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Gillette new Advert "Anti Men".


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Personally, I'm perfectly happy to take more of a back seat if women want to prove us all utterly useless. Only two weeks ago, my wife was up in the loft fixing a leaking pipe, she cleans and tid

It's about time some of the politically correct took a good look at themselves... I believe to turn a blind eye to one section of society whilst condemning another for the same behavior is in itself r

Wtf has this gotta do with shaving my face or nut sack?

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3 hours ago, Colin P said:

You have obviously escaped the worst of “diversity and inclusion” that has been going on for the last couple of years.

Colin - you are truly deluded. Diversity and inclusion is not for you because: you are white. you are male. you are at least middle aged. you are entitled (because you have worked your ass off for years to get the things you want/need/have and you provide for your family and invest for YOUR future and theirs). You are happily married in a stable relationship. you are bald.  Man up Colin! :)

1 hour ago, MrP_ said:

However some men do think it's OK to letch after a woman and make her feel uncomfortable.

And some women do think it is OK to letch after a man and make him feel uncomfortable - in fact, I had the misfortune to watch a few minutes of one of those celeb shows last weekend (the dancing one) and when the young guys were dancing bear chested showing off their 6 packs the 2 female judges (Cheryl Whateverhernameishthiswek and the other one were letching in full open view and everyone thought that was OK. Anyone who has had the misfortune to be around a rowdy hen party knows women are just as capable as men to make the opposite sex feel lewd and uncomfortable and sadly, domestic abuse and violence from women to men is the on the increase. But of course that's OK because men can only be the perpetrators and not the victim according to current society rules.  I have also had colleagues who have had to deal with non wanted or asked for sexual advances from women at work and I've witnessed at first hand women who are sexual predators in the workplace.  I have a 24 going on 25 year old daughter and thankfully she is fully equipped to handle anyone that acts inappropriately towards her, the sad thing is she may have to one day. But let's not make this a one sided conversation. It isn't right whomever does it, whatever their gender, race, colour etc. I do believe the advert is outdated and the majority of men have evolved from cave dwelling apes who go round clubbing mates and dragging them to their caves!

 

I don't think we should away from these topics, but we need to be truly open and honest when we discuss them and not just narrowly target some groups. It's like with racism and the use of the N word - I think it is a word that has a horrible history, and understand why we should not use it. But how do you justify or explain to a white teenager how the N word is such a bad word it should never be used when you have Rap artists who use it in just about every song and it gets regular airplay?  It's either right or wrong to do something - not Ok for some and not OK for others as guess what, that is just another form of discrimination. It's like you said above re quota's - quota's drive positive discrimination and we are either against discrimination in all forms or we are not. We need to stop sending out conflicting messages and address the real underlying issues and behaviours and shout up when the wrong things are done even when the intention was not wrong.

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Good point @C8RKH  Strictly Come Dancing is a good case in point. It seems entirely OK for female and gay male presenters and judges alike to paw, kiss, comment, fawn, fall off chairs about a bare chested man. Again, imagine outcry if exactly the same behaviour were directed toward one of the female participants in a revealing outfit. 

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A Lotus is for driving, pork is for breakfast.

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3 hours ago, MrP_ said:

It really doesn't. No man that I know (or I doubt you) would ever agree sexual assault on a woman is correct, fair or has ever been acceptable. However some men do think it's OK to letch after a woman and make her feel uncomfortable. People are perfectly entitled to call the women being offended a snowflake I guess, but I'm personally not raising my daughter to enter a world where she should be able to do anything she wants, and I hope not have her boss keep pinching her arse or a supplier complimenting her tits (as her Mum had in the early days of her carer) 

As for the worst of diversity and inclusion. Yeah you'd probably hate me. I've been a big advocate of increasing women in policing at work, both on officer and staff (mainly because I've seen mixed teams perform better and I just think it right), as well as always employing/selecting mixed teams, I have actively fought for not including quotas as I firmly believe the right person for the job is the right person, and that should not be managed by targets. It's just a treat others how I want to be treated, or how I would want my family to be treated. 

I doubt we're going to agree on this, but at least it's raised the topic so if nothing else the advert has been worth that just to raise the debate (my view, no one else has to share)

 

I am a huge advocate of the same. I have a 2 daughters who have been encouraged to be the best! One is a Doctor in A&E and going for Consultant. The other took a different route which is fine, and is a Mom. Her choice. My wife (as you may know) is now an award winning Artist with a Painting in  the Queens Private collection, whilst Juggling being a Nursing Practitioner level of work in the Community. 

I also believe that there should be more women in Policing 100%. I also believe there should be more women in Big Business. However I don't believe in indirect discrimination by favouring one person over another due to their Gender, Colour or sexual orientation. 

Lastly, back on topic, The Phrase "Some men are already like this just not enough". If I said "Not all women are feminists who hate men, just not enough" I would be absolutely cut to pieces and rightly so. So what is right about saying that about males who bully or indecently assault someone...or letch over them? It's the implication here that counts.

Next I have real concerns over the visual "Intention" and the way it misrepresents the majority of men. to Show a huge number of men BBQ'ing ....and thats a gender stereotype if ever I saw one.... all watching a boy beat up another and say "Boys will be boys", like Zombies. Whilst only 1 jumps in to help is absolutely incorrect, misrepresentative and an insult. At least 90% of those men would have done that. yet out of 20-30 men only one does so. How can you not see that is misreprestation of the highest degree? I feel it has lots of visuals like that.

Next It's Gillette shaving products. If it was a Govt information program I would still have issues with the representation of men but I would understand it more. the last thing I need when buying a shaving product is a side order of guilt and a helping of shame, over something myself an every man I know would never do anyway! 

Oh Yes......many years ago I used to take my then Studying, Doctor Daughter to the gym with me. After encouraging her to lift weights with me (Cause obviously all men are sexists according to the advert) this is her now, in competition. Having met the Olympic qualifying weight. Girl Power!.....but equally Man power!
Image may contain: 6 people, people smiling

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Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

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The discussion going on here made me remember of an article I read in a leading Swiss newspaper lately. Therefore, I translated it into English and I think it might be interesting within two active topics, that’s why I will post it twice.


Comment by Roman Bucheli in Neue Zürcher Zeitung (NZZ) 19.12.2018

What the hell is going on with the men?

Is the man a discontinued model? Or has he simply not yet made the leap into the modern age? His attachment to outdated self-images is a symptom of a prolonged crisis.
Where is David Cameron? Where did he go? No former British Prime Minister has made himself as invisible as the one who left the British with the Brexit mess. He believed in a brilliant political move, gambled and resigned, happy as it seemed. After me the deluge. Since then he is bored, it is said, and he writes, for a considerable sum, his memoirs.
Maybe Cameron also squats in the souffle box at the pitiful spectacle of the “braggarts” that the British just have to watch and endure for quite a while to their own grief. Because on and behind the stage are his old buddies and opponents, now united in the choir of squallers, from Boris Johnson to Jeremy Corbyn, who currently know only one script: Theresa May roar and deride.
It cannot be a coincidence that in the summer of 2016, when Cameron resigned after his blatant defeat (not having to pay for the pickle he got the country into), two women were ready for election to the party’s presidency. Theresa May finally prevailed without a ballot among the party members. Previously, one men after the other did not gear up to start (George Osborne) or prematurely out of the race (Boris Johnson). They have guessed that the Brexit negotiations with the EU would not make them win a potted plant. Theresa May did not shrink from that.
To the brutal screenplay of this tragedy (which one would like to call tragicomic, if it would not be that much severe for the Brits) now belongs that the woman who pulled the hot chestnuts out of the fire in Brussels, must let her tell under contempt and laughter that unfortunately these are the wrong chestnuts. For sure, you could bet that the men who are shouting loudest today would not have made a better deal.
One would like to say: Theresa May fought like a man, if the stereotype was not that much wrong in a double sense. She fought like a lioness and above all: like no man would have done. Namely in a hopeless situation. Every man, from Boris Johnson to Nigel Farage, would have referred to Ernest Hemingway: "But man is not made for defeat." No, men are not made for defeat, they can only be destroyed, according to Hemingway.
So much heroism has been getting ridiculous at Hemingway's times already. He has always been anachronistic. So much more unworthy is therefore the British drama (not only because it is performed at the expense of the people). It's also, in the days of #MeToo and Trump's ridiculously long ties, a striking example of a manhood that never gets tired from celebrating itself vigorously, but does not realize that thereby it reaches its level of shrinkage: the man is in crisis. He is threatened by becoming a phase-out model.
Just over ten years ago, the American state theorist Harvey C. Mansfield made a brilliant debacle with his book "Manliness" (Yale University Press, 2006). In there one could read the memorable sentence: "Although it is obvious that women can be masculine, it is evident likewise that they cannot be that much masculine or not as often as men." The sentence manifests downright the crisis of a frozen thinking in contrast to what Mansfield pretended to write in his book.
Half a century earlier, Mansfield's Harvard colleague, the historian Arthur Schlesinger, had stated soberly that maleness is perceived less and less as a fact, but rather as a problem. This would have resulted in two developments: on the one hand a widespread uncertainty of the male identity, on the other hand an increase in aggressively reproduced self-images.
Of course, these symptoms did not occur just since the 20th century. They have always accompanied the imaginations of masculinity, where they were based on presumption and pre-emptive exercise of power. Since such self-images are unstable and always endangered. Therefore, they have to be defended all the more aggressively.
Literature has also developed a special sensorium in this respect, unmasking virtuously the alleged strength of men as their true weakness. One of the finest examples of this is perhaps Fontane's novel "Effi Briest". This is the deconstruction of the male concept of honor, which must confirm itself in a self-defeating duel, along with the portrait of a woman who matures into a tragic personality at the moment she gets cast out.
Fontane's novel shows drastically right there how masculinity is put up for negotiation and reaches a point of crisis without rescue when the man is better destroyed than defeated, according to Hemingway's motto. In turn, the British Parliament is currently offering the most bizarre visual instruction. If Jeremy Corbyn were the man he claims to be, and if he had the sense of responsibility that he claims to act on, he would have had to work with Theresa May or overthrow her, to do it better than she does.
He did and does not, because he is afraid of nothing more than to fall on his face like May. Because the braggart is a moral coward. He puts the raison d'etat behind the party doctrine, the welfare of the people behind his own. He cannot get out of his own skin, say: he, like many men, does not come out of his Hemingwayness. He must fulfill the cliché under whose premise he has begun.
Women too have been forced all the time to come to stay with their femininity in society. Because they had to break the role imposed on them. Early on, they realized that there would be no other way than to re-form this femininity over and over again and to manifold it in ever new images of femininity. What was man doing in the meantime? He kept on dreaming of Hemingway. That’s why by today a Scotsman looks ridiculous wearing a kilt.
Men seem to have little reason and even less phantasy to rethink and transform their role model, rather than constantly re-creating the old stereotypes. The man gradually reduces himself to folklore. And where the stereotypes of masculinity are then opposed by alternative role models, it is significant that it is parody and travesty: but the shrill drag queens rather mock the masculinity than seriously broadening their spectrum. And even the so-called softies have to carry a dubious label, which hints at contempt and makes imitation not really advisable.
So do we need less masculinity? Certainly not. But urgently required would be different ideas of masculinity, beyond cliché and caricature. But for that, the images of masculinity would have to be manifold. Less Hemingway, less James Dean, less John Wayne. The macho in all its forms - and I'm not talking about the bear hunter Putin or the tie wearing Trump - is, however, and unfortunately still the dominant reincarnation of masculinity, even in its tempered or camouflaged form towards gallantry. That has to change, and that will unfortunately take time.
Although the man may be an obsolete model in his frozen role model, not are the attributes habitually associated with him. Courage, strength, determination - whatever has been said about men’s special abilities -  they are not his genuine or exclusive domain. And the world will continue to depend on people, no matter if women or men, who act courageously, powerfully and decisively. But all these beautiful virtues will be of no use if they are not in the service of a reason greater than the ego of their representative.
That, in turn, would mean: taking responsibility spiritedly and with moral courage irrespective of the risks involved, and regardless of the dangers that are coming along with. Masculinity, once understood this way, would simply mean: humanity. So maybe the masculinity would have to be re-thought from this side.
And looking at the British House of Commons, where would you find these virtues? Not on the opposition bench, not on the backbenches of the Tories. But at the very front, where Theresa May is standing pretty lonely. Whatever one may think of her, one thing cannot be denied: that she fights for the affair of her country, even if she fights a losing battle. The honorable gentlemen must copy this first of all.
 

Edited by Black Forest Power
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On 19/01/2019 at 11:02, Chillidoggy said:

Indeed. Next, they'll be casting Doctor Who as woman. Where's it all going to end?

It's rumoured that the next James Bond is not Idris Elba, but rather it is Gal Gadot who will be Jane Bond in a remake of "Diamonds are Forever". 

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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On ‎17‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 23:26, Advantage said:

17_17c89cabf625f9bd9bf24d750ac1c249.jpg

Yes you can see how these women are oppressed, especially the ones smiling away. I don't think we should go back to the "good old days" of hidden domestic abuse, but things have gone far to far the other way.  There is a natural reason for sexual attraction, between the sexes!

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Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic

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