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Steffen_Leitgeb-LSWGmbh

Lotus more practical sportscar announcement?

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Does anyone have an idea what the more practical sportscar on the basis Evora will be?
2020 to be released and no pictures yet?

A 4-door Evora with a higher roof ūüėČ and a boot on top of the V6 maybe ?

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I did not know that the Alpine is a success?

I would have expected Lotus to go the opposite way.
Higher price, more entertainment, more luxury better auto-gearbox and look for a new dealer network which has customers in the high price market already? 

But as this is just talk and 2020 is basically tomorrow I do not think anything is happening at all.
If there should be an entry level Evora why did they go for the GT410 only?
In Germany the 400 is no longer for sale. All you can buy is dealer stock. 

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13 hours ago, PAR said:

That would most likely take the form of a shorter Evora (no+2) with the 350bhp engine, evora sparco seats, mildly improved cabin with a few Volvo tech bits, slightly bigger boot and an entry price of around 60ish, no carbon to keep cost low. Probably 1250-1300 in weight.

Good idea. They could call it the Exige :hrhr:

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1 hour ago, Steffen_Leitgeb-LSWGmbh said:

I did not know that the Alpine is a success?

I would have expected Lotus to go the opposite way.
Higher price, more entertainment


If there should be an entry level Evora why did they go for the GT410 only?

Alpine pre-sold the whole production plan for the year quickly. Started end of March and sold 2000 in Europe only (ie more than the whole Lotus production).

They would go higher end higher price vs Elise and Exige.

what was discussed was an Evora based model (not an evora entry), basically a straight like for like competitor to the cayman with similar level of comfort (I tried an Exige 410 recently and this is NOT the same market...

A 2 seat only shorter Evora called Era (yes, a shorter Evora) with 350 Bhp and about 60k would fit well within the product range and would be an easier sales for most dealers. Would compete with cayman, A110, F-type, some Japanese cars. The Evora is just too high, too expensive for dealer to sell regularly.

Considering all the changes, that may. It be the way forward but it was definitively on the card at some point. 

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Lotus currently has no potential to build volume, so there is little sense in building an "entry leel" model with low margins. That only makes sense once volume production in China is up and running.

Expect the new model to be significantly more upscale, targetting the 911-crowd with significantly improved creature comforts and a state of the art Volvo-derived entertainment system.

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New body on the Evora platform, newly engineered doors and sills, improved luggage space, good infotainment, an interior that looks reasonable good at the side of the competition,  but still decently powerful with Lotus handling, enough of a car to at least match the opposition dynamically - I can't see that at £60,000 unless Lotus are willing to swallow at least a £20-30,000 loss on each car for the sake of reputation building and great press etc. Say a £4-6 million loss on 2,000 cars. Not out of the question, I suppose, when £billions are involved overall. Porsche annually spend over $20 million on U.S. advertising alone. 

 

Has anyone officially actually stated the Evora platform/an Evora-sized car? A rebodied Elise/Exige alternative (but perhaps on an adapted Evora chassis?) with access/egress on a par with the Boxster, A110, new Z4 etc., 10-12" wider interior, at least double the current luggage space (Exige=112l; A110=196l; Boxster=275l), stylish, well appointed interior (good infotainment) with digital dash etc., enough sound deadening and a 'comfort mode' for longer journeys would surely tempt many to dip into their wallets...

 

I completely realise that this is literally burn-at-the-stake level heresy for many Elise/Exige enthusiasts, who may well say, 'Might as well get a bloody Boxster then!' but if the overall intention is to open the eyes of buyers who previously fancied a Lotus but could not live with the compromises, I expect there have been a great many more of them put off by the Elise/Exige than by the Evora, where the interior contrast is considerably less obvious when viewed alongside the opposition! In offering an Elise/Exige that could easily be a daily driver, the market appeal would be huge: it could be your only car instead of considering forking out £50-90,000 for a second car! The sheer volume of Z4s, Boxsters, TTs, F-Types etc. on the road shows how big the potential market is.

 

Regardless of what's coming down the road in 2022-25, this interim car has a massive amount riding on it: it is going to be a huge statement of intent; anything less than it being one of the best cars Lotus has ever offered is going to fall short. 

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7 hours ago, TBD said:

Lotus currently has no potential to build volume

Lotus has capacity at the current facility to lift production by 300% so could build a new model, and probably nearer to 400% now that it is only building Evora GT410's and not 400's, 430's, etc.

Automation, improved design for pre-packaged componentry to reduce build time and assembly line space and they could probably get to 7,000 vehicles capacity per year in current site, from a round 1,600-1,800 current builds pa.

Renault built and sold 2,000 Alpines, so Lotus does have the potential to satisfy that sort of new model build run.

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The new GT is either an Exige replacement, using the Evora platform but mated with a Volvo Geely 4 cyl, remember that back when JMG was in charge in hinted to the fact that the Exige would be the first car to be replaced and that the Cup 430 was essentially a swan song. Or the new GT can be a replacement for the Evora GT currently on sale in the UK, Europe and the R.O.W except for North America which is supposed to get the car later this year, so building a replacement for this car makes very little sense in my opinion, then the new car can slot slightly above the current Evora, we all know what it could mean... But with Popham stating that the new car would be in the same price range as the current offering or realistically at its top end which would not be quite enough...

Pophan nor anybody else I think has stated a size or market segment, nor did they say that the car was replacing the Evora and to be honest I don't really get why they would replace the Evora even if the car has not proved to be a runaway success, it is not because the car is bad but rather because the company behind it has never been in a position to make it a success, this is only my opinion.

Now the Exige replacement makes a great deal of sense to me. It has been hinted at before, the VVA platform even revamped would be cost effective, and generate nice economies of scale if the new car and Evora were to remain in production for a few years... Plus Lotus has complete access to the Geely/Volvo parts bin, which means that even if it is cheaper to build (some modules could be integrally sourced from china : the dashboard) it would have the look and feel of a very premium sports car.

It would not automatically generate massive income, but even though Lotus could use the money the car won't have to provide all of the cash... and would provide a new entry point into the brand... which has been asked by many here worried that with Geely coming on board most  would become unable to buy one of the future cars...

There's a lot going on at Hethel including the completion of a new building hall which last I have heard would reaching levels of automation and robotization unheard of at Lotus.... By the time this car gets into production Lotus maybe in a position to product 3000 to 4000 of these leaving 1000 to 2000 slots for Elise and Evora to split.

if they can manufacture the car with an entry point around 55k-60k in USD-EUR and Geely put their might behind it (sales network, marketing, after sales services) and if they get the product just right, then the game is on.

Should they decide to go with something slotting above the Evora the game is also on and potentially with higher margins but if its not distinctive enough from Evora it may not be received the way they need it to be received.

Edited by NedaSay

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Uh up until The Esprit V8 and Evora, Lotus' line up was all 4cyl... Good news for you is that Lotus also have an hypercar in development and this car could show up any moment now or maybe never.

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5 minutes ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

"cough" Lotus Omega/Carlton "cough"

Ok so over a 70 year period Lotus produced a V8 (Esprit) car two V6 cars (Exige and Evora) and was commissioned by GM to have a go on the Vauxhall Carlton... I stand corrected.

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And the HyperCar may be a no cylinder car to bring the average closer back to 4!

Edited by PAR
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A four banger Evora based car as the new interim entry will greatly strengthen potential for the future collectibility of current 4XX models so  bring it on.  

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No way Lotus will bring a car with an entry point around 55k-60k.

On 02/04/2019 at 04:30, Steffen_Leitgeb-LSWGmbh said:

I did not know that the Alpine is a success?

I would have expected Lotus to go the opposite way.
Higher price, more entertainment, more luxury better auto-gearbox and look for a new dealer network which has customers in the high price market already? 

But as this is just talk and 2020 is basically tomorrow I do not think anything is happening at all.
If there should be an entry level Evora why did they go for the GT410 only?
In Germany the 400 is no longer for sale. All you can buy is dealer stock. 

 

He said at the end of 2020. That is a LONG way.

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I think it is pretty clear that any Evora platform based model with a 4 cylinder would not be called Evora, it would make no marketing sense. They should slot a new car just below the price where the 400 was initially marketed and keep crawling the Evora Price a nudge higher (which will require a near 500bhp output and hence a new gearbox)

i have to say I am quite surprised they haven’t found a readily available gearbox to fit in that would allow to push this engine further, tricky to justify 100k otherwise imo

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3 hours ago, PAR said:

I think it is pretty clear that any Evora platform based model with a 4 cylinder would not be called Evora, it would make no marketing sense. They should slot a new car just below the price where the 400 was initially marketed and keep crawling the Evora Price a nudge higher (which will require a near 500bhp output and hence a new gearbox)

i have to say I am quite surprised they haven’t found a readily available gearbox to fit in that would allow to push this engine further, tricky to justify 100k otherwise imo

They can afford there own gearbox now, I sure QUAFE can create just what they need..

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^^ Uh yes sure they could ask Quaife to produce a gearbox, but I'm not sure many will be ok with the 10km rebuild. I also doubt Quaife, or Xtrac or even Ricardo can produce said gearbox in high volumes (5000 units or so) at affordable sports car cost... I am sure they can do it at Hypercar money (Xtrac, Ricardo already do) I am sure they can deliver hundreds of units over time, but churning thousands of units yearly is on a different scale. The level of investment required is at a different order of magnitude.

Remember that the GTE was going to get the Xtrac AMT gearbox before it just did not, and then we all know what happened, and when the car finally got reengineered these AMT's were all gone. 

Your best bet is still to go to one of the established major gearbox OEMs (Aisin, Getrag, ZF, Borg Wagner) Geely Group has ties with Aisin. However, the problem with the gearbox is two fold... It needs to cope with torque and be a transverse gearbox. There's no gearbox matching this description on the market at the time being... There's a good reason the NSX got delayed by nearly 5 years, they needed to rebuild the entire bed layout when they realized that a transverse powertrain was never going to cope reliably with the ridiculous torque produced by the Twin turbo V6. They had to reengineer the rear of the chassis. 

Bear in mind the problem is mostly a manual transmission problem, yet we know how attached Lotus drivers are to their manual gearbox. However even DCTs and conventional auto gearboxes are reaching their limits in this layout. The Aisin AF8G45, the 8 speed used by Polestar on hot Volvos is rated at 480nm, it can probably be pushed to 500nm if asked nicely and Geely is in a position to ask very nicely. But switching from a supercharger to a turbocharger and bringing the max rpm lower to let's say 6500nm would probably help but then we all want to get to the 7000rpm nirvana don't we? 

ps:  at 7200 rpm the GR-FE engine used in the Evora is able to push over 500bhp it can also push upward of 525nm of torque.

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Wrong topic I'd say this belongs to the "Future Lotus" thread.

Edited by NedaSay

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The Alpine has a weight / stiffness advantage in its aluminium unitary construction. They have a body shell that is the chassis, whereas Lotus have a chassis and a body shell. And, its a cheap form of construction once the tooling has been designed and made. If Lotus wish to go down this road they would have to find someone to build the unitary body shell for them.  Agree that they really need to have an affordable car with superior performance sooner rather than later. All car manufacturers are now chasing lightweight, it’s no longer just a Lotus thing.

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2 hours ago, NedaSay said:

The new manufacturing hall is going to be heavily automatized and Lotus Lightweight Structures (Worcester) and Lotus Fabrication (Vulcan Road) are also getting a cash, tech and staff influx, they can manufacture the stamped and casted parts to have an all alloy chassis and body. The next generation of cars will probably be all alloy and will possibly add something akin to the Volvo/Polestar carbon fibre spine to help getting maximum stiffness. 

The new manufacturing hall? Is this the partially built frame that is at Hethel?

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yes it is finally being completed.

 

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