyota engine really cost Lotus anymore than the AMG? I would almost think the AMG costs more than the Toyota. Toyota is significantly older tech and much more mass produced. I mean I heard Geely owns 10% of MB, but I wonder if they were able to get the AMG for any significant discount? If the V6 powertrain is exactly the same as the Evora (which I assume it is) why would it be $20k more? It sounds like the AMG has more potential than the Toyota. So why are we paying more for an engine with less potential and possibly costs Lotus less money?
I mean this is all very confusing and I hope it is cleared up in September. If the AMG is expected to eventually surpass (and eventually completely replace) the V6 in performance why even bother hamstringing it to be under the V6 to start? Why not just make the AMG the higher performance version from the beginning? Its the more "prestigious" brand and has the more modern transmission (DCT).
I mean he really didn't change that much. Not sure the 4 exhaust or taillight changes add anything, having the body color strip under the black area on the side actually looks pretty good.
The AMG throws a real kink in my plans. I wanted to get a manual Emira, but if the AMG will eventually exceed the V6 in power and completely replace it (which sounds like is the plan someday) I am not sure what to do. If I am losing the manual then I would rather it be DCT than torque converter, but at the same time the sound of the V6 and having one of the last manual production cars that may ever be made is appealing.
Its mounted exactly like the Evora's engine. Yes its mounted transversely so it makes it appear off center.
I just want to say I called it that the AMG may be the "higher end" version and may be the more powerful version over a month ago. I have a feeling Lotus may be attempting to stay vague on power specs and prices, I assume to throw competition off? I can't imagine Lotus doesn't know what kind of power and how much they will be charging yet. However, it is very confusing for the customer.
1 hour ago, Giniw said:
It's not always about the engineering. I am sure the engineers would have been happy to built a 600bhp engine if they could.
Makes you wonder where Lotus would be if Geely bought them 10 or 15 years ago. At this point makes it hard to justify doing a high HP ICE car when electric is on the horizon. I think this kind of makes my point though, Geely obviously didn't want to invest a ton into the Emira with electric coming soon. Hopefully Lotus will get everything they can out of the AMG before ICE is gone forever. I really wanted manual, but if the AMG is meant to eventually exceed the V6 then I may wait and see. At least the AMG is DCT and not a torque converter.
8 hours ago, jimichanga said:
I was hoping the final ICE Emira would end up more like 500bhp, 1300kg longitudinal mounted manual V6
Yeah, I was hoping the top 'o the line Emira was going to get close to the 500HP mark as well. After they said it would be 2-seater only I was hoping that extra space was going to be utilized for more than luggage space, which is what it already essentially was in the Evora for most people anyways. While I understand that they have redesigned certain bits of the chassis its hard not to see the Emira as a re-skinned Evora with more modern looks and a better interior. While I have no issue with that, because the Evora was a great car, offering similar power to the Evora and using the same Toyota V6 and not even attempting to take it beyond what we have already seen is questionable to me. Makes me think very little investment was put into the Emira. I kind of feel Geely doesn't really give a shit about the Emira and probably did not offer a ton of investment for the project, they obviously care more about the electric future and SUVs.
While it seems there is some hype behind the Emira, I think once everyone gets used to the looks and new interior they are going to fall back to wanting more performance. From a business stand point I don't understand why Lotus didn't come out with more of the bang when it comes to the performance. Essentially offering comparable power to your competitors doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Lotus isn't Porsche. They don't have dealers everywhere and the brand cache has taken a significant hit over the decades, you need some more bait to bring in people IMO. Its not like the Emira offers more tech the the competition. The looks may help it sell well (for a Lotus) for a year, but just think of how much more interest there would have been if they also clearly beat the competition in performance as well. I have a feeling interest will fall off pretty quickly if its another round of Emira losing to the competition in head-to-head tests and constantly trying to playing catch up just like the Evora. Maybe I am wrong. Hopefully Lotus has some tricks up their sleeve.
It reminds me of the Simpson's episode where Lisa creates a new Barbie-like doll that all the girls want and then Barbie comes out with a version with a new hat and nothing else different and no one wants Lisa's doll anymore. "Oooo the Emira looks so great! Lovely interior!" Porsche: "Check out the new Cayman, looks just like the old one, but has a couple more small vents on the side." Everyone: "Emira who?"
9 hours ago, duncx said:
I wonder if they have finally used the roof structure as a stressed part of the full assembly?
I have a feeling that's part of the reason for no targa or convertible was announced. Other part is cost of crash testing. Although I am sure if Emira is big hit Lotus will consider doing a targa or convertible, but maybe would require larger sills?
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10 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:
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I think one thing we now know is that the Emira is unlikely to be any quicker in a straight line than a 400-on Evora. I can fully understand the owners of those cars being a little hesitant to switch to the new model on that basis. That doesn’t mean they won’t make the jump when any uprated Emira joins the line-up later on. There could well be a stampede for that one!
If you are an Evora S1 owner, then the Emira should be a step up in performance and worth the investment.
Also, looking ahead, what impact will these thousands of new Emiras have on the servicing capacity of our dealers? There will be quite a magnitude of increased demand from end 2022 onwards.
This is kind of where I am at and probably somewhat had to do with my initial disappointment in the Emira. To me the move from my 400 to the Emira feels like a more horizontal move, based on the current performance numbers we have been given. I might drive me 400 1 or 2 days a week during the driving time of year. For 4 or 5 months of the year it sits because of winter. So while the tech and improved looks are very nice, its still hard to justify right now without also seeing a performance jump. I am sure they will get there eventually with the Emira and maybe that day is the day I put in my order.
Ever since the Evija Lotus has been very vague on performance numbers. Is this some kind of subterfuge or is this them truly not knowing? I find it really hard to believe that with both the Evija and Emira, which have been in development for over 2.5 years, they don't have any performance figures really nailed down?
Yes I know the claimed 2000HP of the Evija, but even in some interviews its eluded to that it may end up with more.
Now I would be shocked if the Emira V6 had 500HP, but I could see it at least being the 416 of the Evora GT or the 430 of the GT430. Its almost like Lotus doesn't want the competition to know the final numbers.
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35 minutes ago, j141 said:
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Give me the Emira's performance specs
The 3.5-litre V6 will produce 394bhp with either a manual or auto transmission, while the AMG motor, which arrives later, is good for 355bhp and drops CO2 below 180g/km. Lotus is targeting a sub-4.5-second 0-62mph time and a top speed of up to 180mph
If this is all true its very disappointing! I was hoping for 450bhp minimum, guess I will wait for the S2 or a decent special edition
Car looks great, its specs however are very disappointing and its not a shock Lotus didn't really even talk about them during the presentation. Even they seem embarrassed of them.
Nissan 400Z will have 400HP at $30k USD. This is starting at over $80k with less HP and weighs more than an Evora (even if just slightly)? This car should have launched at 450HP at the absolute minimum for the V6. At these specs Lotus is going to get nowhere near their target IMO. Looks and tech only take you so far, I don't see this out performing its rivals and in the end that was the most important thing it needed to do.
I know eventually there will be higher HP version, but this is actually worse than I would have even guessed.
The good news is I don't feel like I need to sell my Evora anytime soon.
in Emira Chat
Seems really fake. Why even put Emira S or R on there at all? At worst just put "reserved", but not sure why you would even put anything like that at all, even for internal use.