Serious trouble V8

[MD355]

32 minutes ago, mike_sekinger said:

My jaw is open..... 

Are you sure that the correct IMS bolt has been used? It could be that the thread is bottoming before reaching sufficient clamp.  I'm assuming that the flywheel is locked while torqueing the bolt. 

I would also recommend to fit a Scotch Key on the IMS and primary drive pulleys to ensure that they cannot drift even without 100% clamp.

There is a great and simply tool developed by Gonzalo Mendoza for drilling the IMS and pulley's in-situ.   I have one you can borrow if you like.

Your builder needs to be very careful not to force any apparent interference, while he re-establishes the correct crank/cam timing.

Thank you Mike for your prompt reply !!!

My understanding is that we need to implement the scotch key !! I assume it is not available for sale, so we have to build it right ?

(I told my mechanic about it and he started cursing because he has to do dismantling !!! )

Thank you for being kind to me !!

I put some photos that I found of the scotch key !! Again I am tempted to ask, why didn't the factory put this in the first place, if there was risk of the bolt loosening itself...

 

[mike_sekinger]

Tell your mechanic not to panic.    It is a modification that can be performed without removing the front cover.  The tool that Gonzalo designed, allows you to drill the pulleys and IMS in-situ to the desired depth.  It is a great safeguard, but sufficient clamp should be possible anyway.  This safeguards the possibility that the IMS bolt does not have sufficient clamp sometime in the future or as a result of servicing where the full torque is not applied.

As I offered, I can send you the drill jig to borrow if you want.

[MD355]

I just told my mechanic about your kind offer, and he wanted to ask you how can this be done ?

He believes that it is stainless steel with treatment and it has to be removed and taken to machinist to be safely drilled...

Can you send me pic of this tool you mentioned ?? Thanks !!

[mike_sekinger]

Sorry, but your mechanic is a self opinionated Mother****er.  Having decide to go his own way, he now has issues and still wants to argue on each point of help offered.

I hope that he doesn't kill your engine.

Edited November 8, 2019 by mike_sekinger

[andyblackman777]

2 hours ago, MD355 said:

URGENT HELP NEED :

Good morning my friends !!

Today my mechanic called me about a problem he experienced.

As he was about to put the timing belts on the engine (with the marks he had made before he disassembled the engine) he realized that as he rotated the engine after 5 rotations the bolt that holds the pulleys of the timing belts would come loose and the timing belts would stop moving !!!

He applied the correct torque to that bolt (see picture) but still even the slightest resistance from the compression of the engine would make this nut come loose...

He removed the spark plugs (no resistance anymore from compression) and the engine and timing belts rotated normally... So there is no obstruction to the piston movement...

So my question is : What are we doing wrong about this nut that holds the two pulleys of the timing belts (please see pictures) ?

Now my mechanic had to remove the valve covers, so he decided to time the engine as the factory recommended... What page on Workshop Manual is the timing process of the factory ?

All responses and help are welcome, but I would appreciate if you don't attack me or my mechanic for making any mistakes !! Many thanks in advance !!!

 

Watch this video, he shows how to make a key for the intermediate shaft pulleys.I think its the same guy that made the tool that Mike has.

 

[mike_sekinger]

Yes - that's Gonzalo.

[jonwat]

Thanks for that great video, why do the belts have to be tensioned  with the crank at specific positions?

[MD355]

1 hour ago, mike_sekinger said:

Yes - that's Gonzalo.

Please check you inbox !!! Many thanks !!!

[MD355]

Anyone would like to give me some additional advice how to make the drill with the drill jig ??

Is it easy ?? What exact tools do you use ?

How do you make the pin ??

Feel free to give any info, because the excellent video of Gonzalo does not show the actual drilling process... Thanks !!!

[cweeden]

3 hours ago, jonwat said:

Thanks for that great video, why do the belts have to be tensioned  with the crank at specific positions?

I am guessing it is to with the position of the cams against the valve springs to ensure a consistent resistance, just my guess though. 🙂

cheers

-Chris

32 minutes ago, MD355 said:

Anyone would like to give me some additional advice how to make the drill with the drill jig ??

Is it easy ?? What exact tools do you use ?

How do you make the pin ??

Feel free to give any info, because the excellent video of Gonzalo does not show the actual drilling process... Thanks !!!

Hi Makis,

I would expect you need to find an engineering shop that can make up the tool (or borrow Mike's). I don't think there is a huge amount of rocket science required. Some careful measurements to make sure you know the offset of the guide hole and a mechanism for controlling the depth of the drill. You can choose the diameter of the drill in combination with the pin you intend to use (have made), I would expect this does need to be a reasonably tough piece of metal to make sure it doesn't wear or deform over time although the load should be minimal if the bolt is doing it's job correctly.

cheers

-Chris

[LotusFella]

6 hours ago, andyblackman777 said:

Watch this video, he shows how to make a key for the intermediate shaft pulleys.I think its the same guy that made the tool that Mike has.

 

WOW how could lotus design an engine that lets the intermediate shaft spin like that if the bolt comes loose!!!

 

[Sparky]

It's not uncommon - some manufacturers do it with cranks and cams.

[LotusFella]

it just pisses me off.  No need for it!

[MD355]

3 hours ago, cweeden said:

I am guessing it is to with the position of the cams against the valve springs to ensure a consistent resistance, just my guess though. 🙂

cheers

-Chris

Hi Makis,

I would expect you need to find an engineering shop that can make up the tool (or borrow Mike's). I don't think there is a huge amount of rocket science required. Some careful measurements to make sure you know the offset of the guide hole and a mechanism for controlling the depth of the drill. You can choose the diameter of the drill in combination with the pin you intend to use (have made), I would expect this does need to be a reasonably tough piece of metal to make sure it doesn't wear or deform over time although the load should be minimal if the bolt is doing it's job correctly.

cheers

-Chris

Anyone have a video of actually using the Gonzalo drill jig to make the hole ??

[ramjet]

I hate to say it Makis, but if you are dealing with a traded mechanic that does not know how to do a Scotch key, you might want to find someone else. I was doing Scotch keys in the second year of my apprenticeship nearly 37 years ago and we did not have a jig to assist.

A question that I do have and this may be one for @mike_sekinger, is how are the intermediate shaft pulleys timed to be in the correct position for the timing of the inlet and exhaust cams?

Gonzalo finishes with them a half tooth out of sync with each other, but unless I am blind or fell asleep, I didn't see where any timing procedure was used to set the correct position of these pulleys?

[mike_sekinger]

The position of the primary drive pulley's do not need to be synced with the cam pulleys prior to clamping, as neither are indexed.  Once the position of the primary drive is fixed, the procedure allows for the cam pulley to be dragged to take up any belt slack before being clamped in position.

[v8GTmac1]

This new topic puzzles me as well. I had a machine shop install my pin. Never even a thought that I could do it myself. If you look at my pic, please ignore the small bearing and bushing next to it. 

Like Mike said, I locked the pulleys with the teeth at equal positions just out of preference and so my machinest wouldn’t have to ask me later.  

 

Now onto  to this topic I have to wonder if there is too much sealant inside the shaft that is keeping the bolt from reaching its desired depth? Because you do need a specific sealant for that bolt thats mentioned in the manual which I am not next to currently. 

I torqued to 75 ft Lb and I didn’t used the special tools. Sorry but my methods go back some years. Just jammed up 2 pistons without the cams in place, it’s done and done. 

Edited November 9, 2019 by v8GTmac1

[v8GTmac1]

On 08/11/2019 at 07:09, MD355 said:

Anyone would like to give me some additional advice how to make the drill with the drill jig ??

Is it easy ?? What exact tools do you use ?

How do you make the pin ??

Feel free to give any info, because the excellent video of Gonzalo does not show the actual drilling process... Thanks !!!

I bought a 3/16” pin from a hardware store. I believe it was a bit long and he had to cut to correct length.  You can use whatever size you feel is not too thick. 

Edited November 9, 2019 by v8GTmac1

[andyblackman777]

I guess you could cut a piece of the correct size stainless bar. (the shank of a bolt or something.) Or when the drill bit snaps off just tighten the whole thing up 👍😜

[v8GTmac1]

So a good drill bit and patience using this custom drilling jig. 

Either cobalt or molybdenum drill bit in the same size as your pin or whatever it is called your area. 

[MD355]

URGENT HELP !! 

We just saw with my mechanic the process to fix the timing on the Esprit V8 based on the Workshop manual and it requires these tools :

T000T1339F CRANKSHAFT LOCATION PIN for CAMSHAFT TIMING

T000T1345F 'TOLERANCE PIN' CAMSHAFT TIMING  x 4

This is quite expensive, almost 300 GBP.

(They told me I need 8 pieces for the Camshaft, not 4. why is that ?)

Any chance I could get them somewhere cheaper ?

Thanks !!

 

 

 

[Giniw]

(I just checked and apparently £298+VAT is already the SJS alternative kit?)

[mike_sekinger]

PNM kit - 100GBP + VAT and shipping

http://www.pnmparts.co.uk/esprit/esprit-v8-sport-350-96-04/lotus-v8-cam-timing-kit-1339

[MD355]

You are my life saver !!! Thanks

[Barrykearley]

I thought he had umm marked up the pulleys 🧐

I really do hope this all ends well for you