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NedaSay

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  1. Ok this is nice. But where is the Emira GT4?!
  2. NedaSay

    Type 133

    In the Geely group, this segment is assigned to premium brands Polestar and Volvo. Lotus is positioned higher. Lotus is hunting the Porsche hence the decision to come up with a Taycan competitor. Besides margin on upper echelon cars are much more interesting and Lotus needs each car they make to generate substantial margins...
  3. Lotus Evija in Forza Horizon 1.95 sec 0 to 60 mph
  4. Not really surprising... Lotus has generously geared Hethel for future production and more capacity is still to come with the continuous refurbishment of the historical buildings. The tech they will use for the future sport car is specific enough. Dieppe is also an old factory that will need refurbishment in order to produce the future cars of the brand. if the sport car is Lotus engineered the SUV will be Renault Group engineered (as of now) on a completely different platform and with different assembly process. It is not illogical that both sport car and SUV won't be able to share production line. Beside Dieppe is supposed to become Renault Group AMG's... the place where hot Renaults will be fettled with so they need a shop to finish putting the new Alpine 5 together and hot version of Renault Megane. In the meantime Hethel will be able to assemble the electric Alpine sportcar and future Lotus sport cars on one single production line. The more business for Lotus the merrier, they probably want a few more high profile customers willing to have a public relationship.
  5. This is a tricky one. On a normal year I would say yes and it would not be too much of a hassle, but since covid year one, the year of the big car rental flood.... Car rentals don't have enough car to go around anymore. And If you can cross the border, no problem with the car rental if you pay the out of this world extra waiver that is. Car rental offices are more hesitant to let their car go stateside because, Covid not permitting, the car may be stuck stateside. Hertz used to do it I think they now want the car return to an airport in country. Still Entreprise and Alamo do do it. But you may be better of with a smaller player sometime, which would require you to pick your car up downtown Mtl to drop it at Boston airport. The real question being, are local car rentals offices willing to play ball with the idea. Best of luck.
  6. When you say soon... We would need to know how soon, a few weeks or s few days?
  7. Lotus finds a buyer for anodizing business https://www.pesmedia.com/bcw-takes-over-anodising-process-for-lotus-cars
  8. NedaSay

    Type 133

    Can we call this a lazy render?! Reuse Eletre key marker, check . Do not look at the teaser provided by the brand for the upcoming models, check! Give the render the hood of an ICE luxobarge check.
  9. Lotus said the car is an alloy body and chassis, there's probably with ultra high strength steel around the battery cell. The BMW is also loaded with their carbon core technology, they tried to contain the weight and I think they did at 2.4t versus 2.2.t for an Urus and 2.35t to 2.65t for a Bentayga. 2.6t for a Model X . Type 132 has a lot of holes and negative surface everywhere, if Lotus managed to shave weight they probably did by the use of of porosity and negative surface, beside Type 132 is not as tall as the BMW and there's a lot of Carbon fiber front and back which should be lighter than plastic but will prove costly in case of a front impact. Their goal is to get as close as possible to 2t, but at 2.1 or 2.2t it would still be the lightest in its ESUV class by at least 200kg and it is competitive with ICE SUV in this class weight wise, even the nearly 50cm shorter I-Pace is 2.2t and the I-Pace is a thing of beauty style wise and if compared with I-Pace 90kWh battery pack, Eletre is 10kWh bigger so yes if they managed to contain the weight. They will have made the lightest ESUV in its class by a mile Should we get an option that remove all lidar camera it will be even lighter. Within the group The Eletre not so distant cousin the Zeekr 001 weighs in at 2.35t. Now when it comes to visual perception it looks lightweight compared to other SUV and ESUV and in terms of Driving perception well it is still going to be developed by Gavan Kershaw and his colleagues so for a 2.1m wide and 5.1m long it should still feel nimbleish. And now back to daydreaming...
  10. My neighbours down south tend to segment according to gross vehicle weight. Over people do it on price. A DS9 is as 4,93m long, yet it has been benchmarked on the Audi A4 and not the A6 or A8 which are closer in size, price wise it under cuts the Audi as it was intended to. it just doesn't have that luxury feel an A8 would have despite being about as long. It doesn't have the power either with a 4cyl coming as standard and 4cyl hybrid at the top end. The I-Pace was benchmarked on the Macan not Cayenne. in terms of size it seats in the middle, in terms of how roomy it is, it beats the Maccan solidly but in terms of price, it is very close to a Macan - where i leave - all the while being an ESUV. it is a Jaguar so it is premium and it has been compared to other premium SUVs but if it has been compared at the very beginning to X5 and Cayenne at the beginning, it was then compared to GLE, iX3 or even XC40 Recharge, because on price they are closerish, and the comparison to them is a lot more favorable. And before we know it Eletre gets an award:
  11. Here is the wikipedia link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_classification but here you go A-Segment = minicompact (it's an oxymoron I know) vehicle = japanese kei cars B segment = subcompact vehicle = Mini Cooper, Toyota Aygo C segment = compact vehicle = Honda Civic, Peugeot 308 D-segment = family vehicle = Ford Mondeo, Mercedes C class, BMW 3 series E-segment = executive class vehicule = Mecedes E-Class and , Audi A6 and F-segment = luxury vehicle = S-Class A8, Quattroporte J-segment= SUV and light pick Up trucks in the US. You will notice that technically all vehicles in the list I put out there should be in the J segment which was created for SUVs but it has been unceremoniously dropped because in the US car makers don't make cars anymore or at least not seriously.... Ford only manufactures the mustang in North America, as of this year (focus and Fiestas are imported) Chrysler only makes the obsolete 300 and Pacifica MPV, Dodge only makes Chargers (aka the cop car), GM produces Volt and Bolt and Cadillac produces the CT something or other, but the Ford F150 sales dwarfs all the car I just mentioned combined. So... yeah, they have given up on making cars that are not highriding, it can be an SUV or a truck but no longer a car.
  12. I Believe that in Europe, the Eletre is the third E segment ESUV launched, only the BMW iX and Tesla Model X exist in the segment as of now. Many are going to come out in the very near future. China has a Nio ES8 which is not imported and a bunch of others like the Zeekr 001 which is more of a station wagon crossover. The Lotus Eletre will compete in the same realm as the these ESUVs and ICE SUVs Lotus will not have the same goals has Tesla, BMW and Mercedes who will want to sell by the hundreds of thousands but Lotus will still need to find buyers in the tens of thousands to really get what they want/ need. There are more ESUV on the more compact D-segment : Tesla Model Y, Jaguar I-Pace, Kia Niro, Hyundai Kona, Volvo XC40 and C40, Mazda MX-30 VW ID4; In the US there's also the Ford Mustang Mach-E the subcompact Chevy Bolt
  13. Another Eletre competitor will be introduced shortly, Mercedes is about to present the EQS SUV, their E segment flagship SUV. As opposed to all other MB products using the EQ moniker, this SUV will use a bespoke EV architecture, they are not dropping and EV powerunit in an existing Body, they have built a brand new vehicle architecture. and it shows inside... ...and out not that we can see much at the time being, but clearly there's no engine below that very short bonnet EQ SUV S is supposed to be good for 400mi WLTP as is the EQS Saloon. The name is a bit confusing but just like BMW with the I series or Audi with the E-Tron these branding are only going to be a temporary, until the entire range of Mercedes vehicles switch to electric. Being an E segment this EQSUV should compete head to head with the BMW iX and de facto will be another option for people who put the Eletre in their short list for Luxo barge with hiking boots.
  14. Carbon superstructure maybe... Not that it should add 60k to the price but yeah... BMW needs a new design team to try and blend EV and the brand key stylistic traits because sometimes before or after Chris Bangle came and left they lost the plot.
  15. Other thing going for Lotus, has much as Porsche design is very codified and they tend to design their EV's (Taycan) as they would design their ICEVs. I think that Lotus can play with their design a lot more cause if you ask people what a Lotus should look like, other than small and light people will not have much to say, meanwhile should you ask the same question about a Porsche, people will say a 911 Carrera. It is very much set in stone Lotus doesn't have that problem and as a result their design teams have a lot of free reigns to express themselves within the confine of the newly named Carved by air and also cab forward concepts.
  16. You forgot one key factor, Eletre looks much better. And based on Harry's comments it appears that in terms of ergonomics Lotus have done their homework. if that ugly thing gets over 350miles of range being 2.6t and looking like a freaking fridge, a sleek one but a fridge nonethess, I would expect the Eletre, being all carved by air, to do better because it should offer even less wind resistance and if they are to make their target, about half a ton lighter.
  17. The target volume is close to but not necessarily 50k in year one. the Factory has flexible capacity up to 150k+ per annum. But that is when the trio of cars is out and about. Type 134 is supposed to be the biggest seller of the trio. Eletre is the Halo product, production target was anywhere between 25k and 60k vehicles because it does depend in part on the uptake in China. And the spec level people opt for. Geely does hope they will be able to go straight to the top over there. Since the cars are made locally there are less taxes on it. But they have kept things a bit vague in the vision 80 business plan, besides when I last read it ... Lotus was still supposed to share its factory with other premium brands of the group. The factory has been designated as exclusive to Lotus, just like Zeekr and Polestar got their own exclusive factory. The Wuhan factory won't build vehicles for other brands of the group, at least not for now. It is part of the Geely's play to raise equity out of and for Lotus Technology. They are affecting a lot of tangible assets to their newest unit: factory, test track facility, HQ, R&D centres in The UK (LTCC) in Germany (LTIC) + access to offices on Geely campus in Gothenburg (CEVT). And of course, all is done under the oversight of Lotus HQ (Hethel) and ZGH (Shanghai). They have deemed this strategy the right one to get relatively fast positive return on investment, and it sort of Limits exposure for ZGH which is already quite over leveraged.
  18. The model X plaid weighs 2556kg. The doors do in fact weigh a lot and also forced the body/chassis to be reinforced fore and aft... Musk said it himself the gullwing doors were a mistake he would not do again. the third engine also adds weight. Tesla controled weight by making option list very limited. The X is already 10 years - old unveiled in 2012 and released in 2015! Tesla was still a very bratty company with a huge chip on their shoulder. It is crazy to think that nobody has really been able to catch up until... now. Lotus Technology inherited years of Lotus engineering lightweighting research, has more resources than Tesla had to develop model X at the time, and enjoys 10 years of technology improvements in aluminum stamping - some holes and negative surfaces in the Eletra body would have been deemed impossible to bring to mass market 10 years ago. They have done their homework so much so that they can afford to have robotised screen and Lidar.
  19. ^^^that is a bad render. This below is it. By the way is it me, or did they tweak the new logo again?!
  20. I couldn't agree more. for me it is also another aspect, that because most of us don't have access to Geely products except for Volvo and Polestar, so it is not really obvious ; that is the amount of parts coming from the Geely group parts bin. It is beyond what one can imagine. Yes, the body is bespoke, it's the first aluminum body for Geely Group, but it is the first of many to come as Polestar is adopting the alloy for its upcoming vehicles. The skate architecture comes from Geely Group so does the loom, the seats, the infotainment screen, the toggles... they all are a bespoke treatment of existing parts. Even the powertrain is a bespoke treatment of something that Lotus had access to. All of that is bringing the costs downs and the economies of scale are going to be massive. I'm not surprised Lotus did not specify a currency for the price at the unveil. Believe me or not but they can actually make it for USD 100K or EUR 100K. The Zeekr 001, which Eletre "shares" of lot its bits with(the SEA architecture aka Lotus Premium Electric Architecture), retails for the equivalent of USD 55k IN China. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/zeekr/001/first-drives/zeekr-001-2022-review So thanks to the use of the parts bin getting a price even just below 100k is not out of the realm of possibilities. Yes, at 100k you won't get the carbon bits and probably not LIDAR, and it will probably the 3 seats bench at the back without the photochromic sunroof and only a 15 speaker system with the base leather/ microfiber electric seats. And yes we in North America will get regular mirrors and not cameras because NHTSA will not have them... That would still get the buyers a Premium ESUV with a range of over 500km and enough power to do pretty stupid things at the red lights. I'm not sure getting below 2sec 0 to 60 is that much of a good thing when moving this much mass... Speaking about mass the way Zeekr 001, which body and subframes are all steel weighs 2350kg... I guess we'll see how much the aluminum body and subframe can save, along with all the weight saving measures Lotus applies to it. The number may be pretty close to 2000kg dead in top trim, which would be not shabby for a 5m luxobarge with huge wheels.
  21. Geely is trying to establish the brand by benchmarking it against the upper echelon.The Target they have is clear, it is Porsche market. Porsche is in its own little but very profitable space somewhere between the likes of Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Jaguar, Lexus, Volvo... and the Bentley, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Aston Martin and Co. Lotus is de facto targeting the same space. Thus the Eletre sizing, power, and spec level ; it is the same size as the Urus, not a coincidence, it is as powerful as a Tesla X, not coincidence either. it is unveiled with only four seats and the most luxurious cabin with golden toggles to boot... This is not a coincidence. They are not there yet, that is a fact but that is what they are aiming for! Again the most likely competitor for the Eletre as an EV vehicle is the Tesla Model X, and on spec it has to be the Plaid version which retails at $120k or BMW iX M60 that retails at entry level at $106k. Lotus is committing to an entry price around 100k, yet the did not specify the currency, but since it is not made in the UK, it doesn't have to be GBP, if it is USD then 100k would be undercutting both vehicles on value. Lotus needs to work on perceived quality, up the brand cachet and offer a specific USP, there they chose tech. if compared with a Cayenne (ice vehicle) then you have to match it on power and specs which means the Turbo GT model that is $180k, even with a conversion rate in favor of GBP that is not 62k (I noticed you went for the entry model) Lotus branded the vehicl as an hyper SUV, they meant it. If you don't see the I-Pace competing with the Macan, some people at Jaguar will be very hurting right now, it is the one vehicle they benchmarked like crazy for both the I-Pace and the E-Pace.
  22. The Taycan is a very tempting vehicle if you are in the market but it is smaller not that this is the criteria why people buy these things. Maccan and Cayenne EV's are not available yet I-Pace are in another category compact SUV or D segment while Eletre is in the E-segment. The only vehicle in the list to compete with Eletre is Tesla X Plaid and another one you haven't listed BMW iX M60 which is the most similar competitor from Europe right now, however Cullinan EV and Bentayga EV are in the pipeline. Type 134 will compete versus Maccan and I-Pace on price. it is not Eletre' job, which is to hunt Cayenne Turbo, Lamborghini Urus, Bentley Bentayga and the likes, at 94k entry price, it is quite good value with the standard kit. We have to bear in mind it is not designed to work in the UK, not even really in mainland Europe but China and the US. It is expected that China will get the bulk of the orders for it hence the configuration it was unveiled in. Still it may find a niche market with the lads and WAGS of premiership if Lotus UK agents could sell 500 to 1000 of these it would be a success already. I think they are looking at Cayenne sales volume so 50000 vehicles produced annually For the "more affluent but not quite as wealthy common man" the Type 134 will be the go to crossover for the brand, it will be freed of all the uber luxury gadgets, more Emira and less Evija, it shall be more compact, lighter, simpler but with an eye watering option list, it will sell in bigger volumes 75k to 90k vehicles per annum. And because Lotus was initially going to produce that vehicle first, its development must be really advanced already. The Type 133 will complete the trinity of higher volume cars that will prop Lotus Group in the Porsche megasphere. where Geely wants them to be. Lotus was supposed to share its Wuhan factory 3 years ago. Now they get one for themselves with capacity for 150k vehicles per annum.
  23. Eletre is not for everybody's purse for sure. I can't even imagine the luxury tax on it over here. and just as Australia a road-trip in Canada would have to be organized very carefully even if 600km range is on par with most non diesel vehicles in that size. it is not so much about the vehicle's range and more about the grid and network of recharging stations availability. I use a GM Acadia 7 seater all winter I don't think that I can go more than 450-500km without refuelling. Indeed I think hybrids are going to be the go to vehicles on some markets, and even-though the Eletre has what it takes to be a most amazing grand tourer, it will be limited to commuting in big metropolitan area. Lotus wanted a status symbol and i think when it comes to that this is a success. I find it interesting that they only displayed the 4 seats configuration and not the 5 seater but considering is primary markets are going to be China and the US that probably makes sens. China's young millionaires are going to love the gold accents of the car ... got to say gold is not my thing but it was showing how much they could the envelop and the envelop was quite spectacular on the inside However the next crossover which will be Maccan size maybe a potential alternative for somebody looking at a luxury or premium product. Cause if they can produce the entry model at about 100k then by removing all the fancy air suspension, active aero, a single engine and a more compact form factor, Lotus will be able to leverage Geely's parts bin to provide to the market a vehicle in the 60k range. The Eletre despite its name is I think a wonderful "exercice de style". and with its ginormous wheels and titghtly shape proportion it sort of looks smaller or more compact than it really is while being quite roomy inside except for the trunk which is plainly not being enough for a vehicle that is 5.10m long.
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