Dyno Question

[hasuSan]

@12psi I am only getting 352 rwhp but torque is @ 348. The engine is breaking at over 6,000rpm.

We ran twice and the engine is breaking like crazy.

The dyno man suggested to change my plugs and wires. He thinks the problem is ignition.

My plug and wires are original.

The dyno man said, the car can easily put 25 to 30 more power if the engine is not breaking.

Anyway, torque of 348, what do you think?

I have Johan ECU. We cannot measure the air fuel mixture because the dyno

is maxing out (rich). Way too rich at hi-rpm (10.1)

I think Johan ECU is more for torque.

Something has to be done to ECU's rich air fuel mixture.

Thanks

Edited June 15, 2007 by HASUsan

[Günter]

@12psi I am only getting 352 rwhp but torque is @ 348. The engine is breaking at over 6,000rpm.

We ran twice and the engine is breaking like crazy.

The dyno man suggested to change my plugs and wires. He thinks the problem is ignition.

My plug and wires are original.

The dyno man said, the car can easily put 25 to 30 more power if the engine is not breaking.

Anyway, torque of 348, what do you think?

I have Johan ECU. We cannot measure the air fuel mixture because the dyno

is maxing out (rich). Way too rich at hi-rpm (10.1)

I think Johan ECU is more for torque.

Something has to be done to ECU's rich air fuel mixture.

Thanks

352 Horsepower at the wheels? what a luxury life... . with 60

[hasuSan]

I paid $125. for 4 dyno runs. The tuner said, make no sense to dyno if badly breaking at hi-rpm. I can fix the sparkplug and wires then come back to finish the 2 runs (no charge).

I will email him MOnday to send the chart.

http://www.mjmturbos.com/images/lotusV8Dyno.avi

Yes I do have 2 liquid intercooler installed.

[gmendoza]

@12psi I am only getting 352 rwhp but torque is @ 348. The engine is breaking at over 6,000rpm.

We ran twice and the engine is breaking like crazy.

The dyno man suggested to change my plugs and wires. He thinks the problem is ignition.

My plug and wires are original.

The dyno man said, the car can easily put 25 to 30 more power if the engine is not breaking.

Anyway, torque of 348, what do you think?

I have Johan ECU. We cannot measure the air fuel mixture because the dyno

is maxing out (rich). Way too rich at hi-rpm (10.1)

I think Johan ECU is more for torque.

Something has to be done to ECU's rich air fuel mixture.

Thanks

That's good tq. On 12psi of hot air I made 370rwhp @ 6.6k rpms and 324lbs of tq @ 3.2k-5.5k rpms with an 10.1 a/f near redline.

I haven't dynoed yet with the water injection.

[hasuSan]

That's good tq. On 12psi of hot air I made 370rwhp @ 6.6k rpms and 324lbs of tq @ 3.2k-5.5k rpms with an 10.1 a/f near redline.

I haven't dynoed yet with the water injection.

Your power is much better.

I replaced the plugs, they are worn out!! All plugs has wide gaps & electordes are fitted/worn.

Wide gaps will never works beyond 10psi of boost. The more gap and more boost, will result in scattered sparks. Has to be tight. The AFM is sucks, way too rich. The torque is awesome. I could have gotten more but....

I will go back, I'm waiting for magnecor wires. I say, I will be close to your 370 but will not exceed.

[gmendoza]

How many miles do you have on your car?

[hasuSan]

How many miles do you have on your car?

40,000 miles...orig plugs and wires.

[Artie]

40,000 miles...orig plugs and wires.

Did Johan's ECU tune for Chargecoolers or just for standard? If so this is part of your problem. See if Johan can tune out some fuel since you have intercoolers, my estimation is the Higher HP chips for the V8's don't figure many folks are going to put intercoolers on so the chips raise fueling to act as chemical intercooling. Also, new plugs will make all the difference for you! On my RX7, if I don't use brand new plugs on the dyno, I'll get high end break up. New plugs will net 20 or 30 HP. Wires won't hurt either.

Artie

[rwiggins951]

I have Yohan's Red Race chips. With two different widebands a/f meters I only saw it touch 10/1 very occasionally. It is still on the rich side, but not off the charts as you describe. I run 15psi most times with upgraded turbos and water injection. Not sure what the resolution is on these fuel maps above 10 psi or so, but you may want to look elsewhere for the source of all this extra fueling. Once that is ruled out, you may find that the mixture leans a touch more if you run 14psi. This might put you right in the range you want to be, provided the fuel maps are effectively maxed above 10 psi.

Just a thought.

[Paula&Marcus]

Hi,

The source of the rich fuelling (= low A/F ratio) at full throttle (= TPS > 95%) and higher boost are the secondary injectors.

When the engine goes into open loop (TPS >95%) the secondary injectors kick in and operate at a given (high) fuel pressure.

With our Red ECU (without c/coolers) you will end up around 11/1 A/F at full throttle and max boost which is just fine for this engine (without c/coolers).

I think the Johan ECU should be very similar.

Marcus

@12psi I am only getting 352 rwhp but torque is @ 348. The engine is breaking at over 6,000rpm.

We ran twice and the engine is breaking like crazy.

The dyno man suggested to change my plugs and wires. He thinks the problem is ignition.

My plug and wires are original.

The dyno man said, the car can easily put 25 to 30 more power if the engine is not breaking.

Anyway, torque of 348, what do you think?

I have Johan ECU. We cannot measure the air fuel mixture because the dyno

is maxing out (rich). Way too rich at hi-rpm (10.1)

I think Johan ECU is more for torque.

Something has to be done to ECU's rich air fuel mixture.

Thanks

[hasuSan]

I have Yohan's Red Race chips. With two different widebands a/f meters I only saw it touch 10/1 very occasionally. It is still on the rich side, but not off the charts as you describe. I run 15psi most times with upgraded turbos and water injection. Not sure what the resolution is on these fuel maps above 10 psi or so, but you may want to look elsewhere for the source of all this extra fueling. Once that is ruled out, you may find that the mixture leans a touch more if you run 14psi. This might put you right in the range you want to be, provided the fuel maps are effectively maxed above 10 psi.

Just a thought.

First and 2nd run, I've seen enough. Too many 10.1's

Worse yet, I found all plugs being fitted and gaps are too wide. Original plugs @ 40,000 miles. Stupid me, I should have known better before I dyno. I will be back sometimes.

Artie, at 13 to 15psi of boost, its safe to have an intercooler. I am not going to risk and boost 1 bar without

cooling the charge. Not really a problem having intercooler. Buying Johan's chip and boost to 1 bar without

intercooler is like Russian rollette. This is no brainer.

[Artie]

No, I agree, my point is that if the chip is tuned for a car without CC/intercooling it will be extemely rich as you are experiencing since the cooler charge is now being doused with fuel and thus running FAT/RICH! I know you know what you are doing, my point was simply that the cooling effect of your chargecoolers is helping the air density and cooling the charge, my suspicion is that the Red Race Chip/Johan's chip is fueling like there is no intercooler which means the ECU is cooling the charge with extra fuel and you have the intercoolers helping too= very rich!

Artie

[Paula&Marcus]

Hasusan,

Could you please tell me where you located your MAT-sensor after the installation of your c/coolers ???

Cheers

Marcus

First and 2nd run, I've seen enough. Too many 10.1's

Worse yet, I found all plugs being fitted and gaps are too wide. Original plugs @ 40,000 miles. Stupid me, I should have known better before I dyno. I will be back sometimes.

Artie, at 13 to 15psi of boost, its safe to have an intercooler. I am not going to risk and boost 1 bar without

cooling the charge. Not really a problem having intercooler. Buying Johan's chip and boost to 1 bar without

intercooler is like Russian rollette. This is no brainer.

[actwon]

First and 2nd run, I've seen enough. Too many 10.1's

Worse yet, I found all plugs being fitted and gaps are too wide. Original plugs @ 40,000 miles. Stupid me, I should have known better before I dyno. I will be back sometimes.

Artie, at 13 to 15psi of boost, its safe to have an intercooler. I am not going to risk and boost 1 bar without

cooling the charge. Not really a problem having intercooler. Buying Johan's chip and boost to 1 bar without

intercooler is like Russian rollette. This is no brainer.

I got Johan's ECU in my car. To offset his 10.1 ratio, I've installed an Apex'i S-AFC to control my air mixture. If you want to install one, I can get you the pin outs from my installation.

[hasuSan]

I got Johan's ECU in my car. To offset his 10.1 ratio, I've installed an Apex'i S-AFC to control my air mixture. If you want to install one, I can get you the pin outs from my installation.

Thanks Nate....Do you think this system can control or adjust the afm? Did you try using the system?

Hey, email me your address, I will send you some intercooler documentation and pictures.

Artie, I think ACTwon has the same JOhan ECU and he doesn't have intercooler. If I could remember, he bought Apex'i S-AFC to lean the AFM. I don't know if the Apex'i S-AFC solve his rich AFM problem. I bought Johans ECU knowing it will supply the necessary fuel from my projected 12 to 14psi of boost. According to what I read, his ECU is for advance users, therefore I can put an intercooler and still function the way I expect to run.

Marcus---I left the mat in the same stock position.

Thanks for all the help!

Edited June 21, 2007 by HASUsan

[Paula&Marcus]

Are you telling me that you installed C/coolers and left the MAT right after the turbos in the hottest place you can imagine ???

You are joking, right ?

To not confuse the ECU and gain benefit from intercooling the ECU has to know that the intake temps are lower than before.

Thats why the MAT has to get relocated AFTER the c/coolers.

Marcus

Thanks Nate....Do you think this system can control or adjust the afm? Did you try using the system?

Hey, email me your address, I will send you some intercooler documentation and pictures.

Artie, I think ACTwon has the same JOhan ECU and he doesn't have intercooler. If I could remember, he bought Apex'i S-AFC to lean the AFM. I don't know if the Apex'i S-AFC solve his rich AFM problem. I bought Johans ECU knowing it will supply the necessary fuel from my projected 12 to 14psi of boost. According to what I read, his ECU is for advance users, therefore I can put an intercooler and still function the way I expect to run.

Marcus---I left the mat in the same stock position.

Thanks for all the help!

[mike_sekinger]

Good job. We may have stumbled across across part of the problem......

Are you telling me that you installed C/coolers and left the MAT right after the turbos in the hottest place you can imagine ???

You are joking, right ?

To not confuse the ECU and gain benefit from intercooling the ECU has to know that the intake temps are lower than before.

Thats why the MAT has to get relocated AFTER the c/coolers.

Marcus

[hasuSan]

Are you telling me that you installed C/coolers and left the MAT right after the turbos in the hottest place you can imagine ???

You are joking, right ?

To not confuse the ECU and gain benefit from intercooling the ECU has to know that the intake temps are lower than before.

Thats why the MAT has to get relocated AFTER the c/coolers.

Marcus

Thanks Marcus,

Could be my problem but I am not sure. Actwon have the same upgrade chip and no intercooler but his

AFM is also very rich. Actwon correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited June 22, 2007 by HASUsan

[atgnat]

keep it up. i would like a burned piston to use as a paperweight.

[hasuSan]

keep it up. i would like a burned piston to use as a paperweight.

The only thing I relocated is this one (to the cold side of the intercooler)

http://www.mjmturbos.com/images/IACintercooler.jpg

Edited June 22, 2007 by HASUsan

[Artie]

The only thing I relocated is this one (to the cold side of the intercooler)

http://www.mjmturbos.com/images/aicintercooler.jpg

Linky no worky!

[mike_sekinger]

That looks like the IAT sensor, which means that the ECU is reading reading from the cold side...... I think that the aftermarket AFC route is probably best in order to trim the enrichment. Just be sure to set it up on the dyno.

The only thing I relocated is this one (to the cold side of the intercooler)

http://www.mjmturbos.com/images/IACintercooler.jpg

[hasuSan]

That looks like the IAT sensor, which means that the ECU is reading reading from the cold side...... I think that the aftermarket AFC route is probably best in order to trim the enrichment. Just be sure to set it up on the dyno.

tHANKS Mike---I think Actwon bought Apex'i S-AFC as the only solution. I don't know if he was able to solve the rich AFM with this unit. I have to figure out this problem before I get back to dyno.

Just bought an Innovate LM-1, maybe will help me a bit to pinpoint the problem (without guessing)

Edited June 22, 2007 by HASUsan

[Paula&Marcus]

Oh yes, this one actually looks like the MAT or IAT sensor.

Then you did the location right.

But 10:1 is a "bit" on the rich side.

However I feel, its not the correct way to cure symptoms that arose while doing mods with another mod ... There are already way too many modded to death Esprits out there, just MHO of course.

Marcus

The only thing I relocated is this one (to the cold side of the intercooler)

http://www.mjmturbos.com/images/IACintercooler.jpg

[hasuSan]

Oh yes, this one actually looks like the MAT or IAT sensor.

Then you did the location right.

But 10:1 is a "bit" on the rich side.

However I feel, its not the correct way to cure symptoms that arose while doing mods with another mod ... There are already way too many modded to death Esprits out there, just MHO of course.

Marcus

Appreciate your help Marcus---I know I tried my best to do it right but when problem occurs, no man is an Island. I can sensed some wants me to fail.

Actwon and Mike's advice to buy the APEXI (AFM system) sounds attractive.

Edited June 22, 2007 by HASUsan