free hit
counters
Type 130 - Lotus Evija - Page 21 - Lotus / Motoring / Cars Chat - The Lotus Forums Jump to content
Tex

Type 130 - Lotus Evija

Recommended Posts

Aren't hydrogen fuel cell cars essentially EVs? Instead of power being stored in batteries it using electrons from the hydrogen atoms?

Also I am not convinced with hydrogen, mainly because electricity is everywhere. People can fuel EVs in their own homes. This is a huge advantage over liquid fuels. Hydrogen may be most common element, but its also very combustible.

There always seems to be trade offs no matter which way you go. No perfect solutions (yet).

Edited by Likuid
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.

^ That's me in the video cover photo! Nice to see lots of TLF cars in it too, great work guys!! 


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bibs Great timing.. well done, but which of the guys is you?

I totally relate to Harries comments, I would love to see the 130 shrunk to Elise size. And weigh <800ks 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, C8RKH said:

I've said this for a while but EV will be localised, hydrogen will be national. EVs are the Betamax. Hydrogen the VHS

Great analogy!  So what will be the Blueray! 😉

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nuclear fusion powered hover cars! 

  • Haha 1

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very back to the future! 😁


Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Techyd said:

Great analogy!

What, that EVs are technically superior and will be used by industry professionals for years to come. But the poorer format, hydrogen fuel cells, will have the greater popular uptake? :wacko:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually it may be the other way around. EV may be a mainstay for your normal consumer because of its ability to allow you to fuel your car at home and the access to electricity. Hydrogen may be better for professional applications such as buses and trucks.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that I probably extended the Betamax/VHS analogy a touch too far. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember hearing MJK saying Hydrogen wouldn't happen. Petrol is bad enough to transport but hydrogen is on another level or words to that effect. He basically said the infrastructure investment would rule it out.

After watching a recent top gear where the 8 year old 65k miles Leaf was a write off due to now having a 45 mile battery range has got me questioning the idea of battery life and the recycling of a knackered old battery. Can you change the battery? How much will it cost? Can the old one be re manufactured? or is that it?

 

Anyone know?

 

buddsy


 

"Belief is the enemy of knowing" - Crrow777

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You've touched on the elephant in the room, which everyone seems to avoid mentioning, at all costs, whenever EVs are discussed. Long before 8-10 years, many batteries are going to hold less charge, drain more quickly and lose available power and range. The car industry is being forced into making vast investments to make the 'electric dream' a reality, and I think one way they intend to recoup that costs is to vastly reduce the lifespan of future models and/or provide £multi-thousand battery replacements, likely with not-inconsiderable fitting fees, not to mention charges for taking away/recycling the old ones. So many (especially younger) people buy cars on hire agreements, far beyond the quality and type of models they would have been buying only a few years ago; I think car manufacturers are counting on future generations keeping cars for 2-6 years and then upgrading. Despite what we hear about battery technologies improving, the second and third owners of many of those cars are in for a shock (if there's enough charge left in their batteries to provide one!)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course the other elephant in the room is the charging infrastructure. A handful of EVs fine but we would (probably) need to double the capacity of the National Grid and power sources if the stupid things became widespread.

I get the point about hydrogen being "dangerous" but the energy packed in a cc of petrol is pretty astonishing as well. We manage to not blow ourselves up with that and have done successfully for many years. Hydrogen liquid would have to be at very high pressures or cryogenic temperatures for transport and fuelling to be liquid - with associated extra costs perhaps - but once it is in the car in a ruggedised tank then it must surely be comparable.

Hmmm. Fuel injection conversion to hydrogen. I might do my V8...

  • Like 1

I tempted fate...now my Esprit V8 IS in bits...(sob)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, swindon_alan said:

I get the point about hydrogen being "dangerous" but the energy packed in a cc of petrol is pretty astonishing as well. We manage to not blow ourselves up with that and have done successfully for many years.

I have to admit I don't really know about this but as I remember MJK telling me and he as an industry insider seemed to know what he was talking about

From an environmental point of view I see how great it is to power cars from windmills! Epic but battery life/replacement and impact needs to be realistic otherwise we are better sticking with petrol.

Personally I do not believe in man made climate change but I am all for reducing waste.

Im not against going electric either but it should be truly be more sustainable. What would be the point of gearing up for electric if the batteries couldn't be recycled?

 

buddsy

  • Sad 2

 

"Belief is the enemy of knowing" - Crrow777

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Buddsy said:

After watching a recent top gear where the 8 year old 65k miles Leaf was a write off due to now having a 45 mile battery range has got me questioning the idea of battery life and the recycling of a knackered old battery. Can you change the battery? How much will it cost? Can the old one be re manufactured? or is that it?

Yes you can change the battery in a car but depending on which car and which size battery you have it can cost any where from ~£7k to ~£30 to replace so doesn’t really make financial sense.  Costs may come down when more independents start offering the service rather than main dealers but it’s still going to be a huge cost.

You can’t really break them up and recycle them either so currently we have either stick them in land fill or reuse them in things like a battery bank for your home. Charges up during the day with solar power and then discharges during night time powering your home to reduce your electricity consumption.  As your home doesn’t move things like the poor power density matter less when the battery is old and past it’s best.  But that’s still not a great solution to the problem. 

I fear that the manufacturers are providing just enough life and warranty on the batteries for the first owner to have confidence in their purchase.  But subsequent owners may have to pay for expensive battery swaps to get a reasonable range from the battery.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys, I looked at moving some of these replies to a specific topic about EV etc, but there is an overlap of topics here between the Evija and EV, hydrogen etc. If I moved things there will be a hole. 

Let's keep on topic about the Evija here and take the EV/H2 replies somewhere else? Maybe here?

  • Like 1

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, swindon_alan said:

Hmmm. Fuel injection conversion to hydrogen. I might do my V8...

I think some people here are hoping for hydrogen because they think its going to work like gasoline. I would suggest looking up how hydrogen fuel cells actually work, which if hydrogen became a thing it would be likely use the fuel cell method and not the combustion method. It would still be an EV, but using hydrogen for the electric instead of energy stored in batteries. Also, as of now, creating H2 is very expensive and would require very large tanks to get long range. Hydrogen combustion also creates Nitrogen Oxide, which is not good. Its not a green house gas, but still not good for us. Here is video comparing combustible hydrogen to hydrogen fuel cells: 

 

Edited by Likuid
Sorry posted this right after Ramjet, I will go back on topic
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, ramjet said:

Let's keep on topic about the Evija here and take the EV/H2 replies somewhere else? Maybe here?

Sorry Ramjet that was me...I was a bit drunk and did you off topic! :whistle::hrhr:

 

So a question of the Evija is how long will the Williams batteries last with a reasonable battery life?

Will they be able to swap once too old?

I guess at this stage it will all be guess work?

 

buddsy

 

 


 

"Belief is the enemy of knowing" - Crrow777

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes Evija has been designed so that the battery pack can be removed, replaced and upgraded as battery tech improves.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Type 130 Evil Bunny more like.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...