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Type 130 - Lotus Evija


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Yeah its unlikely you will see one new sitting at a dealer

6 hours ago, The Pits said:

Yes, 130 cars is very ambitious in my opinion. But the car is quite something. Fingers crossed.

I'm convinced that the key to success in this rareified atmosphere is working out a way of making obscenely wealthy people even more money. That's really what's driven the hypercar proliferation. Ferrari, Porsche and (post 675LT) McLaren too have worked out how to do it but it's not so easy for a new name to gatecrash the party. Pagani managed it from nothing so it can be done, though Horatio was ex-Lambo. I think that Lotus have poured all their efforts into making the car amazing. The way it should be done in theory. In practice I think you need to put some thought in how to produce a 2-seater bank machine. Gordon Murray is using the McLaren F1 (the car all the wealthy car collectors wish they'd bought in hindsight) to sell his new hypercar. He designed the F1 of course but he didn't build it. Aston Martin is gambling on Adrian Newey's name and reputation to whip up a storm of interest and credibility.

The tricky part is getting the production limit right. If Lotus made less than 10 it raises questions about development budgets, it becomes almost too obscure, something no-one would have heard of. That's a turn-off for the show offs. 1 of 10 cars that nobody wants is worth less than 1 of 1000 cars that everybody wants. We see this already with our Lotus cars. Lots of one-off spec cars out there but that in itself is not considered anything unusual for Lotus and they are not worth as much as a very popular limited edition. If Lotus made more than 200 Evijas it probably wouldn't be considered exclusive enough would be my guess. Ferrari are good at making fewer cars than the demand but they have the benefit of being able to very accurately estimate the level of demand because they are bombarded with letters of intent and pre-orders years in advance. It also helps to know the names of collectors who already have all of the top limited Ferrari hypercars in their collection, it's a safe bet that they'll have the new one whatever it looks like. Getting an idea about the demand is much harder for Lotus. 130 cars sounds like a lot to me but if 131 people in the world who can afford one, want one, Lotus will be off to the races (quite literally probably!).

T125 single seater racer didn't do very well unfortunately. Good basic idea - a low maintenance F1 car - but I think it was too frightening for those that tried it and required too much commitment and skill for most of the have yachts. Evija will be much better for crawling through Knightsbridge traffic I'm sure!

 

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, if the 130 is terrible or they can't even give them away then it will be a huge blow. However I am sure both Geely and Lotus know how important this car is and I can't imagine it will be terrible. The only question is that will there be people out there that buy it? It really need to be something special and/or game changing I think. I will never own one, way out of my price range, but I hope it ushers in some new more "affordable" Lotus.

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7 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Is a 7 figure car something Lotus dealers would handle, or would Lotus sell/service the T130 direct? What sort of mark-up would a dealer earn? It would be quite a risk to specify one for stock, so maybe they would just help you through the order form and take your deposit?

I guess this can be said from most dealers in the network but there are a few everywhere that will be completely unfazed by this car:  Weissach here in Canada sells Koenigsegg, Galpin in the US sold Spykers, Manhattan Motorcars sells Bugatti, Koenigsegg and the likes, Lotus London Hexagon should not be afraid of it either, the middle east (Emirates) dealers are also more than equipped  to handle this kind of car and this is just to name a few. Not even mentionning a few of the japanese dealers and of course Lotus of Beijing  which will require their show cars. Remembers dealer don't have to buy built cars they just have to commit to build slot.

They preempt a build and keep it as theirs and on their end they can tell their client "yes we can get you one, what's your spec?" as they buy their slot they'll get the very nice customization package that will be overnighted from Hethel, done. Hypercars don't sell like sport cars but not all clients can actually find the time to fly away to spec their cars. Beside I would go back to the newly appointed Lotus VIP sales person, this is his job to handpick which dealership can  and will be entitled to receive build slot.

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There's some really insightful points in this thread and I'm enjoying reading this thread. The hypercar market really is booming at the moment and having considered the name now for a few more days, it occurs to me that its likely a name that will appeal to its market, despite the inevitable comments that will be made about it.  As has been said, look at the Ferrari La-Ferrari.

For volume, in this market, my gut tells me 130 would be too high; but if we break that down across all the markets, my guess would be that they need enough examples of it in each in order for it to establish itself.  Lets not forget they are new to this hypercar party, too few and it won't get embedded enough with the market place to support further models if there aren't enough of them to make its name.

That the cars dimensions are modest (4.4) is very exciting to me, it means that whatever technology its packing, its something that can be used for Lotus models down the line in the short term future.  I drove an Aventador a couple of years back, and it was one of the most intimidating cars to navigate in that I've experienced - a complete contrast the Ferrari 360 I also drove that day

Personally, for styling, I really, really hope it has some sort of 'Becker point' for its front wings - i.e. visible front markers that help you gauge your turn in!

 

For the dealers, if it were my call, I'd leave the dealers out of it and go direct.  Shame the airstrips not operational anymore - could have had clients fly in like Chapman used to do!

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On 26/06/2019 at 21:57, stephenwhyte said:

I hope to goodness it’s going to be put forward to compete in the new WEC series for Hypercars🤞.......otherwise it will be a lot less relevant than it should be😬 An incredible opportunity to remarket the brand and the only reason in my view to launch a Hypercar at this time

https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/141857/the-sportscar-opportunity-that-canEURTMt-be-missed

I,m a bit late to the conversation, but I was having the same thought while watching the Le Mans TV coverage. Is the timing of Lotus entering the Hyper car sector now, just a coincidence, or is there an eye on a possible entry into the WEC, in the near future. I believe that the rules will only allow hyper cars with ICE only or hybrid, with the electric powering the front wheels only. Race versions can be based on existing road car variants or prototypes designed for racing, providing 20 road variants are produced. While the Type 130/Evija, doesn't currently qualify, being all electric. Could the chassis, aero and electrification, form the basis for a Type 13? hybrid race car, providing an internal combustion engine, can be sourced. Producing 20 road going versions, should be possible, if Lotus are proposing to manufacture 130 Evija's. Aston Martin have announced they will enter with the Valkyrie and I think Toyota, have confirmed with a specifically designed new car and McLaren are showing an interest too.
Up until now, I have always had misgivings about electric cars, range, battery life, charging infrastructure, re-sale value. I get the reduction of emissions in populated area's, but questioned just how green the whole process is. Is it like your phone or laptop, once the battery has died, you throw the car away and buy a new one, because the price of a replacement battery, is as much as a new car. Having said that, I'm beginning to except that electric cars are coming, all the major car companies are investing, the Jaguar/Land Rover announcement, just today. So I guess it is only right that Lotus should be at the crest of this technological wave.
I'm excited to see the new Evija, electric does provide hyper performance and opens up the possibility for innovation with chassis architecture and aero. it's just that lack of exhaust note, we'll have to get used to. It may seem a big leap to produce an alleged million pound plus hyper car, but Lotus has always been about innovation, so why not show off what they can do, now they have the backing.

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There's no coincidence, just a plan that the new higher ups are putting in motion. Quinfeng made it clear, motorsport is on Lotus  agenda, however commercial success will dictate the terms of engagement, if the Evija and next year sport car are a sales success, then the road may take them to Le Mans top flight division. Should the success may only be moderate or critical, then they are likely to stay in GT... Evora is getting re-homologated as a GT4 but evolving to GT3 or GT2 will be quite easy, next year sport car could make it to the motorsport arena in one form or another. 

if the top flight is retained Evija was most definitely package protected to house an ICE at the back so considering the new Le Mans hypercar rulebook making it a hybrid would be doable. However even with budget cap  it won't be cheap to race the car, it would require a full factory race program.

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I agree that it’s a sad state of affairs and a reflection in where the brand is that we have such a poor dealer network. 

I think Lotus needs to fully review the network, either cutting out the industrial estate type (ala Silverstone etc) or invest in the network and some proper facilities. Only then can the brand play in the market it wants to. 

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Chicken and egg problem though isn't it? Dealers won't invest in snazzy new showrooms until the sales numbers and profit margins are up. Existing snazzy dealers aren't interested in stocking Lotus at the moment but cars like the Type 130 can start to change that.

Silverstone is definitely one of the better dealers out there.

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19 minutes ago, Edinburgh 111s said:

I agree that it’s a sad state of affairs and a reflection in where the brand is that we have such a poor dealer network. 

I think Lotus needs to fully review the network, either cutting out the industrial estate type (ala Silverstone etc) or invest in the network and some proper facilities. Only then can the brand play in the market it wants to. 

Interesting. Leven in Edinburgh seem quite happy to be an Aston Martin dealer on an Industrial Estate in Shitehill, Edinburgh. 

So, if you were a Lotus Dealer you'd be quite happy shelling out a couple of million of your own, on spec, for a swanky new showroom then? Hardly makes good business sense given current volumes. Also, what about the fact that many of these dealers are the reason why many if us are in Lotus cars?  Amie and Matt get glowibg reports at Silverstone. Jamie at Bell & Colville and I'm sure many more worthy if note.

We seem to be forgetting where Lotus has come from. It's never really been swanky and flash. Part it its appeal. 

We're heading down the super modern route like we did with supermarkets. No almost everyone laments the demise if independent shops, with their characters on both sides of the counter and the death of the High Street.  

Not all if the current Lotus dealers are great, not all if them are bad. And the old adage if don't judge a book by its cover should apply.

Many a swanky McLaren, Mercedes, Ferrari and Porsche dealer has an awful reputation for service too. The premises don't dictate the experience, the people who run it and work there do surely.

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

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27 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Interesting. Leven in Edinburgh seem quite happy to be an Aston Martin dealer on an Industrial Estate in Shitehill, Edinburgh. 

Do they still have the Rolls dealership too?

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1 hour ago, Edinburgh 111s said:

I agree that it’s a sad state of affairs and a reflection in where the brand is that we have such a poor dealer network. 

I think Lotus needs to fully review the network, either cutting out the industrial estate type (ala Silverstone etc) or invest in the network and some proper facilities. Only then can the brand play in the market it wants to. 

I am sure that there are plenty of Volvo dealerships or sites which could be shared. 

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8 minutes ago, Bravo73 said:

I am sure that there are plenty of Volvo dealerships or sites which could be shared. 

The ones on Industrial Estates too?

29 minutes ago, tim_marra said:

Do they still have the Rolls dealership too?

Yes. 

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Plus one here. Always was a nice place to visit and wile away an hour two, even more so after the recent revamp and investment in the workshop. With the bonus of Aston next door 😊

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I agree. It’s a proper main dealer with the facilities and infrastructure you would expect. 

Whilst many may like the cheeky charm of the guys running dealers out of old industrial units like Silverstone, it’s simply not going to allow the brand to grow and attract new customers, which is what it needs so Lotus can grow and build the cars we all love. 

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What is your Problem with Lotus Silverstone? You are aware that they moved a year ago to brand new premises aren't you?

As for Leven - the Lotus dealership is hidden, sandwiched at the back between Kia, Suzuki and Mitsubishi showrooms and the techs are as likely to be working on a Kia as they are a Lotus. The Aston Martin showroom next door is a revamped near 100 year old industrial unit (and yet was still able to attain No.1 global dealer ranking for Leven for Aston Martin).

So I think this shows that's its about the people, not necessarily the premises or location. You drive to Leven past an Arnold Clark Car Supermarket on one side, a screwfix depot on the other. Wow! At least Silverstone is within the complex of one of the worlds greatest race tracks!

I really don't get this snobbery/bashing to be honest.

I bought my first Lotus from Leven (when Murray), my second from Silverstone so know both dealers quite well. The only reason my second Lotus was not bought from Leven was because they could not be arsed to sell me the car I wanted!

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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I think this is all largely irrelevant in the context of the T130. Anyone who is serious is going to be dealing direct with the factory.

Regarding Silverstone. Their new facility is really nice, so I think they’re being unfairly maligned here. The quality of the people and the service has always been top class.

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14 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

What is your Problem with Lotus Silverstone? You are aware that they moved a year ago to brand new premises aren't you?

As for Leven - the Lotus dealership is hidden, sandwiched at the back between Kia, Suzuki and Mitsubishi showrooms and the techs are as likely to be working on a Kia as they are a Lotus. The Aston Martin showroom next door is a revamped near 100 year old industrial unit (and yet was still able to attain No.1 global dealer ranking for Leven for Aston Martin).

So I think this shows that's its about the people, not necessarily the premises or location. You drive to Leven past an Arnold Clark Car Supermarket on one side, a screwfix depot on the other. Wow! At least Silverstone is within the complex of one of the worlds greatest race tracks!

I really don't get this snobbery/bashing to be honest.

I bought my first Lotus from Leven (when Murray), my second from Silverstone so know both dealers quite well. The only reason my second Lotus was not bought from Leven was because they could not be arsed to sell me the car I wanted!

Perhaps I am being unfair on Lotus Silverstone, as there are more than just them that operate out of industrial units. Their ability and the way the go about business is subjective. In my mind that type of dealer has a place In the market as a second hand supplier and Indy specialist. 

For lotus to grow they need to improve their dealer network. It needs better dealer facilities, better show rooms and a consistent customer experience. Not the “alright guvnor” experience some dealers approach their customers with today. 

I desperately want lotus to do well. But they need to review many elements of their business first, including the patchy and inconsistent dealer network. 

@C8RKH can you state as fact the the lotus techs are working on Kia and Suzuki cars, or is this just an assumption? 

7 minutes ago, Neal H said:

I think this is all largely irrelevant in the context of the T130. Anyone who is serious is going to be dealing direct with the factory.

Regarding Silverstone. Their new facility is really nice, so I think they’re being unfairly maligned here. The quality of the people and the service has always been top class.

I agree it’s better than before. Buts it’s a industrial unit and simply not the standard that lotus need to grow. 

Customer service is subjective. There are good and bad dealers out there. 

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22 minutes ago, Edinburgh 111s said:

@C8RKH can you state as fact the the lotus techs are working on Kia and Suzuki cars, or is this just an assumption?

Based on what I saw when my car was in for a service at Leven last time, the techs work on multiple brands. However, if you know different then fair enough and back it up with the facts.

I do feel that it is clear that you have an issue with Lotus Silverstone which is fine, just be honest and upfront about it. Not sure this is the right thread though and also, as you guess, I actually don't agree with your point as you seem to be happy to ignore that its OK for Leven to sell Aston from an old Industrial unit but not OK for Silverstone to sell Lotus from a new one. Just smacks of bias and prejudice really. But heh ho...

All dealers have good and bad experiences. I could tell you a few tales too re Edinburgh based on my own experiences. To me, the "experience, knowledge, and attitude of the people I deal with and who work on my car" is much more important than the "look" of the dealership. I'm still with Leven as dealing with Ian Campbell over the servicing has always been a positive experience.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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You can’t compare the Aston and Lotus showrooms of Leven to other dealers in industrial units? These are proper showrooms. 

I have never seen the lotus techs working on other brands at Leven. I don’t have a problem if they do... but we both don’t know for sure so best not to assume? 

I am no Leven fan boy... I wish there was another Lotus dealer in Scotland as they have the market cornered. 

Despite your comment, I don’t have an issue with Silverstone. All I said was the quality of service from main dealers is subjective. Just like it is for Leven and the others. I stated that if Lotus wants to grow their brand they need a better dealer network with proper showrooms and customer experience to attract new buyers and showcase their brand. 

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Back on topic chaps, thanks. 

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47 minutes ago, Bibs said:

Back on topic chaps, thanks. 

Image result for spoilsport

 

Lol - just joking with ya! 

So, of the people who have been to the FOS today, and seen the T130, what are your impressions? Personally, although I will never buy one or own one, I am really busting at the seems to see it in a 10 days or so.

I do believe it will give us design clues as to where the new cars will be going and like others, I am excited to hear it is Evora sized - i.e. something you can actually drive, hard and fast, on normal roads...

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

So, of the people who have been to the FOS today, and seen the T130, what are your impressions?

TBH, after being through the ‘show’, I don’t really know much more about the car than I did before I went in. (The videos that are shown on the screens are the same ones that we’ve already seen online - ‘For the Drivers’ etc etc). 

You see the actual car for about 30 seconds, but it’s only lit my lasers or other disco lighting so you don’t really get an idea of what you’re looking at (other than it’s got 4 wheels). When they turn the lights up at the very end (literally for a second), they also flash a strobe in your eyes. Like I’ve said already, ‘blink, and you’ll miss it’. 

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