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Everything posted by Jonathan

  1. They were, but the delta isnt that high which is what I would have thought is the important bit ? Becuase the thing still made max boost somewhere then started to tail off - I thought that would be a result of additional heat ? If you look at that readout - the mid point of the 2.24MAP area (where I would expect MAX boost to have occured) is ~4200 rpm @ 50c The temps actually went down from the period before - after that period it rises by less than 4 degrees, not bad considering the thing is working overtime and some. I did a very similar test with mine in 5th gear and my dt was about 6 degrees without any drop in boost over the revs at all. Before I rebuilt the chargecooler circuit I was getting about d 10-15c when I was noticing drops in boost. Its all this that's kept my car standard all these years.
  2. LOL Lucas that wasnt a dig at you - just messing about, I'll pass on the hug thing though if you dont mind Seriously I've been toying with this concept for ages - the GT3 is under my performance level and the smart move is a small increase in boost (for me) - after seeing some freescans and code for some chip I was put off, esp when i started asking questions the chip writers couldn't answer. Its this saturated sensors and not being totally clear with what's going on that get questioning things. See on your xls file, at some points the wastegat dc is 100% but boost is decreasing significantly (~6000 rpm). If you look it saturates at 3500 (map 2.24) then decreases....below what my GT3 holds boost at over the rev range. I know your inlets are pretty hot (50c) but it does make me question these chips, to me it looks like its letting the turbo overboost nice and early in the max torque area of the rev range so you get the "yes it works" kick in the ass when you floor it, then it actually falls off later in the revs to a standard level. Its the old, higer max speed but lower average speed (boost) concept. It works clearly over the standard boost but it's too brutal for my liking - if the saturation value for MAP is 2.24, then I'd rather see the boost rise to a level fractionaly under and be held there over the rev range as much as possible so everything is accounted for in the data readouts. Clearly something is going on (although there is only a 2-3 degree change in inlet temp) - cus the wastegate is begging for more turbo boost by the end of the run, its wide open, but the turbo has run out of puff - whether its the engine swallowing more air / second due to high RPM I dunno. No bugger's ever explained it to me in a way my head says "you're trying to have me on here". See at least with a decent boost controller you could do this, lower maximum / higher average boost pressures would ultimatly increase engine life as well - which is the balance I want to strike, if / when I do the job.
  3. Interesting - I see your MAP is saturated so you're obviously boosting above the MAP sensors scope (prob over 1.1 bar) Is your car chipped as well as having a boost controller - I'm not understanding too well this concept esp why the wastegate DC is at 100% (prob cus I know jack shit about cars and stuff) I would have thought yes which is why the wastegate DC is also technically off the scale - its probably how the chip is programmed for your setup. If your chip is saying OK to boost past 1.2bar (ie past the MAP sensors reading) then the wastegate DC will always be 100, becuase to the ECU's eyes you're stuck at a boost level under what it wants to achieve - although you probably physically achieve it, the ECU never knows beucase the sensor cant tell. See at normal standard code the wastegate DC is only 100% when its accelerating the turbo - once max boost is achieved at approx 3,200 RPM the thing is backed off to about 70% cycle (or the turbo would just keep boosting to destruction) to moderate the boost levels. This is what I dont trust about chips, I'm seeing 2 sectors here fully saturated and wondering.....OK whats actually going on. I see it like putting a volt meter on 0-200V then slapping it on a circuit and wondering if it might be 11KV or 220v.....either way the meter only reads 200 max. Or is it error lost intranslation to freescan itself ? I know said chip expert said there was a issue with the way it reads.
  4. Nice 1 Travis, you're lucky to have that kinda machinery there at your disposal - are you getting paid to do this at work ? Dunno what it is about bright shiney machined metal....some peope look at Rembrants and so on, but watching a slab of metal turn into a work of at on the table infront of you is well satisfyng. You gonna anodise them hats yeah ?
  5. You may laugh.... Who's gonna enforce it ? - Cost of the police officers (3 years training) - always double crewed in a car, cost of his welfare, obscene retirement, wages, squad car, equipment, people to look after it all and repair it when he bends it. - Another tier to the speed limit - more cameras, or more coppers, has to be enforced somehow. - Some people on here think 60mph on a motorway is a crime, imagine 56mph as you wanted all P platers to drive at. How long does a lorry take to overtake said P plater at 60mph ? how much conjestion will that leave on the roads, agro, road rage, frustration, more hazards - Last and not least, its tricky to enforcable. What happens when fred blogs says "bollocks to this P plate rubbish, I wanna speeeeeeeeed" - drivers are not common to their cars like tax and insurance are - how do we know they're a P plate driver unless we pull them over to physically see who's driving ? Same as we know if the driver of an otherwise perfectly legal car has a licence or we don't unless we tug over every person. Lots of wasted time. Some people skip insurance, the licence and the rent on their what makes you think they'll adhire to the P plate. Where at least a decent test gives us better drivers : - Less accidents (keeping the roads open and flowing - any idea on how much a closed road cost ? bit of armco ? and all the little people running up and down repairing it) - Less insurance payouts (saving us money) - Save lives and and more importantly injuries. Accidents cost the NHS MILLIONS to keep people in hospital and nurse them to many work days are lost to accidents ? Frequent test ensures we dont have the person who passes 30 years ago who gets in a car and goes oh lets go out for a drive shall we...........its OK I passed my test in a penny what's this pedal thing do.............. Whether we re-test them every 5 years or every 10 years it matters not - at the moment there is no re-test. Refreshers wont be necessary IF people drive properly and not like tits - easy answer, don't get bad habbits or switch them off for the test. If they need to fork out for refreshers - again, more fool them ! P plates, might be the best idea since sliced bread, but you've not sold it to me I'm affriad Dave. Last post, amen to that.
  6. Simon, I guess only time will tell - I have my opinions, and as much as it doesnt sound like I do, I respect yours even if I disagree. You're damn right I used to speed.....I used to bang the speeding drum, all the time, pretty much everywhere and excessivly (never got caught though...keep 'em peeled), but things changed my mind - not brainwashing. ....If people wanna fly down the motorway putting their money into the taxman's pocket, more fool them, but good luck to them they must be on a good earner, so crack on. Someone find me a place that sells unleaded for under £1.25 around here and I'll put the hammer down - how about that ? Bibs, if I drive this fuel injected car smooth with no harsh acceleration, my fuel consumption goes down - funny how thats not bullshit as well......or do I suppose the computer under the bonnet that tells me the realtime MPG is wrong on your say so ? Is there someone higher up I can talk to please ?
  7. > Simonb - when someone starts accelerating past the limit becuase they are driving to the feel of the accelerator (not becuase they want to go hell for leather) you have to identify and explain why. You could just say "lift off, slow down" but selling the reason to them helps them understand more. People can take the piss as much as they like, it really trully has no effect on me tall becuase the laugh completely is on them - the people in my car paying for lessons ar the ones saying "oh the pedal feels slightly lighter, why ?". You made an interesting point - on off. That honestly and I'm not being argumentative but that is just not the case. I drive my puddle hopper (1200cc) and keep up with all the traffic and never need to use full throttle, 1/2 throttle max, as a result I burn less fuel and the car accelerates just the same. My brand new learner yesterday came up with a piece of solid gold after a car shot past us going the other way - pleased as punch she says "he's gonna have to break hard and stop for that corner, we just drove around it without stopping in 2nd gear" - (I was so proud, lesson 1 and the Chapman principals of less max speed, higher average speed demonstrated and firmly embedded lol) - she certainly wasn't using the go pedal as an on off function, unlike him. I think some people get carried away with the thrill of speed, some think its a badge of honor becuase they're driving a flash car it must come 1st in the race to work or forever wear the shame. Others simply haven't had the experience yet that we all as expereinced 10 year + drivers take for absolute granted. You may well be un-convinced, thats fine, but it does happen and as boring as it may be to the experts out there you do have to explain, briefly and in basic terms, why it happens to people who have never had more than 3-4 hours of experience. I know I'm playing to a hostile audience but, I just can't see that allowing potentially ill experienced people to out on the roads with even more speed at the disposal is a good thing, when its abundantly obvious a lot of poeple stuggle as it is. What I do find puzzling / ammusing though is the hostility, when most of you's who I've driven with and alongside have no regards for the limits anyways - and I'm not talking 10-15mph over the some cases double the national how is 80mph gonna save your licences if / when you get nicked. Or is it just a means to lessen the blow when the NIP comes through - sorry coppa I was only doing 20 over as opposed to 30 over Its all good, some of these points I'll use and pose to the 2 lads I have coming upto test in the next few weeks. Contrary to popular belief they love being quizzed and taught, after all they're paying for it !
  8. PMSL - tbh I didnt expect anything less than a ribbing from you lot, for one you dont even read what I'm typing. I'm not talking about sudden acceleration ! I'm talking about pedal feedback and how it differs from low rpm and speed to higher rpm and speed. It's one of the main causes of speeding - people get lazy on the foot and dont realise what's actually happening and how to moderate the pedal. I guess you actually have to get out there and teach for real, get on a stretch of road and tell them to drive at a steady speed and watch them gradually get faster and faster - then again wtf do I know, and what does the instructor course know, they do this stuff just for shits and giggles nowadays..... On a serious note Simon, yes - driving on motorways can be tiring Considering teaching speed is for learners is the difference between licence and no licence.....yeah I'd say it was fairly important. On driving up some trucks ass, are you saying for someone I care about I'm not going to offer some advice that could one day I could save their life - and compare that to washing up Dont worry I'm laughing too, heh, If you laugh and I laugh we're all happy
  9. Yis. To clarify I am gossin about pressure past 0.65 bar (which is the standard capsule on most if not all of the 4 bangers) If you look at the std ecu under wide open throttle it allows the turbo to accelerate from 0.65 to 0.85 moderatly smoothly - which avoids harmful boost spikes and torque reaction on the compressor/turbine. Reason why I never went the chip route is I have no real idea what someone has put into my code. Invariably in the past I've trusted mechanics and 'skilled engineers' to work on the car and they've done such a bad job I have had to go over it again, which is why I self service nowadays. All i wanted was a tad more boost, with the controller I can have that and also turn it off in an instant if I desire (poor road conditions, in the wet etc whilst I get used to the new power levels). Anyways, good discussion
  10. Looks great, are those front upper ball joint bolts bent !? (think mine were as well but not that much)
  11. Ian, valid points - esp about driving in the dark, yet another major thing people dont bother to cover, esp in summer. Without being rude I do find some of the things mentioned simply shocking, but as Ian says no-one likes their driving critiscised (apart from me it seems becuase Im always more than willing to learn of you got something to teach !). My GF made huge errors on the road and 1 stern glance let me know I couldn't offer her some advice, even if it meant potentially saving her life one day (tail gating a lorry - then again some ppl on here prob think thats safe). Every single examiner and ADI I have talked to and trained with believes the test is not poor, it's verging on obsolete ! 45mins, of which 20 mins of that can be taken up by mincing around on manouevers and being stuck in traffic or traffic lights. I am sure the majority of ADIs out there teach to an extremely high standard but there are a hell of a lot of bad ones too just using pupils as cash cows. 50% of my students have come to me from other instructors fed up with poor lessons and being taught the wrong stuff. ALL of them haven't even passed their theory test.......which is supposed to be done by the time we get to 10 hrs in the car. In rural areas, they just have to use common sense, if you're on the Isle of Wight, deepest darkest Wales for example - special consessions - however they can still be judged on appropriate dual carriage ways at the same level. Driving on the motorway is NOT just a case of the 2 second rule (jesus) its about prolonged driving at high speed, building upto speed, joining the carriageway, leaving, rejoining slower traffic, motorway junctions, what the new signs mean, the different colours of the cats eyes, judging distance, what the hard shoulder is there for, overtaking, use of controlls at high speed, time magement, preparing the car for the journey (ie no underinflated tyres) and reading the traffic flow to name a few.........sheez.... ^ 90% of these you can do on a suitable dual carriageway that isn't restricted to 50mph (for no good reason). I feel changes in every car I drive at pretty much all speed but thats just me I guess. Example - one thing I teach is how at higher RPM and speed the accelerator pedal is easier to press becuase of the air rushing into the throttle bodies helps keep the throttle open. Care must be taken to not squeeze the pedal as normal or you'll accelerate to dangerous speeds if you dont check the speedo. The feel off the accelerator is diffenent from 50-70 unless you have a fly by wire car. We digress, the fact remains you wanna clean up driving, punishment (cure) is a poor way of doing it, 5 year re-tests with a better test (prevention) = job done. Raising limits to 80mph is great for largely experienced drivers in supercars who think just cus they buy a nice car they are gods gift to driving (see the ferrari crash pic thread), but not really for the vast majority who under circumstances can jump into a car and find a whole new world on the Motorway with a newly increased speed limit. Ian, perhaps you can answer this - is it the done thing to teach about road fund tax, MOT and insurance ? Points, drink driving and so on ? I've done a write up for this with my pass packs and do verbally go through the ins and outs during later lessons Its just another thing people invariably havent a clue about - "oh did I need insurance then ?".....
  12. Typical 5th Gear drivel. I blinked and missed the 1st half of the Evora bit.... I did kinda spit my coffee out when she said about keeping the same gears as the porker (WTF?) and the fact the Evora was track focused.........pahahhahaha Sorry I must have missed the roll cage and buckets seats and stripped out interior when I blinked. Mongs. Apart from differences in interior why would anyone buy a Porsche over the Evora.......on looks alone its a seriously pretty car (albeit until they start re-aranging the front end to make it more 'agressive')
  13. Everything points to boost controller for my liking - just so much more versatile, cheaper and....better. I want a base standard car with a small amount of overboost and as much reliabilty as possible - Im not chasing high bhp levels more drivability and efficiency. The discussions I had were not to take std turbo over 1 bar which was logical for my needs, and to keep the chargecooler as effecient as possible to aid drivability. The overboost values I looked at were, to be fair, on a high boost chip. I already have a dump valve but that only compensates for decceleration. Lucas, not more slowly - as standard. When you look at the standard code it ramps the overboost up smoothly so the turbo isn't "snatched" as such - the difference is small but more mechanically sympathetic. Cooling the inlet will allow faster spool times without mechanical drag (colder the inlet quickler pressure is reached and at a lower compressor speed). Thats just how I wanted to go about it. Also this is on a GT3 not the SE / S4s code. Anyways its a way down the line for me....wonder if I can get an interchangable one for both cars ?
  14. Au contraire - I do understand how they work, myself and a chip maker in the USA, name of which I shant reveal had many a conversation about the BS fed into some chips. Before I spent silly money I did do my homework. If you look at the code in some chips - esp the more popular ones, the wastegate soleniud DC is commonly set to (wide open) 100% to allow the turbo spool up insanely quickly and insanely fast to max boost pressure. Whilst this isnt any increase in max horsepower it simply moves the torque curve back slight giving the impression of more maximum HP when all you are getting is max boost earlier in the rev range. This puts a lot of strain on the standard turbo to get that additional acceleration kick, which is something I dont want and a behind the scene feature of many chips. The original ECU code allows the turbo to spool slightly slower but more progresivly feeding it in preserving the life of the part and more controllability / regulations (instead of on/off approach) at the expense of turbo lag. Personally I'd rather have the durability / drivability over 1/2 sec of lag. Thing that concerns me with a boost controller is you're effectivly bleeding the overboost solenoid, if the standard ecu is mapped and regulated for say 0.85 bar boost , anything over that - then the ECU is going to start thinking about giving birth to kittens ? So say I have a std chip at 0.85Bar and sling in a boost controller, when the car boosts to my new value of say 1 Bar which is what I'd like - how does the ECU cope with this, surely it will see excessive overboost and to to close the overboost solenoid to 0% DC ? If that is the case I can see why you need an electronicaly controlled boost controller to then adjust and take control. Just interested in how the ECU feels about being over ridden - some mods I've made to the ECU controlled ancillaries, the ECU gets in a right paddy if you go behind its back...
  15. Happy days, boost controller it is then. There is lots in the chips I have seen I dont like, mainly messing with the overboost solenoid duty so the turbo spools up so quickly it can damage the thing - personally I dont want that, I just want an extra few psi on tap. End of the day the std turbo is only really handy around 1 bar anyways so things like fan temps etc are handy to adjust but there is no way I'd pay for them when a simple glance at the temp gauge and flick of the air con sorts that out. The versatility and price of even some of the top boost controllers significantly out weights a chip change that you can only undo by ripping the ECU apart. Its a no brainer if you ask me.
  16. LOL had to laugh at some replies....and we wonder why we're bad drivers Jog on.
  17. Never understood why poeple spend silly money on a chip when a boost controller does the same thing and is adjustable or re-setable to factory settings. How does the ECU work out fueling for boost past 'normal' (0.85bar) boost levels - does it use a table format or a formula to calculate it ?
  18. Too complicated to enforce. Just introduce a better test with more frequent testing - job done. The current one is so woefuly inadequate. A better test would give more skill to a learner and frequent testing would ensure drivers are regularly checked. Here's another example - I gets a call today, 40 something person, passed their test when they were 18, never driven since....wants refresher lessons becuase they cant remember much about it. My jaw hits the preverbial floor. Technically that person can drive LEGALLY on the road - so how on gods earth does that make sense. Some of my pupils with 2-3 lessons are going to be streets ahead of them.....yet the person who's not driven a car since they passed some 20 years ago can jump straight in and careen down the motorway at a new and improved 80mph. If one atom in your body thinks thats a good idea you need testing out. I think the majority of people know how to drive propperly but simply cannot be assed to. They are in a rush, get bored or see driving as a chore - either that or the car does so much for them they dont see the need to indicate or look before changing lanes etc. Education not punishment. If it were upto me skidpan lessons would be compulsary as well - yeah it'll cost the learner money but so does sweeping your car up off the road and getting points on your licence.
  19. pic 21 - all that effort to look patriotic.....and they fly the union flag upside down....
  20. Dave - some dual carriageways are 50mph limits even though they are 2 lanes, armco and so on - trust me - the police love them. If you take your test in Gillingham Kent the only dual carriage ways within the test areas are 50mph limit (A278 and A289 which also drop to a 40mph limit) which means you can train and educate pupils in this area and not experience speeds of over 50mph becuase they will not be taken on the Motorway. So they take and pass their test - immeidatly out of the test centre they can do a left left and be on a 70mph 3 lane road they have zero experience with....I wouldnt teach it but I bet some people would - it's lunacy. Now lets up the limit to 80mph - previously the student has only dealt with 50mph limits, then they goto 80mph - tell me thats not dangerous. Total stopping distances (thinking and breaking time) increase exponentially with speed, we all know that. The idea someone can pass their test with only experience of upto 50mph roads and then be let lose on an 80mph 3 lane motorway is frightning in my eyes.
  21. How many people drive at 70 on the motorway (at least down this neck of the woods). I even had a UK registered artic overtake me today, so even lorrys don't adhire to speed limits when they can get away with it. I'd say averge speed on motorways is about 80-90, at least. Most people flying past me when I'm dordling along on the inside lane listening to radio 2, are in ill equipped cars (like my puddle hopper) for the speed they race past, weaving in and out of traffic to try and shave 1/2 a second off their commute time and simply not paying attention. I never would have been a convert to the slow and methodical club until I drove my new car, just by backig off a few mph you get so much more time to plan and antcipate traffic - you often meet cars that have raced past you a few miles down the track again as they are braking, shifting lanes desperatly trying to keep a steady 70+ going - it's quite funny actually. I know it doesnt go down well with people - I was one of them myself "up the speed limits" but it really doesn't bother me anymore. --- Oh and the other hilarious contradiction, up the speed limit for a set of roads where it's not compulsary to learn or be tested on ANYTHING about them.......great. I've never seen the sense in not having a compulsary motorway test, its absolute lunacy. A provisional licence holder can go out on a test, be educated and do a maximum of 50mph limit on their test, pass, and go straight to 3 lane 70mph+ motorways without having a single lesson on how to join / merge or anticipate traffic at that speed.....
  22. Cars got better - drivers got worse, and lazy. I've said it before 100 times - you wanna improve driving, introduce a 5 or 10 year Licence. Increase revenue (Ian and myself would be happier too) - safer roads. 80% of people on the road today wouldn't pass a theory test, hazard perception and the basic drivers test without 5-6 lessons of tuition. The fact you can get your licence and hold it for 40+ years is insane. If motorways were 100+ in the UK I'd think more than once about driving on them, seeing what I see happen at 70mph day in day out ! Once re-introduced to the logic of safe and normal driving, I think people would adopt it more and stop driving like tits - it would also encourage people to maintain correct driving skills to elieviate the need for booster lessons before the test. I routinely drive at 60mph now, 1000x safer, less fuel, less stress and I get there.....a few mins later, big deal. I proudly do my bit on the roads, some of my students are 3-4 lessons in and are already MUCH better drivers than some people we encounter around the estates.
  23. Jonathan

    4. Turkey

    ^ Good point In fairness to GL, this was the only way they could get into F1, they had to buy into a team and Renault was there, and in superb position. If they had Kubica this season they would be trading blows with the top runners for sure (not that Nick isn't doing well as it is) - it was a logical choice after a major screw up with Lotus Racing. i dont think people realise how many fans Group Lotus have lost to Team Lotus during this saga though, I just think its much more exciting to watch a new car / brand take off than buying into an existing one. Nice roundabouts btw, I just used some of those exact pictures myself for teching a pupil in his driving lesson today.
  24. Jonathan

    4. Turkey

    This is there are people out there who would try and trick us to think otherwise, using words like 'the real Lotus' and 'Lotus have had 2 podiums'. TF + Team Lotus have managed to outmanouever Group Lotus in virtually everything except on the track - but thats becuase they had guts and built their car from scratch. Fernadez could have bought Renault out in the blink of an eye (so could Branson for that matter and could have splashed Virgin over it). I think lotus would have got more credability if they bought the team outright like Mercedes did with Braun - then totally re-brand it instead of doing it on the cheap and trying to trick people its a Lotus by huge sponsorship stickers, painting the car JPS colours and getting Bruno Senna to strut around in the pit lane - JUST becuase he has a famous surname... As a huge Lotus fan the whole saga is dissapointing to the heritage but even if TF does lose the Lotus name I'll still follow them on track - along with Mclaren. I guess buying stickers was the only way they could get into F1 with Team Lotus already there (a monster of their own creations) but I dont see any difference between this and Toro Roso and Red Bull ? Surely Lotus could have used the EXOS project to push their own F1 car and call this Lotus F1 ? I get the feeling Der new Management want instant success, something you dont get through developing your own car - thats fine but it doesnt float my boat, they might as well buy all of Sennas trophies he won at Mclaren and claim them as well.
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