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NC25T

Evora 400 vs Alfa Gulia Quad? Help me decide

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I am car shopping and my two top picks are the lotus evora 400 or a Alfa Gulia Quad, Amy suggestions be it good or bad on either car?  Looking for something to use almost as a daily driver, either car will not see winter/snow driving however the other 9 or so months of the of the year it would be used.  

There are a few leftover new 400’s that I have my eye on, I want the carbon hatch and if possible the carbon roof as well as manual trans in the Lotus.

the Alfa obviously is a auto and gains back seats which I do not really need.  This car I would purchased used, they seem to be close in the low $40k USD range for a used low mile example.  While I figure the e400 would be twice that price or a little more.  

Biggest thing that scares me with the Alfa is it’s engine, expensive service/repair bills.... while the evora just the $80-$90k price scares me..... that’s what I assume I could get one for?  

I have spent time driving both cars however my time beihind the wheel of the lotus was shorter.  Very impressed with both cars..... 

 

thanks for any any input 

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For a Start they are two totally different cars, and as part of your research you might want to watch this

 

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I am on my second Evora 400 and have test driven an Alfa Q prior to buying my first one. Here goes my 2 cents:

Alfa pros:

  • Ferrari "derived" engine. Sounds very good on the pipe. 
  • Interior was nice, much more upscale than the Evora.
  • Looks sporty, for a 4 door anyway. 

Alfa cons:

  • 4 door cars overstay their welcome with me. I get tired of them quickly and then it becomes "meh" 
  • I have never owned an alfa so I can't speak with authority on parts and dealer competence, but I would be very surprised if its good. Alfa is still a low volume / not an adult professional shop in many ways. 

Evora pros:

  • The Evora is in a market segment all its own. The only true exotic you can get for $80 grand. Only 300-325 cars are sold annually in the US, making it the lowest volume production car south of Zondas and the like. IT still baffles me how Lotus stays in business with such low volumes. 
  • Very pretty coachwork. It is one of the most striking and pretty cars you will see on the roads. Actually, scratch that. You will never see one on the road other than the one you drive. 
  • Other than my E46 M3, its the most communicative steering I have ever felt. Thanks to what the British are really good at, the suspension setup is awesome - sporty yet perfectly passable for everyday comfort. I remember my W204 C63 being so much harsher and that's a 4 door Mercedes. 

Evora cons:

  • The low volume stuff will really grate you when you need parts. The factory is amateur happy hours all the time. The company is so home made they get order sheets wrong on brand new $120k cars regularly. The reason I am on my second was because my first turned out to be an utter and complete piece of shit. To the point that my dealer was so embarrassed by the lack of support from Lotus that he bought it back from me. 
  • I bought my second Evora fully prepared to go it on my own with an independent shop in town that works on racing Lotuses. I have zero faith in the manufacturer warranty and consider it absolutely worthless. 
  • The US cars all have heated seats, but that's about it. Everything else is stripped down. Sparcos are a really bad, panel gaps are poor and overall, you get the feeling every time you get in it that its a home made kit car. 

Ultimately, there isn't anything remotely close to the price range of the Evora that's a true exotic. You will turn heads everywhere. And its special to know you are driving one of 300 cars sold that year. There are faster (My F-Type R, nearly every AMG I have owned were all so much faster and nicer than the Lotus) and nicer made cars out there for the money, but Lotus's rarity makes it a cool car to own. 

 

Edited by xxaarraa

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Thanks for the info/opinions/etc...... I have been doing a bit of reading/research on the Alfa and wow.... one dealership I was looking at had 8 gulia quads and two Stelvio quads..... according to their fee auto check that comes with each vehicle, I looked at the history of 6 quad’s and everyone one was a lemon!  Some were claimed as a lemon with less then 4,000 miles on their clock.

also saw a thread where the 30k mile service is $2,000+, 

the evora is looking better and better and is the car I want, just trying to look at it somewhat rationally, is it worth 2x the price?  Seems like most reliability issues are a thing of the past with the evora..... while from what I have seen the Alfa it will be never ending.  Plus expensive service costs..... 

 

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5 minutes ago, NC25T said:

 Seems like most reliability issues are a thing of the past with the evora..... while from what I have seen the Alfa it will be never ending.  Plus expensive service costs..... 

 

Evoras are hand built which means its a crap shoot as to what you get - some are good, some are horrid. And when the manufacturer warranty isn't worth anything, service costs are high since everything is out of pocket. 

I don't think you can make this decision on cost / rational variables. It comes down to do you want the exotic ownership experience or not? Both are fun cars in their own right. 

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@xxaarraa for a fan you sure know how top put someone off a car and brand.

The warranty actually works @NC25T and you will find many examples on here where people who have had an issue have had it sorted.  As a low volume manufacturer you can  sometimes have to wait for parts, but then with a Toyota engine and gearbox you can be sure that the essentials are sound and reliable.  Later cars are pretty rock solid mechanically though you do get some issues with minor components, mainly trim, window actuators and sometimes the gear cables need adjusting as they can initially stretch.

The 400 is actually a very well built car. I had a S1 NA that had one fault in 3 years - the drivers window actuator.  I traded it in for a new Evora sport 18 months ago - I had two problems with it - one was the rear carbon hatch and the other was the front windscreen starting to delaminate (both bought in products). Both, whilst being expensive parts to fix (circa £3.5k and £1500 were changed under warranty without hassle. I can only give you the facts around my ownership experience with Evora's which has been hugely positive, with probably 3 exceptions, every other owner I am aware of was fooking delighted with their car, whether S1 or 4xx.

Buy on condition and ensure the service history is full. Check the ECU readout (the dealer can supply) for any "launches" and you should be OK re the clutch, which is the only really expensive maintenance part on the Evora at anywhere between £1800 and £3200 to change depending on where you go.  The rest of the services are so cheap, compared to "normal" sports cars that you could say one clutch every 5 years evens out the costs!

Enjoy your search. You may need to compromise on colour and spec, but when you find the one, you'll know it. You'll love it. And you'll be hooked.

All the best

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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Owning a Lotus is a love thing. You have to totally fall in love with the way a Lotus drives, then you can forgive everything else.

TBF the Evora is comfortable as a tourer even if hasn't got the toys that other cars have. The only thing that I haven't been able to find to improve the touring aspect is an aftermarket fulll climate control system. Other bits like seats, hi fi and mirrors are easy enough to change.

Re the service aspect, Lotus dealers are patchy but the trick is to find a good one and build a relationship with the service guys.

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" And when the manufacturer warranty isn't worth anything, service costs are high since everything is out of pocket.  .."

I'm not sure at what period in time this was true ?

My 2017 Evora400 has had 3 warranty repairs all done in a very timely fashion:

1. Serpentine Belt ridges coming loose at first service (< 1000 miles), time till repaired:  2 days.   I'd read a few other instances of this, probably a bad run of belt production, no problems since @7000 miles.   Had to wait a day for part.

2.  Right Paddle shift broken.  Time till repaired: 2 days.   Had to wait a day for parts.

3.  Right door panel coming loose.   Done with #2.

 

I've not had any problems with getting things repaired under warranty.   Since the replaced parts haven't failed after 1000s of miles of use, I'm not concerned that the particular failures are systemic or chronic which are the ones that one really worries about, e.g.:  my Honda CBR1100XX SuperBlackbird that broke 3 cam chain tensioners in 70,000 miles, I finally gave up and just came to accept the chain noise on deceleration along with any slight valve timing deviations...

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I do agree with any low volume vehicle it’s kinda a crapshoot on what we get, however from everything I have read with the evora being at the end of its life cycle, the majority of the bugs have been corrected.  

 

If I had to pay $2k plus for a 30k mile service, I would rather pay $5k or so every xx,000 miles + for a new clutch.  One of the things that draws me to the evora (thanks JayEmm) is that even though it’s pretty close to a exotic..... it doesn’t come with exotic car maintenance like the F cars.  The Toyota engine is a big plus for me while the Ferrari derived turbo 6, as sweet as it sounds is scary with what that can cost.  

 

Dealership wise, I have a shop less then 2 hours away which always seems to get excellent reviews.  Gator Motorsports is their name... also another closer dealership MAGcars (Midwestern Auto Group) which is just over a hour away, however they aren’t a lotus enthusiast shop..... I think it’s more just because they can and want to sell 9+ different makes of cars under one roof

 

thanks again everyone.....

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I have owned an Elise, Evora S and now an Evora 400. I had very few issues with my Elise, owned it for almost 7 years. I did have some electrical issues with my S (a somewhat common problem). They could not get it fixed before warranty expired but, the dealer agreed to warranty the electrical issue even past the Lotus factory warranty. Eventually the issue did get figured out. I traded my S towards a brand new 400. I have owned it 2 years and 2 months. I have had one warranty issue, an A-pillar seal that came loose (common issue).

I have never been denied a warranty claim. Honestly I think some warranty issues being denied has more to do with the dealer not fighting for the customer enough. Seems a lot of horror stories come out the same dealers. I bought and serviced all mine at AutoEurope (Michigan, U.S.) and they have been nothing but great to deal with every warranty claim was accepted without any money out of my pocket.

I was actually looking into the the Guilia Quad for a daily, but i have heard nothing but horror stories in regards to reliability. Its a real shame. I know some people here have gotten some bad 400s, but honestly my 400 may be the best car experience I have ever had in the first 2 years of ownership. Its been rock solid (knock-on wood, err composite?).

Most Evora owners aren't even on this forum and the ones that haven't had problems aren't posting about how trouble free their car has been (unless asked). Almost any car forum makes that car out to seem much worse than it actually is due to selection bias.

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16 hours ago, xxaarraa said:

Evoras are hand built which means its a crap shoot as to what you get - some are good, some are horrid. And when the manufacturer warranty isn't worth anything, service costs are high since everything is out of pocket. 

I don't think you can make this decision on cost / rational variables. It comes down to do you want the exotic ownership experience or not? Both are fun cars in their own right. 

The Evoras are hand assembled yes, but many of the parts are pre fabricated in automated factories. The engine is supplied ready to go.

I would wager their reliability betters that of a McLaren which sell in many times the volume

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And unlike some Ferraris and Lambos they are not known for their phoenix type tendancies nor like Porsche where the engine monster has a tendency to eat the engine internals or where on the GT models the suspension wants to break free through the top of the body work.

Can things go wrong? Of course. But not usually catastrophic unlike others.

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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Just to chime in guys. For what it's worth I own both 2017 alfa quad and evora sport 410. The alfa I take daily to work and the evora I take for fun rides whenever they arise. 

The alfa produces a lotta laughs and reliability hasn't come into question in the last 2 years. The same can be said about the evora. Both have their ups and downs but are excellent and communicative. 

Given I don't have kids, neither 4 door or 2 doors affect me. If I could only keep one it'd be the evora :)

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Personally, I think there are closer comparisons with the Evora.  The Alfa is a bigger car with more of a true back seat and generally bigger, heavier car.  In the current car market, you are hard pressed to find direct competitors, but for around similar or less money, I’d venture for a BMW M2 or a Porsche 911.  Both have back seats roughly comparable to the Evora and both can be had with a manual.

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On 25/08/2019 at 20:43, NC25T said:

Dealership wise, I have a shop less then 2 hours away which always seems to get excellent reviews.  Gator Motorsports is their name

@brian.s.henry from Gator is a member on here. :thumbup:


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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I just talked to my insurance agent, they quoted me $3,200 a year for the lotus or $1,200 a year for the Alfa, both seasonal use 

Any suggestions of more affordable lotus insurance?  

I have been leaning towards the lotus however insurance is a bit more then I expected.

 

my problem with the 911 and m2.... even though they are great is they are EVERYWHERE..... 

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If you desire exclusivity in a new car, then the Evora is likely your cheapest entre to such status.  Other than a Lotus, you would have to look at bespoke used cars which will likely cost as much (or more) as an Evora with no warranty.

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1 hour ago, NC25T said:

I just talked to my insurance agent, they quoted me $3,200 a year for the lotus or $1,200 a year for the Alfa, both seasonal use 

Any suggestions of more affordable lotus insurance?  

I have been leaning towards the lotus however insurance is a bit more then I expected.

 

my problem with the 911 and m2.... even though they are great is they are EVERYWHERE..... 

Get another insurance agent. If you are American you might be better served to ask this question over on the American forum. But the number should be closer to the Alfa rate. 

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6 hours ago, ByJoveByJingle said:

Get another insurance agent. If you are American you might be better served to ask this question over on the American forum. But the number should be closer to the Alfa rate. 

He did, and he's getting the bad news. It's par for the course in the US - the rarity of the Evora screws the insurance premiums quite a bit. 

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3 minutes ago, xxaarraa said:

He did, and he's getting the bad news. It's par for the course in the US - the rarity of the Evora screws the insurance premiums quite a bit. 

Doesn’t match my experience. But no need to carry on this discussion here. 

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On 27/08/2019 at 08:38, NC25T said:

I just talked to my insurance agent, they quoted me $3,200 a year for the lotus or $1,200 a year for the Alfa, both seasonal use 

well, it's obvious..  the actuarial tables clearly tell them that the Alfa will actually be in the shop and not on the road for 1/2 the time that it is insured..   nyuck, nyuck,  nyuck....

 

On a more serious note..    my older Chevy Volt is insured for liability only..   it's cost about on par for the cost of the newer fully insured Evora400, so you might want to check around some more..

Also, I have a friend with a Giulia, he likes it a lot..   but then, he's more of a luxury car kind of person rather than a sport performance car person..

Edited by furious_blue
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Sadly it seems like the guys in the USA do seem to suffer from bad to non existent dealer support on occasion. I really can’t say the same here in the UK and Europe, where I have always been very happy with the attitude and service that I’ve received. 

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9 hours ago, Breeze said:

Sadly it seems like the guys in the USA do seem to suffer from bad to non existent dealer support on occasion. 

You can say that again. There are only 30 odd dealers in all of the US, and I'd venture two thirds of them are rubbish. 

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Again thanks everyone for their input!

 

yesterday I had to head out of town for work, just happened to have  lotus dealer where I went and also a gulia and Stelvio quad for me to check out,

 

lotus dealership was the same same one I went to last fall, they had a e 400 that I took for a spin.  Sales person was a great guy and a lotus fan however not so familiar with the evora.  He told me back then that the evora 400 was the last evora.  Seeing him yesterday he apologized and stated he wasn’t told anything in regards to the evora 400 replacement.  He said he didn’t even know when they were getting the GT in and he assumed it would be a few months before they are here in the states.  He was totally shocked when I said numerous dealerships have had them for a while now.

 

‘Thursday I stopped by a local dealership/service shop , they had a exige I wanted to sit in/look at.  Turns out the owner is a HUGE lotus fan, stated they started their company due to lotus cars however there isn’t enough on the streets to pay bills so he is more into Ferrari and Lamborghini now.  He owns a highly modified exige, stated 500-520 whp and they are about to compound charge it for closer to 700 whp, and it weight under 2,000 lbs with driver..... it’s his race car!  He had lots of great things to say and offered to find me a used or new evora 400/GT.  He stated they have done warranty work in the past and that most dealerships in the states do more harm then good for the brand, they just do not know the cars.  

 

Anyways, Alfa.... didn’t take either for a drive and actually preferred sitting in the Stelvio vs gulia, seemed easier to get in/out and might work better for me at work.

 

however, I want a lotus.... so that’s the direction I will go.   Going to send a few dealers a message and see what they can do on a evora GT, light on the options to keep the price more reasonable.  I am leaning towards the standard red & carbon pack... I really like numerous other colors however for me not sure it’s worth the extra money.  

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