Serious trouble V8

[MD355]

New issues... Guess this was coming up..

Today my mechanic got the car up on the lift to start the final part of connecting everything to the engine..

He tried his best to remove the oil radiators but the connector broke off..

He sent me photo.. Apparently the rust had completely eaten that part.. 

Tomorrow I will go check it out to see what options we have..

 

[sailorbob]

A very common problem with the dissimilar metals of the oil cooler and the hose union. It is caused by galling rather than rust eating the parts. The union can be saved by dissolving what is left of the aluminium thread using a sodium hydroxide solution (read up on the hazards before trying this!) but the oil cooler is usually not worth the effort of trying to salvage it.

[Barrykearley]

13 hours ago, MD355 said:

New issues... Guess this was coming up..

Today my mechanic got the car up on the lift to start the final part of connecting everything to the engine..

He tried his best to remove the oil radiators but the connector broke off..

He sent me photo.. Apparently the rust had completely eaten that part.. 

Tomorrow I will go check it out to see what options we have..

 

Cut the pipe and use a new clamp on end. A simple 5 minute job that costs very little

[MD355]

14 hours ago, sailorbob said:

A very common problem with the dissimilar metals of the oil cooler and the hose union. It is caused by galling rather than rust eating the parts. The union can be saved by dissolving what is left of the aluminium thread using a sodium hydroxide solution (read up on the hazards before trying this!) but the oil cooler is usually not worth the effort of trying to salvage it.

Hi can you please explain to me how we can remove the broken part from the pipe ? What is sodium hydroxide solution and how is this process done ? My mechanic is very disappointed because he says he needs to remove the bottom covers of the car go get access to the oil pipes to replace them.. The screws that hold the bottom part are rusted.. so we are scr@wed as well !! Thanks

[MD355]

1 hour ago, Barrykearley said:

Cut the pipe and use a new clamp on end. A simple 5 minute job that costs very little

My mechanic said that it is not going to work because the clamp is not going to hold tight and it is going to leak..

[sailorbob]

If you search the forum for 'caustic soda' there are several threads where people have used it to dissolve the aluminium. I cannot recall if anyone gave the dilution ratio and/or the temperature they used so that will probably have to be found by trial and error.

[Chillidoggy]

As above, I used about 25% caustic to water to make a thick solution, and dangled the pipe end in the container. The solution eats the alloy, but it might need refreshing every so often.

Wear a mask, gloves and goggles, it will give you a chemical burn if you get it in your skin or in your eyes.

[MD355]

It seems everyone on this board has experienced this issue at some point... Great to hear your feedback !! I will let you know how it turns out

Some photos from my visit today

[Barrykearley]

6 hours ago, MD355 said:

My mechanic said that it is not going to work because the clamp is not going to hold tight and it is going to leak..

Utter bollox - it’s not leaking on mine 👍 and it’s well documented on other threads and plenty of other folks have done the same

6 hours ago, sailorbob said:

If you search the forum for 'caustic soda' there are several threads where people have used it to dissolve the aluminium. I cannot recall if anyone gave the dilution ratio and/or the temperature they used so that will probably have to be found by trial and error.

Outside - loads (Calibrated loads!!) of caustic in a pot - stand well back with protective gear and lump in boiling water - 15mins later it’ll be sorted.

be very careful - must be ventilated and outside - and caustic reacts violently with hot water

[MD355]

1 hour ago, Barrykearley said:

Utter bollox - it’s not leaking on mine 👍 and it’s well documented on other threads and plenty of other folks have done the same

 

My mechanic explained to me that inside the oil line there are some wires / wire mesh (if I understood correctly) and this is not going to work with the clamp...

The only way to make it work is to remove the oil line and take it to a special shop that has a special tool...

I asked him if he could bring over the special tool to make it on the spot... He said not possible...

(Any rock throwing please aim at towards my mechanic... I am just the middle-man / messenger !!) LOL

P.S. I was just on the phone with my mechanic and told him that my friend Barry on Lotus Forums said that it worked !! His response was that if we do it, and let's say that in the shop at 3 bar pressure it works, and we take the car out for a spin and we get 4 bar pressure and all of a sudden the oil connection leaks 7 liters of oil, all the oil goes to the wheels and the cars behind us, we crash, and even if we don't crash, the engine seizes due to oil starvation. His question was "do you accept responsibility ?" 

He said there is another technique which makes it safe connection which he will explain to me tomorrow..

Edited December 10, 2019 by MD355

[Barrykearley]

You use a fitting like this and quality jubilee clamps

its under very little pressure - it’s most certainly not thousands of psi like in a digger hydraulic hose - it’s more like 30psi at most. And since the size of the hose is far bigger than the oil galleries the pressure reduces 

[MD355]

I just sent him you pic!! He likes it !! He will get back to me tomorrow with an questions.

[drdoom]

6 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

You use a fitting like this and quality jubilee clamps

its under very little pressure - it’s most certainly not thousands of psi like in a digger hydraulic hose - it’s more like 30psi at most. And since the size of the hose is far bigger than the oil galleries the pressure reduces 

Wee word of caution here, oil pressures may hover in the realm of 30psi when all is warm but may possibly overshoot by a good measure upon start-up in very cold weather. Less of an issue with synthetics typically used these days though I know of an instance in which a remote, cast aluminum filter was fractured by pressure spike with 20W-50 racing oil some years ago.

Cheers 

[MD355]

9 minutes ago, drdoom said:

Wee word of caution here, oil pressures may hover in the realm of 30psi when all is warm but may possibly overshoot by a good measure upon start-up in very cold weather. Less of an issue with synthetics typically used these days though I know of an instance in which a remote, cast aluminum filter was fractured by pressure spike with 20W-50 racing oil some years ago.

Cheers 

My mechanic said there is a special connector for the oil line that is called *spelling* Ergal... check out the photo.. he said he will bring a guy over tomorrow to see it

[sailorbob]

Hoses with push on fittings are typically rated at 200 psi and some manufacturers give higher ratings. I use JIC push fit unions with double wire hose clamps on my oil cooler hoses and do not worry about it. Also, bear in mind that most oil coolers are only rated at 150 psi so if there is a pressure spike due to the oil pump relief valve sticking then the failure is like to occur there first.

[Barrykearley]

Those are swaged on ends - there’s nothing wrong with barbed and clamped fittings in the application you are looking at. You will blow an oil cooler far sooner than blow a properly fitted hose 

[v8GTmac1]

r

My solution. 

I have no lift access and the front end was not coming off this time around. 

used push lock 10an fittings with added screw clamps because at 70psi cold pressure the hoses blew off!! 

I shortened that hose btw. Looks better now. It catches air from a home made duct

Edited December 10, 2019 by v8GTmac1

[Barrykearley]

3 hours ago, MD355 said:

P.S. I was just on the phone with my mechanic and told him that my friend Barry on Lotus Forums said that it worked !! His response was that if we do it, and let's say that in the shop at 3 bar pressure it works, and we take the car out for a spin and we get 4 bar pressure and all of a sudden the oil connection leaks 7 liters of oil, all the oil goes to the wheels and the cars behind us, we crash, and even if we don't crash, the engine seizes due to oil starvation. His question was "do you accept responsibility ?" 

He said there is another technique which makes it safe connection which he will explain to me tomorrow..

Frankly reading about the previous posts about this particular “mechanic” I’d say his professional judgements are questionable at best. This is a simple oil line - under very little pressure due to the flow rates and the diameter of that pipe. If he’s struggling with this concept then maybe he should consider a training course

[MD355]

I think in this thread my mechanic is the most misunderstood person... I bet if you got to know him in person you would like him !! He is a very good mechanic, and he always gets the work done no matter how difficult it may be... True, he sometimes insists on some things, but he will always accept my suggestions and help which come from this board and I am thankful for that...😉

[cweeden]

While the push fit might be perfectly fit for purpose, if there is another way that gives you more peace of mind I wouldn't argue against it.

BTW your car looks to be in very good condition from the photos, very clean underneath. I am more than a little bit green with envy. 🙂

cheers

-Chris

 

[Jacques]

I had to undo the two oil coolers on my SE, and no matter what I tried, they wouldn't. So deliberately broke off the aluminium studs from the oil coolers, and was basically left at where you are now.

I bought two new original oil coolers, added some wera high temp thread antiseize on the threads, and then I bought two jars of glass in the local supermarket. I also bought 1 bottle of caustic soda in pearl form, and made a fairly heavy solution into the now empty and cleaned glass jars.

Beware: it matters if you add destilled water on to the caustic soda or the opposite. In any case, be very carefull!

Then slowly lowered the two oil lines with it's rusty steel fittings with the bonus of aluminium threads inside, into the jars. 10 to 12 minutes later they were totally as new. No trace of any aluminium , no rust. all shiny and ready to be cleaned thoroughly. I mean that.

But the downside was that I was doing all this inside my garage, albeit with a large open gate. Despite my equipment, not enough ventilation, and I felt a strong alkaline taste in my mouth, throat and lungs. Quickly drove like a maniac to the emergency room and immediately got a thorough treatment and several hours of them monitoring my blood, lungs, respiration etc. Fortunately I got free of any damage. So in the end no harm was done, in my case. But that is unfortunately not always tthe case, as many prople use this cheap chemical which can be bought at many shops, to clean their drain in the kitchen or bathroom. Do not feel tempted to make a strong solution.

This caustic soda in a strong solution, east human tissue and bones non-stoppable for up to 72 hours, the doctor told me, looking really worried on my behalf and after having called the national poison tel. line for extra advice They also told me that some dictators use this stuff to dissolve human remains, as well as being used for left overs from a slaughterhouse in some cases, despite being illegal.

Look, I cannot warn you enough. It's serious alkaline stuff. You need thick special suit, chemical mask, chemical gloves, eye protection, the lot.

And it works perfectly.

It'll cost you a fiver, done correctly. If not, it may cost you your life, having destroyed lungs.

Would I do it again? yes, done the right way.

Choice is yours. You are now warned.

Cheers,

Jacques

ps: I wouldn't use a screw clamp if I could avoid it.

[MD355]

Today’s update :

First the bad news !! The pipe connector was completed damaged. The extent of the damage made it not possible to save.

And the good news !! The new connector was made and it looks great !!

And the new connector (we are waiting for the adapter)

[cweeden]

Looks great as you say but what are you going to screw it to? 

[MD355]

My understanding is that my mechanic will find male-male adapter

[MD355]

Final photos before the moment we have all been waiting for the last 5 months..

in the first photo notice the weird sponge above the front radiator... Looks like a weird solution for noise reduction...

Check out how nice and clean the car looks... Of course decat (silenced) with test pipes.. Best setup in my opinion