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Calling All S1/S2/Pre '85 S3 Owners Worldwide! - Page 6 - Suspension/Brakes/Wheels/Hubs/Steering/Geo - The Lotus Forums Jump to content


Calling All S1/S2/Pre '85 S3 Owners Worldwide!


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Dave

I really think you have to trust Lotus here and if they say they need 75 commitments that's what it'll have to be. Sounds easy just going to order 25 sets, but do you really think someone like Koni or Eibach are going to do a special run for 25 at a good price? If manufacturers found it that easy to do short runs then we wouldn't have a lack of Goodyears for our cars as one example.

Lotus are extremely friendly and supportive to us and in general owners of all the older models. Can you imagine Ferrari even contemplating doing this work with modern technologies to support 308 owners?

I actually agree with you that the data must be nearly there, but at the end of the day Lotus are a commercial organisation and in my opinion are in a difficult place here. You could argue that they have spent the money on testing already so why not just get them made. Don't forget though that to commit a supplier to make them, that supplier will want a payment guaranteed. Lotus have to then do the sums and see how many they can sell against how much money they recoup. The problem is if they go ahead without guarantees of what they can sell, they risk incurring further losses. I have no ideas what their accountancy processes are, but if they say the "tipping figure" to go ahead is 75, then I think we have to respect that.

I for one totally trust their judgement.

If you are willing to pay for a set then I ask you to please show your support in the way listed and add your name to the list?

Regards

Mat

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  • 2 weeks later...

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Thats correct, it would be difficult to get the springs right first time. Also, on the pre-85 the lower link twists as it goes up and down as its located front-rear by the ARB. So the lower shock

So it's looking like nothing will ever come of this? What a tragedy! I have a 1978 Esprit S2 that needs a suspension overhaul and I would have snapped up a Bilstein/Eibach setup in a second.

Has there been any update on this? If we could hold of the specs, could we not get some made etc? 

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Just to be sure -- I have made my commitment (#22 or so on the list), and it remains in full effect. Lotus can feel free to call on me and request full payment up front, no problem! That would, by far, be my preferred method.

However, if 75 never happens, which appears likely, then what to do? Continue to suck the hind teet? I can't believe there isn't a pre-existing Koni/Bilstein/Boge/etc. that doesn't meet the physical size fitment parameters, and can be re-valved based on the research... and yes, I think 25 would be a big enough number to work a deal on that revalving.

And... as for the springs, same-same. If we're loved so much by Lotus, but don't have the numbers to warrant action, then make known the specs, and let's talk to Eibach/H&R/etc. to see what pre-exists in something close to those specs. And of course there's plenty of race shops that make their own coils that might be able to help.

Just trying to keep the interest up!

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I do agree with you Dave from a personal perspective, however Lotus have sunk an amount of cash into the development and testing work. To just release the specs for suspension manufacturers to "pattern produce" effectively writes off that cash, whereas if they proceed to sell themselves they stand a chance of recouping something. As I said above it's a commercial decision.

Personally I'm with you, my car is under rebuild at the moment and I need the new suspension and like you I can't hang on forever. When I consider all the other support from Lotus I've personally benefited from (parts at dirt cheap prices in the sale etc) I've got to say I do respect the decision by Hethel that 75 is the "tipping point. I might not like it but it's their choice.

Regards

Mat

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Matk,

really I can't understand how it's possible that there are not 75 members/owners interested....

I think that the only chance for us to have the kit from Lotus will be to speak again with supplier and specialist like SJ, JAE, etc...to see if they are interested to buy for sure something like 10 kit.

Anyway, there are a lot of members here (me too) that are restoring a car and I think it would be a good idea to fix a end date for this commitment list.

We are all enthusiast about Factory dedication and kindness regarding our cars, but frankly, can you imagine at least 10/15 members with the bare chassis waiting on stands looking at the list every day in the morning to see the update ....maybe 30...35....40...but when?

I think that maybe a end date will keep the interest high also and it's more correct for the members.

(For example, Coilsprings UK...they are able to supply a full set of coil springs for the Esprit S1/S2 with exactly the same factory specifications but with improved material for about 140 GBP the full kit...)

What do you think about?

Cheers

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm with Giorgio on this - we need a cut off date...

I need to sort my suspension and if we're not going to hit 75 (I figure I fully understand Lotus setting as a tipping point) I'll get the SJs set - but I doon't want to do this whilst I have my commitment registered here...

Come on peeps - you may not need a set right now - but one day you will - lets get enough names to ensure we keep the best handling posssible for our cars...

Oh and still now answer on whether they'll accomodate the early Turbos - or am I being dim??

Iain

"... the Lotus Turbo (Esprit) owner will not only be comfortable in fast company, but will find, more often than not, that he has no company at all!" Road and Track magazine

1983 Turbo Esprit - Silver - 'Lottie' Featured in Classic and Sportscar Aug 2008 and Wheeler Dealers.

1999 Elise - Norfolk Mustard - 'Liz' Daily driver - 221,000 miles and counting!

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What happens if a decision date is set, and it arrives without the 75 names required. Do you want Lotus to say that's it, project canned? In my opinion this would be totally counter productive. If it takes 6 weeks/6months/6 years to reach the 75 fig, it's still a worthwhile exercise. My personal view is that this is not Lotus's fault, if insufficient owners express their wish for this then I don't see what Lotus can do.

I fully understand if you need to go elsewhere and can't wait, don't forget I'm in exactly the same boat. Sooner or later I'm going to have to make a decision to go elsewhere if the Lotus suspension isn't available. When that time comes then I will still keep my name on the list as I will still have the Lotus suspension anytime it becomes available.

If however you guys go elsewhere and then consequently don't want to commit to the Lotus suspension, I'd fully understand at that point if you took your names off this list.

Franky, I totally agree with you, there must be loads of owners who would benefit from this, but sadly, if they won't place their names here we can't force them. I doubt a "decision date by" is going to be any more persuasive.

I'm just as dissapointed by the response as you and Iain.

Regards

Mat

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Matk,

I agree with you that the time it's not a Lotus factory problem....but it's our...

I think that the way you suggest it's good but only for the members that are restoring a car that are free to choose the day until they want to wait for the kit.

But in my opinion this it's unrealistic and there are few chance that the number will go in the right way....

This topic was started ONE year ago...and today there are something like 25 name on the list, if I must consider that every day there is the chance for any member on this list to go away from there to buy suspension from other specialist...in my opinion this list will be unuseful for a long time...maybe ever.

I think that if a cute off date it's not good maybe we can ask to all the members on the list to stay here within one year for example, so even if all the members that are restoring a car go away for another source, they are still commitment the kit so there is still the chance for all the others members that are interested for other reason and that are not in hurry for this.

Maybe we can pay some money in advance...

I don't know if it will work, but maybe we can try....

(sorry for my english)

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1. Tony K

2. Esprit S2 (Paul Baxter)

3. Troy

4. Peteyg (Pete Gentilli)

5. yeller77 (Eric)

6. matk

7. ghe67 (giorgio)

8. dwil

9. Matwatts

10. Mark p

11. beagle!

12. Franky (Esprit S2 JPS)

13. JeanVM (Esprit S1)

14. Mundo

15. LOTUS

16. Rich S.

17. Mikes2esprit1979

18. scottmgibb

19. orionflyer74

20. Ian Munro

21. Rogue_S1 (Rob Roy, Esprit S1)

22. HotShoe (Dave Coleman, '78 S1

23. AdamLHelton (Esprit S1)

24. Rohan Hodges (1978 Esprit S1 1/2)

25. Iain Ogilvie (1983 Turbo Esprit)

26. djc

Regards

Mat

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Add me to the list. The mechanicals and cosmetics have all finally been done on my 78, its time for a suspension upgrade at this resonable price. As list owner I will also prod the 8 year old,400+ membership of the S1S2euro S3 list that I have on Yahoo. Regards all, Dennis

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Dennis

Many thanks for your help on this, we need every bit of support we can find!

1. Tony K

2. Esprit S2 (Paul Baxter)

3. Troy

4. Peteyg (Pete Gentilli)

5. yeller77 (Eric)

6. matk

7. ghe67 (giorgio)

8. dwil

9. Matwatts

10. Mark p

11. beagle!

12. Franky (Esprit S2 JPS)

13. JeanVM (Esprit S1)

14. Mundo

15. LOTUS

16. Rich S.

17. Mikes2esprit1979

18. scottmgibb

19. orionflyer74

20. Ian Munro

21. Rogue_S1 (Rob Roy, Esprit S1)

22. HotShoe (Dave Coleman, '78 S1

23. AdamLHelton (Esprit S1)

24. Rohan Hodges (1978 Esprit S1 1/2)

25. Iain Ogilvie (1983 Turbo Esprit)

26. djc

27. ALOOFS2 (Dennis Fresch)

Regards

Mat

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I have to say that in my process of restoring my S2 JPS I needed new suspension, so I went for it (SJS) so I can finish my car and use it... (could not wait)

...by the time the Lotus upgrade will be available, I'll go for it and replace it...

...if it comes soon, it will be allways good to have a spare suspension...

Franky

Lotus Exige S2

Lotus Esprit S2 JPS #27 -restoration process-

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I have to say that in my process of restoring my S2 JPS I needed new suspension, so I went for it (SJS) so I can finish my car and use it... (could not wait)

Needs must Franky... i was in the same situation.

My car had new dampers all round but it was hitting the bump stops on the front.

I got Lotus to put a set of front springs and dampers on from SJ and configure the geometry and while they are the best that

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I have read it allready but had no other choice :devil:

...as I said...when this upgrade goes real...I'll go for it...but I want my car to be finished and running!!!!!!!!!

Edited by Franky

Franky

Lotus Exige S2

Lotus Esprit S2 JPS #27 -restoration process-

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It would be a real shame if Lotus do not get enough interest to commercialise the redeveloped spring / shock package.

However it should not be beyond the Esprit community and the usual specialist suppliers to come up with a good alternative. The Elan community has a good choice of options from specialists such as Dave Bean and Tony Thompson and others that suit a range of uses and range of tyres from traditional original 1960's style to modern sticky lower profile rubber.

The Esprit is challenged as to what tyres to use when designing a suspension upgrade. You appear to have a choice of a few tyres in near the original sizes ( eg Goodrich Radial T/A and Yoko Y352) most of which are really designed for much heavier 1970's muscle cars and are too hard for an Esprit. One type similar to original tyres (Fuldas) and one modern sticky 14 inch tyre that fits but is smaller in diameter in Toyo RA1's 205 /55 front and 225/50 rear. The alternative is you replace the wheels and go to 15 /16 / 17 inch wheels where the choice of tyres is larger - but I want to keep my speedline style wheels.

I am going down the Toyo route. This will require new front and rear springs or at least spring spacers to get the ride height up a little as it will probably to low and end up wiping out my front spoiler. Longer front springs and more travel will not hurt as lotus compromised the original travel to achieve their target bonnet line given the tyres avalaible. Not sure about lift the rear a little but i dont think it will hurt the geometry.

With modern sticky tyres the Esprit could do with stiffer springs at least at the front and stiffer front roll bar and I will explore that overtime. I not as good a suspension developer as Lotus and it may take me a few years to find my optimum but it can be done with a little time. The specialist Lotus suppliers with Esprit racing experience and road development experience should be able to do it much quicker and better than me.

Regardless I will still buy the Lotus package if it becomes available as it gives me another reference point

cheers

Rohan

Edited by Rohan
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  • 3 weeks later...

I would love to order springs & shocks for my S1 BUT for me tyres are a bigger problem - what is the point of having a suspension that works with modern tyres if we cant get the tyres to fit the 14" wheels in the correct OD.

The previous owner had already gone down to 195/60's on the front and they are too low for my driveway & I cant find 205's in the right speed rating. My rears at the moment are 235/60x14 S rated (legal in oz for rego & insurance I am assured)

At the moment I am waiting for a quote from an Australian wheel manufacturer who says he can copy the rear Wolfrace wheels in 15 or 16 Diameter and 7 or 8 inch width.

Rohan I am talking to Dragway Wheels Qld but the factory is down your way isnt it - would you be interested in 15 or 16 inch wheels.

The point of this post is - has anyone in UK approached Wolfrace or Lotus with a view to remaking the S1 wheels in 15's or 16's - this would solve the tyre dilema.

I would sooner have wheels from Wolfrace & I would order them before suspension.

Ideally I would like to order the suspension and wheels at the same time from the same supplier - Lotus! - then I would know it would all work & be kosher with the car.

Am I raving on - maybe this shuold be on a different thread.

xisab

Edited by xisab
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Guest surferphil

This is such an incredible opportunity, I'd be mad if I wasn't supporting it. I wish the LEC crowd would do this for the M100 Elan.

1. Tony K

2. Esprit S2 (Paul Baxter)

3. Troy

4. Peteyg (Pete Gentilli)

5. yeller77 (Eric)

6. matk

7. ghe67 (giorgio)

8. dwil

9. Matwatts

10. Mark p

11. beagle!

12. Franky (Esprit S2 JPS)

13. JeanVM (Esprit S1)

14. Mundo

15. LOTUS

16. Rich S.

17. Mikes2esprit1979

18. scottmgibb

19. orionflyer74

20. Ian Munro

21. Rogue_S1 (Rob Roy, Esprit S1)

22. HotShoe (Dave Coleman, '78 S1

23. AdamLHelton (Esprit S1)

24. Rohan Hodges (1978 Esprit S1 1/2)

25. Iain Ogilvie (1983 Turbo Esprit)

26. djc

27. ALOOFS2 (Dennis Fresch)

28. surferphil (1978 S1)

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  • 1 month later...

1. Tony K

2. Esprit S2 (Paul Baxter)

3. Troy

4. Peteyg (Pete Gentilli)

5. yeller77 (Eric)

6. matk

7. ghe67 (giorgio)

8. dwil

9. Matwatts

10. Mark p

11. beagle!

12. Franky (Esprit S2 JPS)

13. JeanVM (Esprit S1)

14. Mundo

15. LOTUS

16. Rich S.

17. Mikes2esprit1979

18. scottmgibb

19. orionflyer74

20. Ian Munro

21. Rogue_S1 (Rob Roy, Esprit S1)

22. HotShoe (Dave Coleman, '78 S1

23. AdamLHelton (Esprit S1)

24. Rohan Hodges (1978 Esprit S1 1/2)

25. Iain Ogilvie (1983 Turbo Esprit)

26. djc

27. ALOOFS2 (Dennis Fresch)

28. surferphil (1978 S1)

29. tiga (1979 S2)

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  • 3 weeks later...

Now I finally got an S1 I'm in.

1. Tony K

2. Esprit S2 (Paul Baxter)

3. Troy

4. Peteyg (Pete Gentilli)

5. yeller77 (Eric)

6. matk

7. ghe67 (giorgio)

8. dwil

9. Matwatts

10. Mark p

11. beagle!

12. Franky (Esprit S2 JPS)

13. JeanVM (Esprit S1)

14. Mundo

15. LOTUS

16. Rich S.

17. Mikes2esprit1979

18. scottmgibb

19. orionflyer74

20. Ian Munro

21. Rogue_S1 (Rob Roy, Esprit S1)

22. HotShoe (Dave Coleman, '78 S1

23. AdamLHelton (Esprit S1)

24. Rohan Hodges (1978 Esprit S1 1/2)

25. Iain Ogilvie (1983 Turbo Esprit)

26. djc

27. ALOOFS2 (Dennis Fresch)

28. surferphil (1978 S1)

29. tiga (1979 S2)

30. gtookey (Gavin Tookey)

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  • 1 month later...

Count me in, as long as it is available until March 2009, then I have to exchange minimum the dampers. Would be a good idea to point out again it is also for the S3 pre 85 suspension

31. Rolf, S3 TurboEsprit

Website with information and pictures PBB St Tropez convertible Esprit:

http://www.lotusespritconvertible.de/

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  • 3 weeks later...

Count me in for my S2 as well

1. Tony K

2. Esprit S2 (Paul Baxter)

3. Troy

4. Peteyg (Pete Gentilli)

5. yeller77 (Eric)

6. matk

7. ghe67 (giorgio)

8. dwil

9. Matwatts (for 78 Esprit S1)

10. Mark p

11. beagle!

12. Franky (Esprit S2 JPS)

13. JeanVM (Esprit S1)

14. Mundo

15. LOTUS

16. Rich S.

17. Mikes2esprit1979

18. scottmgibb

19. orionflyer74

20. Ian Munro

21. Rogue_S1 (Rob Roy, Esprit S1)

22. HotShoe (Dave Coleman, '78 S1

23. AdamLHelton (Esprit S1)

24. Rohan Hodges (1978 Esprit S1 1/2)

25. Iain Ogilvie (1983 Turbo Esprit)

26. djc

27. ALOOFS2 (Dennis Fresch)

28. surferphil (1978 S1)

29. tiga (1979 S2)

30. gtookey (Gavin Tookey)

31. Rolf, S3 TurboEsprit

32. Mike H 77 L34

33. Mattwatts (for 78 Esprit S2)

1976 Esprit S1 123G Red Tartan, 1976 Esprit S1 170G Orange Tartan, 1976 Esprit S1 192G White Tartan, 1976 Esprit S1 228G Yellow, 1977 Esprit S1 564H Blue, 1978 Esprit S1 329G Now White, 1978 Esprit S1 336G Blue, 1978 Esprit S1 728H Development car , 1978 Esprit S1  378G Silver,  1981 Esprit S2.2 0991 Blue, 1997 Elise S1 Blue. Trying not to buy any more...

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Rolf Posted Sep 4 2008, 08:41 PM

Count me in, as long as it is available until March 2009, then I have to exchange minimum the dampers. Would be a good idea to point out again it is also for the S3 pre 85 suspension

A year ago (bottom of page 4) I asked whether this upgrade was really appropriate for the early S3 suspension and was told categorically that.......'The S3 has a completely different front suspension from the S1 and S2. It is more like that on the Elite and Eclat and similar to the old Europa, I believe, using Triumph uprights.'

Is the upgrade incompatible with early S3 suspension? If so the title of this thread is misleading.

Si

Edited by jetace25
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