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Future of the Evora in the USA

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6 hours ago, au-yt said:

I had the opportunity to speak directly to LOTUS's  international sales manager Mark Fullalove (yep that's his name) his comment when asked about the US market was at this point in time with only one model in the US the level of marketing will stay the same until they more models to sell.

The 400 has been getting some very good press through YouTube with Matt Farrah, and Jay Leno, is cleaver and inexpensive but not as reaching patience is the key here, yes they could sell more but the return on investment isn't there until more models are available. Makes the cars exclusive.

As for the number of dealers,  North America is the same physical size as Australia and we have 3 dealers....mine is 2 hours away.  

You have a big land mass with few inhabitants especially in the middle. The US is 27% larger with a 1300% larger population, but with about 35 dealers for an 1100% increase, so actually you have general greater coverage and closer coverage.  I live in Texas which ended up with 5 of the 11, 2017 410's sold in the USA in the hands of Texas owners, yet it is 280 miles to my dealer for warranty work.  Letting marketing slide will kill the desire for a quirky British car, and will crash the dealer network and service centers.  The car is great, if word got out and a flame lit under potential buyers than don't know what it is they will sell what's on hand plus 10 times more.  The US has so many cheaper cars from Porsche or Corvette and others to fill a need that Lotus is not able to has fill because most people don't know of its existence and then the ones that do are scared of no parts, no service .. 

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Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.

The situation will improve, as Mark said when there are more models available and that looking like 2022-3... Sadly, but Im happy with by 400 as you are with the 410 and for the time being there rare.

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So what is the USA lineup?   A 2019 Evora 400 and the GT. Or is the GT a limited edition and already sold out?

And in response to another commenter here, supercar go 0-60 in 3 seconds or less.  And I’m being generous as the 992 Porsche 911 Carrera 4s with PDK gets to 60 mph in 3 seconds.  This is quickly becoming a meaningless statistic

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I agree but with out seeming to be rude 0-60 seems the only thing that matters in the US market.

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On 12/05/2019 at 09:41, Ccd said:

If you want to see where Lotus stands in the US currently, take a look at the auction site Bring A Trailer (BAT).  Last year an 2017 Evora 400 with very few miles sold for $55,000.  There is now a 2017 with 2500 miles on auction.  With 2 days to go, bidding is at $58,000.  On this same site, Porsches regularly sell for stupidly high prices.  Announcements are not going to get it, especially when the announce is for a uber-expensive hypercar and a race car with little mention of renovation to their current line-up other than “stay tuned.”

The 17 sold for $57,750+ and had 21k miles.  Not sure what you consider low mileage.  Also had a trans replaced and was a press car used by multiple journos on and off track.  History shows past press marketing cars always take a hit.  Knowing this car had thousands of miles of abuse, it's no wonder it sold for such a figure.   I wouldn't have thought the reserve was so low as I would have personally bought it.  Rob was ready to move on and that car could have easily sold for 8k-10k more. 

The 17 with 2,500 we sold new in 18.  Car came with the rebate money of $12,500 and had a window of 98k.  So roughly 76k all in.  Bids with 5% fee was up to $66,675.  I've since put private parties together to do a deal in the low 70's.  Seller didn't lose much here. 

As you state, some cars do sell for high prices, yet some sell for bargains as well.   

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On 15/05/2019 at 21:16, Champale said:

Wow ken2020 what a mess.  Hopefully you'll get your car built the way you ordered it.  Keep us updated, please! 

I didn't get as far along in the process as you did (bailed after the "1st draft" was sent to all of us on the preorder list) but I just had a bad feeling about the whole thing.  Didn't like the "YOU NEED TO LET US KNOW ASAP" pressure tactic despite the final specs of the car being up in the air and what they did tell us was rather underwhelming as far as being much of an upgrade over my 400.  Then a few weeks ago when they knocked another 20k off the price, they asked me again.  Slightly more palatable but still I just couldn't justify the cost difference at all. 

 

Hopefully Geely will get the right executives in the right places to help market these cars.    

Hope all is well @Champale!  Please let me know if we can help in the future!  No pressure ;)

 

 

Edited by brian.s.henry

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Hey Brian - all is great, thank you!  I know it wasn't your fault that the whole process took the twists and turns that it did and that's why I really, really, REALLY hope Lotus USA gets it's act together.  

Good luck and I hope you sell a ton of them once they hit the US! 

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19 hours ago, au-yt said:

I had the opportunity to speak directly to LOTUS's  international sales manager Mark Fullalove (yep that's his name) his comment when asked about the US market was at this point in time with only one model in the US the level of marketing will stay the same until they more models to sell.

The 400 has been getting some very good press through YouTube with Matt Farrah, and Jay Leno, is cleaver and inexpensive but not as reaching patience is the key here, yes they could sell more but the return on investment isn't there until more models are available. Makes the cars exclusive.

As for the number of dealers,  North America is the same physical size as Australia and we have 3 dealers....mine is 2 hours away.

"with only one model in the US the level of marketing will stay the same" That is funny because there is NO marketing in the US. Jay Leno's video of a 2018 car posted as a 2019 Evora 400 when the car has been in the US since early 2017?....LOL!!!

Edited by CharlieBrown
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3 hours ago, Ccd said:

So what is the USA lineup?   A 2019 Evora 400 and the GT. Or is the GT a limited edition and already sold out?

And in response to another commenter here, supercar go 0-60 in 3 seconds or less.  And I’m being generous as the 992 Porsche 911 Carrera 4s with PDK gets to 60 mph in 3 seconds.  This is quickly becoming a meaningless statistic

There is not 2019 Evora 400.

The US gets...The Evora GT as a 2020 model (a slightly different version of the Evora 400)… Europe has the GT410

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5 hours ago, CharlieBrown said:

"with only one model in the US the level of marketing will stay the same" That is funny because there is NO marketing in the US. Jay Leno's video of a 2018 car posted as a 2019 Evora 400 when the car has been in the US since early 2017?....LOL!!!

Exactly, The Jay Leno video has been the biggest piece in years.

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Lotus does spend a fair amount of money in the US with internet marketing. Not much point in spending that money if they don't want to sell cars in America.  The Evora and EvoraGT are perfect examples for their lack of desire for the US market.  They also show the same mentality with a the Elise and Exige.  No reason to update the airbags. It was simply easier to just not import them.  The Elise is a amazing car to drive.  A Exige 430 must be mind blowing.  Yet, Adaptive airbags are to much of a hassle to sell a car in the US. 

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As I reflected on my own personal journey and order of the soon to be released model for the US, i want to share some perspective with the same passion expressed on this forum. It has been an up and down emotional roller coaster with Lotus on the Evora for the US market, as reflected in the forum for many of us who appreciate the uniqueness of Lotus, the cars, heritage and its journey to produce some of the finest automobiles driven on the road today. As a struggling Auto Manufacturing company, Lotus has made many mistakes but has managed to survive against incredible odds and hopefully will thrive under the new management team.

With that, I have and continue to believe the Lotus Evora is a unique car in a market that buyers ultimately have many choices and lets be clear, buying a Lotus is a choice we all make with our own money and preferences. I am anxiously waiting to receive my US SPEC Lotus Evora GT and while I still do not have the specific details of the vehicle, I know it is going to be special, fast, phenomenal to drive and rare on the streets. 

For me personally, I want the look and feel of the Evora GT 430 and have taken steps to get my newly ordered vehicle to match the Euro specs by ordering the components that are not coming to the US market for various reasons including regulatory restrictions on the parts!

So, here is the list of items that are NOT standard on the US SPEC Evora GT, front bumper, rear wing, jhook calipers, Öhlins, stainless exhaust. The good news is you can order some as dealer options and others as aftermarket parts if you choose to do so. I really am baffled by comments around not having the same vehicle here in the US and the criticism leveled at Lotus! I respect the diversity of opinions expressed here and the emotional response to the topic as everyone is clearly interested in the success and perhaps some in the failure of Lotus!

I expressed mine with the purchase of a newly minted US SPEC LOTUS EVORA GT! 

I hope many others do as well! Pictures coming as soon as I get the keys!

Kostas

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i Look at it that lotus has just been to financially strapped to spend big marketing/advertising over here.  Not that they don’t want to, simply can’t afford it.  Same thing with fitting air bags to the Elise/exige, just costs to much for a old platform that doesn’t sell to well over here.... 

 

  I own my own business and have been in that situation for the last 10 years, I need to advertise to stay alive (I own a funeral home) however being a small family owned business I do not have deep pockets like the big guys.  Thus for me I had to bite my time until the right situation arose.... I feel Lotus is in a similar situation, very difficult for the little guy to advertise, market themself or spent big money making a old platform legal in the states.  

 

Even though the release of the evora GT seems to be a flop with how it was handled..... I think and hope these as well as other issues are all in the past with the new owner and deeper pockets.  

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Lotus has redesigned its website, which should be a good thing.  But in significant ways, it is actually worse which is really quite a feat.  For starters, the website mentions the hypercar and the concept car.  HOWEVER, there is NO mention of the Evora GT.  The US website only refers to the Evora 400 which is no longer being offered!!!!!  And it gets worse.  The price of the car is not listed nor are any options (or prices for options) other than the colors the car can be ordered in.  I didn’t even see any interior pics of the car!!!  The “new” website is so bad, that one really has to question how serious Lotus is about selling the Evora GT in the USA.

To say this is half assed would be too kind and don’t try to tell me this would cost too much money because it simply wouldn’t.  The website was being redone anyway, so spend a few extra dollars and make it decent.  Good customer service should be a given as should a decent website.  Right now, Lotus appears to be lacking in both areas, at least in the USA

Edited by Ccd
Wanted to add comment about Lotus commitment to US market

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17 hours ago, NC25T said:

i Look at it that lotus has just been to financially strapped to spend big marketing/advertising over here.  Not that they don’t want to, simply can’t afford it.  Same thing with fitting air bags to the Elise/exige, just costs to much for a old platform that doesn’t sell to well over here.... 

 

  I own my own business and have been in that situation for the last 10 years, I need to advertise to stay alive (I own a funeral home) however being a small family owned business I do not have deep pockets like the big guys.  Thus for me I had to bite my time until the right situation arose.... I feel Lotus is in a similar situation, very difficult for the little guy to advertise, market themself or spent big money making a old platform legal in the states.  

 

Even though the release of the evora GT seems to be a flop with how it was handled..... I think and hope these as well as other issues are all in the past with the new owner and deeper pockets.  

The Exige is very different than the Elise we had from 2005-2011. They never tried to bring that model here (360, 430) I know tons of people that would have bought an Exige ....instead they got 911s, Corvettes and R8(V8)...fitting the airbags only to the Exige would've been a good move. 

It doesn't matter what we want in the US. Some people at the Lotus factory said..."US market? whatever"

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On 24/05/2019 at 19:44, ken2020 said:

Lotus does spend a fair amount of money in the US with internet marketing. Not much point in spending that money if they don't want to sell cars in America.  The Evora and EvoraGT are perfect examples for their lack of desire for the US market.  They also show the same mentality with a the Elise and Exige.  No reason to update the airbags. It was simply easier to just not import them.  The Elise is a amazing car to drive.  A Exige 430 must be mind blowing.  Yet, Adaptive airbags are to much of a hassle to sell a car in the US. 

Would have taken far more than "just" fitting adaptive airbags into that chassis.

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I do hate to be so negative, but all signs seems to point to a complete reboot of Lotus in the US market.  The hypercar is mentioned on the website because it is part of the reboot.  The Evora GT is not mentioned because it is merely a transition model and not part of the reboot.  Geely’s resources appear to be devoted to the rebranding of Lotus.

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@Julian73 Last I checked they were a engineering company. Surely, They could have overcome any obstacles. It seems to be more of a mindset at Hethel. A attitude that nothing is worth bowing down  to Federal regulations.  

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19 hours ago, NC25T said:

i Look at it that lotus has just been to financially strapped to spend big marketing/advertising over here.  Not that they don’t want to, simply can’t afford it.  Same thing with fitting air bags to the Elise/exige, just costs to much for a old platform that doesn’t sell to well over here.... 

 

  I own my own business and have been in that situation for the last 10 years, I need to advertise to stay alive (I own a funeral home) however being a small family owned business I do not have deep pockets like the big guys.  Thus for me I had to bite my time until the right situation arose.... I feel Lotus is in a similar situation, very difficult for the little guy to advertise, market themself or spent big money making a old platform legal in the states.  

 

Even though the release of the evora GT seems to be a flop with how it was handled..... I think and hope these as well as other issues are all in the past with the new owner and deeper pockets.  

As someone who struggled with small business limitations for years.  All small companies can be subject to the same lack of operating capital. The website is a brilliant example.  I use to struggle with web developers cost overruns and slow time lines. It can really make a stale and embarrassing situation.  However, If you attack the problem with motivation then it can be overcome. A solid state of the art website can be had for $350 and less than 100 hour of work, That is with no computer skills.  It's just a matter of motivation.

  From what I see comparing the US to Italian and Japanese markets. It's more of a lack of effort.  They are quick to brag about sales numbers in the other markets.  Markets that they don't have to respond to Federal standards.  It's merely a lack of motivation and planning. Money and more funding  is never the correct answer to fix what is broken at the core.

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C8RKH:

1) I’ll agree with you that crying over Lotus’ failure to make other models compliant with US crash regulations is a waste of time.  That ship sailed a LONG time ago.

2) HOWEVER, there is NO excuse for the current state of the Lotus USA website.  You CAN list the car you currently offer for sale in the US (Evora GT), you CAN list the price, you CAN list the options and their prices.  I know this because Lotus does all of this on YOUR country’s website!!!

3) Also you can expect good customer service for a premium product like Lotus

Points 2 and 3 are not whining, they are good business practices that Lotus will need if it has any expectations of succeeding in this or any other market.  

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Evora GT isn’t on the US Lotus website because it hasn’t been officially launched yet! When it arrives it will be the highest spec Evora available anywhere in the world. Plenty will moan that it’s ‘just a 400’ but they’ll be wrong just like people (mainly 400 owners) who said much the same thing about the GT430 in the UK.

Funny how people find it so easy to attribute highly unlikely emotions to companies. You’re all smart enough people surely you know that it’s simply a matter of the necessary development cost vs the potential rewards. Biggest issue in the US is the dealer and servicing network (or lack thereof), most potential buyers are too far away from a dealer for Lotus to be a viable consideration vs the usual alternatives. Buying a Lotus is a real long shot for most people esp in the US. You’d have to really badly want one to spend so much over a Vette, Nissan GTR etc and get a lot lees bang for your extra bucks. Potential rewards are limited currently, costs of complying with US legislation is high. Just the way Mr President likes it.

But sure, if you find it easier to believe that Lotus can’t be bothered to sell cars in the US because of some internal apathy and indifference towards the US population, stick with that!

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"Just the way Mr. President likes it".....Like Obama and his cash for clunkers --- GTFO with political BS on a car forum.

Edited by CharlieBrown
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14 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Wow - seems like some of our cousins over the pond are feeling a tad unloved!  Have you thought about:

1. The USA is NOT the centre of the world for everything and anything (we debunked the earlier comment about the value of the USA market for sports cars earlier in this thread)

2. The USA is a "fragmented" market with not just Federal rules to comply with but also local rules too making life difficult

3. To infer that to just bolt on a couple of airbags and away you go is a bit reckless really - really? In these days when a car has more computing power, sensors and an integrated data platform within it do we really think manufacturers can just "bolt on" essential safety items?

4. Boo hoo - the USA is not the focus of the marketing or product campaign right now - well, maybe, just maybe, that is because Lotus (and Geeley) are looking East and not West? Maybe they see better opportunities there? maybe it is easier to do business there (more commonality on legislation etc?). Maybe it is for a huge number of reasons that the USA is not THE focus right now. After all, you guys seem to buy more home grown sports cars than anything else, and then it's all German for you - based on real sales figures not my bias.

5. In real terms (Corporate world) not a lot of time has passed since the acquisition certainly as far as designing, building mules, testing, certifying, launching brand new car models is concerned. Maybe the web site and the US Market are not, right now, the priorities.

6. They are recruiting like crazy so obviously have a lot of work to do, a lot of plans for the future, a clear idea of where they want to get to etc. maybe they are getting their shit together before they launch products that they will never sell (Have we forgotten the Bahar approach already?)

7. New Hyper car to be launched soon. New model to be launched in less than 12 months. Let's give them a chance eh and see what they do.

Jeez - i thought the Brits owned the world record for whinging and whining.  It seems we've relinquished leadership position to the US too!  :)

Have a cold beer. Put your feet up. Worry about the batting stats in Baseball. Have some faith. Lotus will be back in the USA soon, with the best ever product it has ever made. Me, I'm going to have another cup of tea, keep calm and put the popcorn on...

 

1. The USA is not the center of the world...Just the DADDY of the world.

2. Lotus direction is to compete with Ferrari likes....FACT (Geely CEO stated it) So cars are will be out of reach for most people in the US and around the world.

3. The ones that drink beer instead of water, tea instead of milk and worry about stats (Premier League) are the Brits. 

We want to complain because it is our right here to express our points of view and mostly because we have money to burn.

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