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soldave

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Posts posted by soldave

  1. Will do Am also wondering about the outboard driveshaft part that goes through the bearing and hub and whether that took some less noticeable damage. If that's warped a little or something it could be causing the movement both at the hub carrier and maybe backwards putting force on the inner driveshaft and causing that very slight movement in drum.

    This is all speculation right now but the UJs and outer driveshaft are probably next to replace.

     

  2. 2 hours ago, makepeace said:

    Kind of looks like the same something that I've been experiencing. It improved after replacing bearings and torquing the hub nut properly and a couple of other things mentioned below, but fairly sure it's still there and only chimes in as a problem at about 80 km/h or so. No heat or anything. What I did notice when putting everything back together was some suspicious arrangement of washers on the diff studs. I changed that to be a bit more uniform and to something that looked "normal", but I think this might be part of it. Then there was also the missing diff stud reinforcement which I added, and I had to jack the chassis out to make it fit @ 400mm centres. My next approach is to do a full refresh on the rear (and front) suspension so that I can get a suspension shop to have a proper look. Looking forward to your investigation.

    Thanks. The Eclat is undriveable  with the noise it's making so I need to diagnose it and fix it.

    Right now I refuse to believe the second replacement bearing I got was dead on arrival but will check the torque on the hubnut to make sure its at 200ft-lbs. What bothers me is that even when the wheel bearing went last time and i was limping the car back home, there wasn't this noise. It seems to have developed either just as I got home or afterwards.

    I've had the inboard driveshaft out again today to recheck that and it looks fine. Looks like I hadn't done a great job on seating the o-ring last time so I've put a new o-ring in place. Rotating the inboard driveshaft 180 degrees doesn't see to have moved the "point of clanging", which gives me hope it isn't something in the diff. But I'm also losing confidence it's the UJs too. I do have a pair of new ones though so might just get the driveshaft out and replace them so i can cross it off my list of possible issues.

    The only other tiny thing I noted is that as the brake drum rotates with the driveshaft connected, it moves probably a mm or 2 vertically when it gets to that clanging point. My suspicion is that's just an effect of whatever else is wrong rather than it being a brake drum related problem causing this, but thought it worth just dropping into the conversation.

    • Like 1
  3. Right, I might have a small lead on this. Baby was sleeping so I dashed to the garage again! Driveshaft bolts loosened individually and still sound there so not the bolts causing collision. Took drum off and inner driveshaft rotates with no sound. So then I got a little creative by my standards and connected driveshaft to inner driveshaft without brake drum. Tightened bolts so they were snug but nottorwued or anything and slowly rotated. Take a look at that random video below for the results.

    You see that little bit of movement, that's on the forward and back rotation where it makes the noise. Something is causing some in/out movement when it reaches that point in the rotation. Nowhere else.

    The question now is what that "something" is.

     

     

  4. Yeah it does sound like more of a clang the more I heard it than a knock. What's throwing me is that when there's no load on that corner there's no sound at all. Add the load and you get the clang. Once per rotation but a different point when going clockwise and anti-clockwise. And you have to give it a good old spin to get a noise.

    Really strange but I'll get driveshaft off and brake drum and see if anything is obvious.

  5. New rear wheel bearing on and test drive this morn. Got about half a mile down the road before I noticed a knocking on rotation from paasenger rear end (aka new bearing area)

    Got the car back and jacked it up. No noise on rotation. Got creative and jacked the hub carrier up too to add some load, giving you the sound you can hear on the video below. Happens rotating forward and back, once per rotation at different points.

    My thinking is when the wheel bearing died and trashed the hub carrier, one or both UJs were damaged too. Seem a fair diagnosis from that sound? The UJs seemed fine when reinstalling but of course no load.

    Should say I can't feel any notchiness as it turns or stiffness as it gets to the part where it makes noise. Faster rotation = louder noise.
     

     

  6. The putting together of the rear end of the Eclat is going slowly but surely, but I've come across a bit of a sticking point, quite literally. Got new brake shoes as one of mine was getting to the limit and the other was right at the limit. Everything was apart so I thought I may as well. Pistons all retracted and adjusters as far into the wheel cylinder as possible and on go the shoes. And then the drums, Except the drums are a tough fit over the shoes, especially on the passenger side. Both went on in the end but not without a lot of persuasion. Right now only the driver's side is back together but there's a LOT of drag in the brakes (i.e. with the wheel on it's not easy to rotate the wheel). I'm guessing the passenger side will be similar.As expected, rotating the wheel backwards allows some more rotation but there's still a lot of friction there.

    I did have the car running in gear with no wheels attached. Of course because of the open diff there was only one wheel moving, but I have seen both sides moving when in gear. Afterwards there was a bit of heat in the drums; nothing too excessive, but it was only in 1st & second gear for a couple of minutes.

    Handbrake has around 3-4 clicks of movement and then becomes tight. Now that's tighter than it's ever been, but there is that bit of pull in the handbrake before it gets tight. And previously, although the handbrake wasn't great (cable and tensioner are new), it did tighten the rear brakes so it does work. I guess the question I have now is whether the handbrake is under tension even at rest.

    Will try to check it tonight, but does anyone else have any other thoughts? I knew that new shoes would be closer to the drum, but not this close. I'm half tempted once it's together to drive on it for a few miles and see if the first bit of the shoe material wears down, but not sure if that's a good idea of a reckless one.

  7. 7 hours ago, EXCEL V8 said:

    If the garage pressed it in correctly by supporting the inner race of the bearing it would be near impossible to press it in too far (of course they may not have done it correctly and that's what damaged the bearing in the first place).  It will probably be the demise of the bearing that has led to the carrier damage.  Such a shame.  Borrow my tool next time - or pop down to Nottingham!

    Pete

    Thanks dude - might come on a quick trip to Nottingham to use that tool once I've got new parts back together, if that would be alright with you.

    Just need to get the hubnut off with everything off the car. Got a socket to fit and impact wrench, but only one pair of hands and no clamp. May need to get creative or make a friend to hold the hub in place!

     

  8. Errrr, guys... I might have found what was causing the wheel to feel like it was dragging a bit. Took the hub carrier off and this was the sight that greeted me

    carrier2.thumb.jpg.db42466438ea24e0ddebe912bde15480.jpg

    carrier.thumb.jpg.abca3b445db42f65ddcbbbf5e0de28f6.jpg

    carrier3.thumb.jpg.231d1841e8bb8c5f7a26b9b534b379dd.jpg

    Now what in the name of destroyed hub carriers has caused that to do that? All I'm thinking is that when I took the driveshaft to the garage to get pressed into the hub and bearing, they pressed it too much somehow. Everything spun freely before it went on the car but maybe when the hub nut was torqued up to spec (200ft-lbs) it pulled the inner part of the bearing through or something. All I know is that corner is pretty much kaput.
     
    New hub carrier, likely a new outboard driveshaft (might be lucky and the hub carrier only took the damage), potentially a new hub depending on what has actually caused this, plus of course the new rear bearing itself). UJs actually seem in fine condition, with no excess play and a full range of smooth movement as you would expect.

     

    • Sad 2
  9. I think I explained myself wrong - there is no movement of the driveshaft in and out of the bearing. Was just thinking about something wrong.

    But... we may have a lead in working out what the hell is going on here. Spent about an hour this evening fitting and refitting the driveshaft, measuring with the feeler gauge (the nip might be closer to 0.1mm to be honest so on the lower side but still well within spec. And then I looked at the setup again.

    backplate.thumb.jpg.df4bb4008322db284b01d979489ccfe8.jpg

    towards the bottom you see the channel that someone has added as there has been an oil seep from that seal? Nothing new about that - have seen a few pictures of it on here. But reaching around the back of the backplate, I think the right-hand rivet in the picture actually causes interference with the diff housing, causing the backplate not to sit perfectly flat against it.

    I need to confirm it all tomorrow but that might be enough to give me that bit of in and out movement. trying not to get ahead of myself but am trying to think now how I would file down the rivet to stop any interference when I have very little room to work pulling backplate out and away from the diff. The manual seems to suggest backplate off is a diff out thing so I want to avoid that. Quickest way would be trying to get a sanding wheel on a dremel or something in there, but given it is right next to the diff it would need cleaning of any oil (wouldn't want to burn the garage down with me and the Lotus in it!), and would need to protect diff entrance from any bits of metal.

    I might check tomorrow and realise I'm completely mistaken, but it certainly looked as though there could be some interference, causing the backplate to stand ever so slightly off the diff towards the bottom  of it.

  10. Yeah I have. The push switches come out fairly easily; the sides of the switch have a bit of raised plastic that keeps them in position. If you get your nails on the top and bottom of the switch and wiggle/pull, they should come out. The light controls are a little more complex and the heater controls require the console panel taking out to get at them; same with the radio I think.

    • Like 1
  11. On 17/07/2022 at 19:05, Benco said:
    • … and sorry for a really straightforward question…. Controls like the fog light / Light switches etc - are they in the ‘off’ position when they are switched ‘up’ or when switched  ‘down’? 

    Do you mean the switches in the centre console? Switched up (as in top half of switch is in) is off; switched down is on.

    • Like 1
  12. 33 minutes ago, EXCEL V8 said:

    So if the bearing is seated on the shaft correctly and held in place by the collar and the bearing retaining plate is clamping it all in correctly I can't see how you could have the movement so clearly shown in your video.  Something doesn't add up! 😕.  Did you measure the nip without the o-ring in place?  Looking forward to the next instalment! 🙂

    Pete

    Yeah, o-ring is off the car and I had already noted it needs replacing. When checking the nip and with retaining plate pushed hard against the backplate, I tried the inboard driveshaft and there was still that movement. The only thing I can think is that perhaps the collar is right up against the bearing and the inner race of the bearing is tight around the driveshaft, but possibly a mm or so away from where it should be sat. That's all i can think that would explain it, but if that's the case it must have been like that for a couple of years (possible, and I've just not noticed it.

    Thanks for the continued advice and thoughts - it must seem a lot like the "let's help Dave try to understand mechanics" thread! :D

    • Like 1
  13. 14 hours ago, EXCEL V8 said:

    Have you measured the "nip" on the bearing retaining plate?  What figure did you get?

    Pete

    11 hours ago, jonwat said:

    The original Europa & the Guigiaro Esprit had the same suspension design as your car where the drive shaft is load bearing & acts as the top suspension member.

    The correction for wear is to add shims around the differential output shaft to compensate.  

    Hope this helps :thumbup:

    Thanks, guys. for the thoughts about the nip and maybe shimming it. So theoretically I may be able to shim the retaining plate out enough so that i cancels out the in/out movement of the shaft itself. That's encouraging.

    I'll report back on Wednesday when battle resumes between myself and the Eclat. If I attempt to work on it tonight or tomorrow I'm just going to be found collapsed in a pool of sweat and diff oil in the garage! I'll get the hub carrier off too whilst I'm there as I really want to give that bearing and UJs a once-over.

  14. 1 hour ago, EXCEL V8 said:

    The diff output shaft bearing is held onto the drive shaft by a heat shrink sleeve.  If the bearing is free to move on the shaft (it shouldn't be) and the sleeve has slipped slightly that could account for the movement.  If the bearing is in the correct place on the drive shaft and also held in place as it should be by the sleeve then the bearing/drive shaft assembly may be moving in the diff housing.  The whole assembly is held in place by the plate that also retains the brake backplate - are all four bolts tight on the bearing retaining plate?

    Pete

    Yeah, just been out to check. All four bolts on the bearing retaining plate are torqued to spec. But I did manage to get a bit of luck and after loosening the retaining bolts the inboard drive shaft slid right out. Now there is no obvious movement in the bearing, and the collar appears to be right up against it. All I can think of is that perhaps the bearing and collar could be a couple of mm further down the driveshaft towards the retaining plate (i.e. outside). I can't see an obvious gap but it's all I can think of.

    driveshaft.thumb.jpg.e1293a6c3d7d533289dd1692b0bcf0eb.jpg

    Interestingly, I looked back at my notes and this thread, and it seems like I have had issues in this area before. Back in 2016 I had similar play in on the driver's side output shaft (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/o61-B47tuMQ), and then in 2019 I had grinding on the passenger side (i.e. this side) bearing and so replaced it, collar etc. If so I might have had this movement for a while and only just noticed.

    Which goes back to me wondering if this has any connection at all with the wheel stickiness and heat issue. And people wonder why I sound stressed! :D

  15. 8 hours ago, EXCEL V8 said:

    If you remove the wheel and grab hold of the outer u/j can you move the outer drive shaft within the hub carrier?  There should be absolutely no play between the outer drive shaft and the hub carrier (other than rotation of course).  If the bearing seized for some reason the whole bearing may have rotated within the carrier - that would create a lot of heat (and wreck the carrier).

    Where abouts in Yorkshire are you Dave?

    Pete

    Well the plot thickens, and potentially not in a good way. Wheels off and still had the movement which I traced to back brake drum. Drum off and diff output shaft (aka inboard shaft) was pulled in and out, and there's a bit of movement (see video below). I'm imagining that means the output shaft bearing there isn't in great condition if there is movement. No grinding as it goes around but ir's movement that translates to vertical movement in the wheel

    My understanding is that this is a diff out job to replace these bearings which is an absolute nightmare, and with a newborn son could mean the car is on jackstands for quite a while :(. Now could that cause the rear wheel to get so much resistance that the wheel would be ho to touch? Well I'm not too sure about that - if so then the heat at the diff must have been pretty damn high. Both UJs seem to be in good condition though and there's no real growling from the bearing when it's being rotated so that part of the mystery is still not solved.

    BTW, I'm just south of Wakefield, 5 mins off J39 of the M1.

     

    4 hours ago, makepeace said:

    Did you tighten it further than 200 lb to fit the pin or loosen? SM says tighten.

    It was tightened to 200lb and then just tightened a tiny bit more so I could get the pin in.

  16. 51 minutes ago, makepeace said:

    Yep, that definitely doesn't look right. The wheel should not move relative to the hub carrier. Either need to making the hub tighter or its a bad bearing.

    A couple of people on Facebook have suggested checking out the U-joints too. Not sure it would cause this issue, but other than the bearing moving inside the carrier and then locking up I'm not sure what would.

    Hub nut is torqued to 200lb-ft which I think is factory spec.

  17. I know what you're thinking: "Oh jeez...it's this guy again!". Yup, like the proverbial bad penny I just keep turning up with more random videos to show you. Before you watch the vid below, please just take a minute to read the context below.
     
    If you've been following my Eclat rear wheel bearing woes you'll recall I said I felt like the wheel kind of "dropped" when I rotated it after it had decided it didn't want to turn so well. Jacked the car up tonight and it did the same so I tried lifting the wheel up; it seemed to clunk back up and down when being lifted by the wheel. I've tried to take a couple of videos of this, the first using a lever under the wheel (a spade - just call me MacGuyver!), and the second with me lifting the wheel from the bottom. Hope you can hear if not see the clunking up & down. Hub carrier doesn't seem to have any equivalent clunking which is making me think more and more that the wheel bearing is on its first and last legs. I get, of course, that when you lift the tyre the suspension will raise will move. But I don't believe there should be that much movement and notchiness in there using relatively little effort lifting the tyre. After that notch everything feels tight.
     
    The only thing I wasn't able to do was lift the wheel and then try rotating it. But from what I've read and those visa, does that seem like a fair diagnosis?
     

     

  18. Been down that route and you struggle to find anything in stock. NOS with surface rust goes from £80 on eBay. There is one member in South Africa who's been looking to make their own bearing using a number of other individual bearings and then grinding down the bearing carrier a little (https://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/topic/115798-s1-eliteeclat-rear-wheel-bearing-specdimensions/).

     

    From an SKF point of view the bearing kit is SKF VKBA737. The bearing itself is BA2B 417308.

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