Serious trouble V8

[Giniw]

I suspect there are recommendations in the owner manual? I would stick to what is actually written in it, even if the engine is obviously not new from factory ... I reckon it would be a good starting point anyway!

Edited December 21, 2019 by Giniw

[MD355]

Weekend update !!

on Saturday I put another 200 km which brings the total to about 400 km after the engine build.. I drove up to 3500 rpm and it was a lot of fun...

The car idles well, the engine pulls hard, there is some vibration Between 2500-3000 rpm when I try in 5th to accelarate, but I think that it is normal...

There is also some turbo lag between 2900-3200 rpm...
 

I still haven’t revved the engine over 4000 rpm so I don’t know how strong it will pull there..

With regards to traffic driving I have avoided it, but still I use the on switch for the radiator fans just to be safe.. (we installed one before because in the warm climate the engine was overheating) Has to do something with the incline positioning and size of Lotus radiator..

When I finish the break in of my engine I will reconnect the Blow Off Valves.. What do you guys think BOV or no BOV ?

 

[cweeden]

I have a pair of HKS BOVs and think they can only help reduce stress on the turbos.

[v8GTmac1]

On 19/12/2019 at 12:13, MD355 said:

Breaking in the V8 at max 3000 rpm..

My break in

Edited December 23, 2019 by v8GTmac1

[MD355]

Merry Christmas to everyone !!!!

1000 km update

i just completed 4 long runs in total 1000 km. I started with 3000 rpm, next 3500 rpm next 4000 rpm and today upto 5000 rpm for brief moments.

The best run was combined with a casino run on Tuesday night which I really enjoyed since I also won !!

The car drives very well !! It pulls hard from 2500 rpm in any gear !! It idles well and it doesn’t consume coolant or oil as before...

I still have a minor oil leak and the differential leak to deal with very soon!!

Now with regards to the turbos, I think its time to reconnect the BOV blow off valves... I sometimes get the impression of long turbo lag after gear change.. It makes sense because when the throttle body closes the compressed air has nowhere to go and it slows down the compressor... Furthermore I realized another issue with air overheating.. After 5 runs from traffic lights the ECU seems to stop boost pressure (it must open wastegates) since the air temp due to lack of intercoolers get high...

My mechanic thought the BOV leak air

However now I think its time to reconnect them. Any thoughts ?

[mike_sekinger]

Just reconnect them.  The turbos are very small and don't suffer from any real turbo lag, but if the dump valves are working correctly and you can tolerate the noise then it will help to keep them from stalling.

[MD355]

Hi Mike !! I reconnected the Blow Off Valves and the car works very well. No stalling or any other issues. And I get the cool Whoooshhh sound when I lift of the gas pedal to change gear... 

The only thing I am missing is the pops, explosions and flames from the exhaust I used to have before the engine rebuild..

I am running straight pipes without catalysts and before when I drove in 1-2nd gear at 4500 rpm , if I lifted the gas pedal and hit it again there would be a loud bang with explosions/flames at the back... It was very cool...

with the rebuild my mechanic suggested we put new fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator and MAP sensor to solve the issue we had the car not starting when hot.. We solved it, but no more flames.. Any explaination ? (Sorry but I miss those flames)

Finally one last issue, I drove in rain yesterday and tonight the right pop up light will not pop up completely. Any ideas ?

 

[Giniw]

I am unsure if something else could cause this light pod failure in the esprit, but in the Elan M100 it's a very common fault.
The pods motors gearings incorporate three little bits in plastic. And like any (?) plastic part, it becomes brittle over times, and break.

Fortunately it's a cheap and easy fix (as long as you can remove the motors from the car): you just have to open the gear casing, clean it up and insert the new three plastics rollers.

Anyway, have a look at this page to see if it corresponds to your problem:

http://wikilec.com/view/Light_motors

 

PS: as for the flames it was most probably unburnt fuel  going into the hot exhaust so it's not exactly healthy, and I guess it's much better your car behaves now ^^ (might have been a timing problem too but not sure about that if it was just when lifting the accelerator?)

Edited December 28, 2019 by Giniw

[MD355]

Thanks for your reply !! Great link !! Already told my mechanic and he is happy because this seems like an easy fix !!

I also told him about the exhaust explosions that I am missing... He jokingly suggested to change the timing.. Do you think it is really the timing that make my car create flames, only when I let the gas off abruptly at above >4000 rpm and hit it again ?? Anyway we can replicate this cool effect (please no rocks at me- this time it is me to blame !!! Hahaha) / No rocks, just flames !!! Hahaha

[Barrykearley]

If you want flames - you can add an injector into the exhaust - really don’t start adjusting the v8 timing from where it should be.

[MD355]

Could it be that the old MAP sensor was broken/malfunctioning so for safety the engine relied on ECU maps that were richer for safety, and so there was excess fuel dumped at the exhaust and flames... And now that we replaced fuel pressure regulator and MAP sensor with new, it is reading properly and giving the appropriate fuel... Experiment : if I were to disconnect the MAP sensor... what would happen ? This question is theoretical to get a better understanding.... No rocks, only flames !! Lol

[v8GTmac1]

Strait out of the manual:

 

The ECM uses an inlet manifold pressure signal to help interpret engine operating conditions and fuel requirements. The MAP sensdr is mounted directly onto the top rear of the intake plenum. ‘Absolute’ pressure is measured reletive to a complete vacuum, and is independent of atmospheric pressure. Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor Page 5 Note that manifold absolute pressure is the OPPOSITE of manifold vacuum. For example, a closed throttle on engine overrun would produce a low manifold absolute pressure (high vacuum) signal. The ECM sends a 5 volt reference signal to the MAP sensor, and by measuring the sensor output voltage is able to calculate manifold pressure. High manifold pressure produces a high sensor resistance for a higher fuel requirement. If the MAP sensor should fail, the ECM will substitute a default value and use the throttle position sensor and other sensors to control fuel delivery and provide a ‘limp home’ mode.

[v8GTmac1]

23 hours ago, Giniw said:

I am unsure if something else could cause this light pod failure in the esprit, but in the Elan M100 it's a very common fault.
The pods motors gearings incorporate three little bits in plastic. And like any (?) plastic part, it becomes brittle over times, and break.

Fortunately it's a cheap and easy fix (as long as you can remove the motors from the car): you just have to open the gear casing, clean it up and insert the new three plastics rollers.

Anyway, have a look at this page to see if it corresponds to your problem:

http://wikilec.com/view/Light_motors

 

PS: as for the flames it was most probably unburnt fuel  going into the hot exhaust so it's not exactly healthy, and I guess it's much better your car behaves now ^^ (might have been a timing problem too but not sure about that if it was just when lifting the accelerator?)

i just did this repair, $20 amazon for the gear and the 3 little rollers made of plastic. 

[MD355]

14 hours ago, v8GTmac1 said:

Strait out of the manual:

 

The ECM uses an inlet manifold pressure signal to help interpret engine operating conditions and fuel requirements. The MAP sensdr is mounted directly onto the top rear of the intake plenum. ‘Absolute’ pressure is measured reletive to a complete vacuum, and is independent of atmospheric pressure. Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor Page 5 Note that manifold absolute pressure is the OPPOSITE of manifold vacuum. For example, a closed throttle on engine overrun would produce a low manifold absolute pressure (high vacuum) signal. The ECM sends a 5 volt reference signal to the MAP sensor, and by measuring the sensor output voltage is able to calculate manifold pressure. High manifold pressure produces a high sensor resistance for a higher fuel requirement. If the MAP sensor should fail, the ECM will substitute a default value and use the throttle position sensor and other sensors to control fuel delivery and provide a ‘limp home’ mode.

So in theory let’s say I wanted to replicate the old conditions when my engine would produce explosions/flames at the back, I could install a remote control to activate/deactivate MAP sensor... When under throttle at 4500+ rpm I would lift off, the throttle body would close, the Blow Off Valves would release boost pressure to the atmosphere, and as soon as I hit the gas pedal again the ECU would only look at throttle position and deliver excess fuel which would blow up as it would hit the turbos !!! Sounds like a cool trick... (I know the pros and cons of running rich mixture.. it cools down the valves and turbos, but it could wash off oil from the cylinder walls, gas could get mixed with the oil... I have no catalysts so no worries there!!

Edited December 29, 2019 by MD355

[Barrykearley]

Be careful with theories - many folks have had those. In practice and the cold hard reality of the real world - they are often using a dust pan and brush to collect rods and pistons off the road

[mike_sekinger]

For heavens sake - be happy that the engine is running well.  Your plan sounds foolish to be honest.   If you want flames and bangs, buy some fireworks.

[Bibs]

On 28/12/2019 at 11:50, MD355 said:

let the gas off abruptly at above >4000 rpm and hit it again ??

That's a great way to snap 5th gear off! Exactly the conditions required to break the gearbox! 

[MD355]

2 hours ago, Bibs said:

That's a great way to snap 5th gear off! Exactly the conditions required to break the gearbox! 

I only do it in 1-2 gear... and not really violently... 😉

2 hours ago, mike_sekinger said:

For heavens sake - be happy that the engine is running well.  Your plan sounds foolish to be honest.   If you want flames and bangs, buy some fireworks.

You are probably right. I just miss those small explosions similar to Ferrari F40

3 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Be careful with theories - many folks have had those. In practice and the cold hard reality of the real world - they are often using a dust pan and brush to collect rods and pistons off the road

Yes, why mess with something that works... But besides all of the above, is there any other disadvantage / risk I am missing of running rich ? Does it hurts the turbos ? What about temperatures ? Oil lubrications of cylinders ?

Edited December 29, 2019 by MD355

[Barrykearley]

The v8 only needs very slight encouragement to sheer that overhanging 5th off. And treat the CWP very very gently - as it’s very easy to smash a tooth (or several bits off several) - I’ve still got a collection of garage art from my V8 gearbox in the garage

[MD355]

To be honest I also managed to break the CWP in March !! The problem with the Esprit it that it handles and grips very well !! Whereas on the slippery roads in my neighborhood my Ferrari 360 Modena will drift nicely at aroundabouts, the Esprit just hangs on and hangs on until something breaks... I upgraded to LSD , but I think the CWP is still the same factory code... My mechanic blames the previous owner for the CWP failure

[MD355]

Here are the photos of my broken CWP from March 2019 and the weak gearbox of the V8

[Lonfas2]

Depends on how an engine is rebuilt- factory specs, loose or tight, regarding clearances. Do you really think there is a “break in period” on performance race engines? Don’t think so. You wanna win you smash the gas. Like Mario says “winning is driving to the point of almost out of control”. But, since you’re driving a grocery getter, and not competing, just being chill with the first few oil changes can’t hurt either. Also depends on type of rings being used- chrome are sometimes difficult to seat correctly and moly rings seat rather easy. I’ve always used moly rings and could hammer it out of the gate with a fresh rebuild no problems at all. You want a high performance ride, “learn how to turn-wrench’s”. 

[Jacques]

Here's some sound advice for free:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N44icPfGi1M

Still want to do it? Then write your bloodtype in fireretardent thread on the belt of your racing suit and buy a corvette for that purpose and enjoy  When you are done with that, go get the keys for the Esprit and take a drive on twisty back roads, not a straight freeway, and show the corvette how propper driving is done, with no sparks and flames. That's when the real fun begins.

Kind regards,

Jacques

 

 

[MD355]

You are right !! 

My cars drives so well now, that I don't want to mess with it...

I've see this video... hillarious !! very unlucky dude !!

BTW my mechanic fixed the pop-light, it turned out to be the front hood that pushed against the right light not allowing it to go up all the way !! some adjustment and it is all set !!

[Mightymetro]

Well done on your perseverance with the car 👍🏻 Looks great and hope you really enjoy it.  I’m in the same situation and can’t wait to get her back .