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KusaKusa - The Lotus Forums - Lotus Community Partner #ForTheOwners Jump to content


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  1. Based around when Tesla moved structural components in batteries into the mainstream conversation, there are 2 types of "structural batteries": a structural battery pack and structural battery cells. The core principle is basically instead of 2 separate and adjacent parts doing the different things, let's combine them the simplify the amount of parts and reduce weight. With a structural pack, the outer shell that holds and contains the entirety of all battery cells (i.e. battery pack) for crash protection, puncture protection, thermal runaway prevention/mitigation, electric stuff isolation, rigidity against battery weight, etc. does double duty as the vehicle structure to connect to subframes, provide vehicle floor rigidity, act in vehicle side crash safety overall, and such (honestly I won't act to know all the requirements that are needed for vehicle lower structures). Like in the below picture, the rear subframe and the seat rails are literally bolted directly to the battery pack. Normally in the early EV stages right now, batteries attach to some sort of lower structure frame, which connects to subframes, seats, body in white, etc., especially for ICE platforms that have been repurposed into EV ones. What I was talking about for Lotus was that structural pack. My supposed difficulty with using a supplier battery pack design over one developed by and for Lotus is that I can't imagine a supplier's design being able to be a structural pack. To do so, the supplier's scope would need to fulfill vehicle-level requirements that can vary significantly vehicle to vehicle if they want to have the greatest compatibility with the most customers, like mounting points, crash safety targets, size targets, and rigidity targets. Fulfilling all those with a wide breadth would basically be CATL making its own platform at that point. So if CATL isn't making a structural battery, then Lotus is principally starting on a bad foot here. Theoretically, Lotus could significantly minimize the weight of the normal vehicle structure to adapt to the inherent CATL battery structure, even if the design of the two aspects were not integrated from the start and ground-up, to optimize from this solution. But considering Lotus is leveraging an existing Geely SEA platform, the chances of bespoke vehicle structure designed around this CATL battery are low. Anyway, eUKenGB, what you're describing is structural battery cells. With structural battery cells, the idea can be simplified into "if we have all these batteries with all these casings, why don't we utilize these casings for more things like structure?" Batteries theoretically can be a structural component; there should be a theoretical max amount of load the casings can take without compromising the casing integrity or causing deformation. Any gating reason preventing the solution, like say the battery tabs being too vulnerable to disconnection as a result, is an exercise in problem solving. If the solution doesn't work in the real world, then the vehicle requirements were not assessed correctly. Structural cells only become a non-solution when their most viable case is worse in all metrics due to complexity than another solution like a structural pack.
  2. Lotus' first EV model, Eletre, to be powered by CATL's Qilin Battery: The Qilin battery pack seems like a master class in optimization through integration, so I'm glad Lotus it taking it. It can give them credibility in the EV space by standing on the shoulders of the largest battery manufacturer in the world, and it shows their commitment to cutting edge technology. And this demonstrates their legitimacy as a big and serious player to get a contract with CATL. Here's a link with more technical details about the battery pack, which are quite impressive: CATL unveils Qilin Battery, says it can easily achieve 1,000 km vehicle range: Though I wonder if it's possible for a supplier-provided battery pack to be designed with the attributes/requirements in mind to be used as a structural battery pack with performance vehicle rigidity. Normally I'd think that a supplier battery pack would have to be designed to connect to a vehicle structure like side railings for compatibility, leading to redundancy between the two compared to a slightly bigger and more structured battery pack that could act as both and could directly connect to stuff like subframes. If it's not a structural pack, it seems like a waste of all the integration within the battery for it to not integrate needs outside of it. But a structural pack is still rare, with I think only Tesla having achieved it in its 2 recent factories, so a good supplier pack is still better than most.
  3. KusaKusa

    Type 135

    New Autocar article, but not too many new details: New information: - Key dates confirmed to be 2026 reveal and 2027 start of production. I believe this is a year later than what many publications were estimating. - Matt Windle: "I've seen the design of the car. It's very exciting. Performance-wise, it will be incredible. We've set out the attributes we want from it, and we're really looking forward to getting it here." - "It will be its own segment" instead of replacing any car outright. I wonder if this applies to both size/performance class and price. Emira and Type 135 production will have some overlap - The Alpine collaboration isn't set in stone yet, but work is on track - Type 135 will have greater production numbers than Emira. Considering the 2028 goal of 90k yearly lifestyle vehicle sales and 10k sports car sales, probably most if not all 10k was planned to be Type 135 when that news was announced way back. - Future EV sports cars will be determined once Evija and Emira hit full production. Emira was expected to hit 7k production in 2023 before the supply chain delays, so maybe late 2023 or early 2024 would be the approximate date for these.
  4. Well at least it's only for the Advanced Performance division. Tons of new wealth people, especially in like southern California, made money on crypto and such. So NFTs would appeal to that market.
  5. KusaKusa

    Type 133

    Type 133 will have double rows for the headlights, based on the teaser below, but probably not like what Car rendered.
  6. KusaKusa

    Type 133

    There are some pretty significant differences to the Polestar 5 and the Lotus Type 133, even if they're both in the large luxury EV sedan category under the same umbrella company. The Lotus will be on the same Lotus Premium Architecture that the Type 132 is on (based on Geely's Sustainable Experience Architecture), which seems to be a typical steel and aluminum (and carbon fiber?) platform, but the Polestar 5 will be on an entirely new bonded aluminum platform currently only announced for the 5. Type 133 will (likely) use the same motors as on Type 132, but the Polestar 5 will use a new Polestar-designed EV drivetrain with a 2 speed transmission. The only thing they may share is that the battery and 800V technology is co-developed by Lotus, Polestar, and Volvo, so all the group has access to it.
  7. There's actually a lot of interesting info in the article. 0-60 MPH being 2.95 seconds is a bit disappointing for their highest performance model. Like 2.95s will make the Eletre the second fastest SUV ever, taking the title from the Porsche Cayenne Turbo GT at 3.1s. But it's a shame a "hyper SUV" from a performance brand that's made the Evija and has invested a ton into transitioning to EVs early can't compete with the Tesla Model X Plaid out of the gate, by a significant amount actually (it has 2.5s). Coefficient of drag at 0.26 cd. It shows the porosity in the Lotus design language isn't just aesthetics and pretending. For comparison, the Audi e-tron SUV has 0.28 cd and the Model X has 0.24 cd. Considering the Eletre is more performance oriented with air intakes and downforce, has 23" wheels vs. the Model X's 20" wheels, and doesn't look like a blob, having a competitive cd is really good. The article mentions that Lotus' Electric Premium Architecture is based on Geely's Sustainable Experience Architecture. This was reported in early leaks and hypothesized earlier on, but Lotus said it was a bespoke architecture for Lotus and never mentioned Geely SEA in their initial Eletre reveal. I can't tell in this case if the article is just saying that or if it was straight from Lotus' Chinese press materials. It'd make sense if it were true though.
  8. KusaKusa

    Type 135

    I believe you're talking about the packing efficiency of a thinner battery cell vs a thicker battery cell in a set space. I meant to focus on how battery cells consist of material for cell outer packaging that add no direct value, vs. the electrolyte "jelly roll" that add value and power. This outer packaging should be a fixed thickness for the most part, so making a battery cell bigger would increase the proportion of the electrolyte vs the packaging, thus increasing the power per volume/weight. In comparison, I'm not sure how the losses in packing efficiency would contrast to those gains, but overall the shift from the currently normal 21700 battery size to 4680 was claimed by Tesla to bring a 16% range increase holistically. This could easily be applicable to any size shift for other battery suppliers.
  9. KusaKusa

    Type 135

    Lotus' UK battery supplier Britishvolt buys out a German battery supplier: I believe this confirms a few things: - Britishvolt has a greater likelihood of not being vaporware. If they were strapped for cash to build their factories, they wouldn't spend millions to buy another company. - There's a significant chance that Type 135 will utilize 46xx sized battery cells. The German company specialized in large format cells, and Britishvolt says they're at the "final part of the 46xx cell development and commercialization". With how far we are out for Type 135 and the potential to use 4680 cells in the LEVA white papers, there's plenty of time to accommodate these cells to the upcoming vehicle. 46xx sized cells are important because they have more volume than most cells used today. Bigger cells in fewer number means less volume/weight used for packaging individual cells. Tesla mentioned 4680 cells as an improvement in their 2020 or 2021 battery day.
  10. Yeah, honestly when other publications were saying a mix of the Eletre being at least 2 tons or under 2 tons, I thought the latter was a misinterpretation. Good that Matt confirmed it. If Lotus can hit that, even with a base trim with no extra goodies, that'd be exceptional. It'd demonstrate that Lotus can truly stand out and bring unique value to the EV field amongst a ton of new start ups and existing manufacturers, and that they can compete with state-of-the-art mass market products.
  11. KusaKusa

    Type 135

    I'll put EV Porsche Cayman stuff here as well since both it and Type 135 are the first of their kind (actually second including the 1st Tesla Roadster). So characterizing the Porsche will get us a better idea of what the Lotus could be like. Anyway, here's Chris Harris driving what's basically the Mission R concept, but difference here is that other journalists could only drive 60 mph max. It's crazy how fast it can go around corners and how much traction it has simply from the EV AWD capabilities. He seems to be a fan, and he seems pretty open minded to the EV transition as he owns a Polestar 1.
  12. I've watched and read a ton of interviews about the car, and a lot of lightweighting for the Eletre does seem like lip service. They mention the holes on the exterior of the car, but how much weight are you really saving with like the front air channel into the front wheel well? Wouldn't that just be covered up with a thin and light panel anyway? Is not having a full spoiler behind the rear lidar camera REALLY a weight saving measure? If removing the center of the dashboard saves weight, why not just remove all of it instead of just the center? If small improvements matter, then why does absolutely everything have electric motors like the front vents, charge port, rear wing, infotainment screen, etc? But I don't know enough to say if something truly saves or removes a good amount of weight, so I guess the numbers will speak for themselves when they come out.
  13. A good customer experience isn't mutually exclusive with being a big business or the transformative direction of Lotus. Lotus is in a weird spot between the traditional higher end car "bespoke" dealer experience, which fulfills the voice of the current and historical Lotus customer, and higher volume "transactional" experience like Tesla, which fulfills their future plans for higher volumes, worldwide sales, and agency-based operations. But really Lotus isn't committing to either option nor do they have some sort of transition plan, and this is just executing bad customer experience. Even if the Tesla way isn't as intimate, I think a majority of current complaints would be handled through that method. Tesla streamlined the customer experience by bringing a ton of distribution and delivery in-house and centralizing communications and user interaction on their website, so they could clearly map out the delivery process and give clear communication on estimates and delays. I don't think it's too much to expect Lotus to do that. It really just seems they're winging the customer experience and delivery process rather than having some sort of process map for it and intentional plan of action.
  14. Article titled about Eletre, but it mostly talks about Lotus' next steps and a strategic consulting firm's opinion on their brand positioning:
  15. Great article. The transmission and inverter design seem similar to what's in the LEVA white papers potentially for Type 135. I'd love to see a picture of the motors or EDUs themselves; has anyone seen any? This is the first I've heard of the 800 kW charge rate, and that's bonkers if true and sustainable. 800V support for an entire car's electric charging components is the current target to hit, but that only equates to 350 kW of charging. Only Porsche and Hyundai (with help from investment into Rimac), Lucid (920V), and GM's very new Hummer have been able to hit that smaller target so far. Not even Rivian or Tesla can hit it yet. And the Evija uses a smaller sized battery than everyone else, which makes it harder to charge faster. I wonder how they handle the amount of heat from that.
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