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Five50

Making a V6S into a V6 Cup equivalent / Track Car - upgrades

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Interested to get into a V6 Exige.

Would be a weekend and fairly regular track car.

Had planned to buy a V6 Cup or similar- but when you look at asking prices of currently for sale V6 Cups (albeit none seem to be moving) vs what you can get a decent V6S for, well maybe upgrading a V6S makes more sense.

Trying to work out what is required and likely spend. Would be grateful for any thoughts:

 

Well publicised differences V6 Cup vs V6S from the factory (excluding less vital items for this use such as carbon seats, extinguisher, electric cut offs, sound deadening):

Baffled sump (approx £600 for the part) - assume this is required and not just window dressing?

2 way nitrons / adjustable arb(s) - £2-4k depending on chosen aftermarket suspension spec 

T45 roll hoop / harness bar - not sure if retro fit is practical?

Harnesses - £200 for bar, approx £300 each side for harnesses

Better brake discs and pads - £ subject to spec

Geo

- maybe £5k total if focused on a cost effective outcome - more if going large (Ohlins etc)

 

Likely upgrades one would want to make to a either a V6 Cup or V6S used on track (appreciate that you can go all GF Williams with mods, but the basic items for longevity and / or practical track use):

Gearbox cooler(?) - approx £1k

Replace glass engine cover for 350 Sport style louvres for improved heat circulation - approx £1k?

Consider gear cables - £?

Enlarged fuel tank - approx £800

Latest tyres (Cup 2)

The full Alias 23 catalogue!!

 

Is there anything else to immediately think of? Is anyone aware of any other more subtle differences between the Cup and the V6S - suspension bushing, toe links etc?

Would welcome any thoughts on specifics or broad approach.

 

 

Edited by Five50

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Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.

The big factor you’re forgetting is that a V6 cup should hold its money, any money you put into mods probably won’t affect the value at all.

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My 'must haves' for a regular V6 based track car:

Decent driver's seat and harnesses (I favour a Tillett over the standard Cup seats in my car)

Large fuel tank

Upgraded pads

Upgraded suspension

Track tyres

 

The other items you've listed I'd put on a lower priority unless you find a specific issue, included baffled sump, which is a sensible option.

All the above said, the standard car is capable up to a point, depending on abillity. Dont' forget to invest in yourself (apologies, I don't know your history)

 

 

 

Edited by Arun_D

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9 hours ago, Five50 said:

Interested to get into a V6 Exige.

Would be a weekend and fairly regular track car.

Had planned to buy a V6 Cup or similar- but when you look at asking prices of currently for sale V6 Cups (albeit none seem to be moving) vs what you can get a decent V6S for, well maybe upgrading a V6S makes more sense.

Trying to work out what is required and likely spend. Would be grateful for any thoughts:

 

Well publicised differences V6 Cup vs V6S from the factory (excluding less vital items for this use such as carbon seats, extinguisher, electric cut offs, sound deadening):

Baffled sump (approx £600 for the part) - assume this is required and not just window dressing?

2 way nitrons / adjustable arb(s) - £2-4k depending on chosen aftermarket suspension spec 

T45 roll hoop / harness bar - not sure if retro fit is practical?

Harnesses - £200 for bar, approx £300 each side for harnesses

Better brake discs and pads - £ subject to spec

Geo

- maybe £5k total if focused on a cost effective outcome - more if going large (Ohlins etc)

 

Likely upgrades one would want to make to a either a V6 Cup or V6S used on track (appreciate that you can go all GF Williams with mods, but the basic items for longevity and / or practical track use):

Gearbox cooler(?) - approx £1k

Replace glass engine cover for 350 Sport style louvres for improved heat circulation - approx £1k?

Consider gear cables - £?

Enlarged fuel tank - approx £800

Latest tyres (Cup 2)

The full Alias 23 catalogue!!

 

Is there anything else to immediately think of? Is anyone aware of any other more subtle differences between the Cup and the V6S - suspension bushing, toe links etc?

Would welcome any thoughts on specifics or broad approach.

 

 

I love the fact that gfwilliams has become a verb, as in “to @GFWilliams a car” 🤣

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1 minute ago, Mattmahope said:

I love the fact that gfwilliams has become a verb, as in “to @GFWilliams a car” 🤣

🤦🏻‍♂️ It’s this moment when I think I might have gone too far? 

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after all the changes I've read you want to do ... the costs you'll have to face, the time to prepare ... are you really sure you don't want to buy an original V6 CUP directly ?

... sure that you will have an added value in the coming years and the money will always recover ...

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Probably worth adding, after considering a similar route to yourself,  albeit already hard tracking a standard V6S, I ended up doing exactly what @NANO has suggested above and switched to a Cup car (albeit there were still improvements to be made)

Edited by Arun_D

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You forgot the different ARB on the Cup, and definitely the seats indeed ... As said the Cup will hold its value. Better to just empty your car before doing anything else, specially suspension and geo I guess. Also aftermarket exhaust will remove some good kgs, and get an airbox ( SSc system equivalent on the Cup), adds up to the urge feeling of the cup. Price of the car + all your mods, you will definitely get to a Cup car price range, at last a V6s Cup... Now the most effective would be to start from a v6s Cup and upgrade toward 400+bhp Cup spec, as from there you would have a CUp car close to higher version like 380 cup, but for a lot less money (and not many things needed really to get there ( but again shifter will be the difference) ... 

Also, I heard in the past that the CUp had a different clutch plate ? Stronger than the one on regular V6s ? 

Edited by chumaxa

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@chumaxa he does mention ARB at the same time as the Nitrons, however I believe the adjustable/different spec ARB was introduced on the 360 Cup. I think ours are the same as the V6S.

I don't beleive the clutch plate is different on the V6 Cup.

Whilst we're here, the supplementary manual mentions the V6 Cups are fitted with as Mocal oil catch can......they are not, only the CupRs are.

Edited by Arun_D

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... if you buy, as mentioned, a V6CUP and you can make all the changes you want but as a basis

1) you already have a street / race car
2) you have to spend less money on modifications of parts that are already standard on the original ( seats, roll-bar, extinguishing system, etc. )

so all you have to do is keep all the original pieces ( standard ) that you modify so that on the day you intend to sell it you can offer

1) the original car, standard and sell the pieces you had previously purchased separately
2) or the car with modifications but with all the original parts you had changed

The base, however, will be a "special" car and perhaps with "wanted" weather and may have a certain value

cheers

Edited by NANO
completet

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6 hours ago, Arun_D said:

@chumaxa he does mention ARB at the same time as the Nitrons, however I believe the adjustable/different spec ARB was introduced on the 360 Cup. I think ours are the same as the V6S.

I don't beleive the clutch plate is different on the V6 Cup.

Whilst we're here, the supplementary manual mentions the V6 Cups are fitted with as Mocal oil catch can......they are not, only the CupRs are.

Mine has the catch can. Proper motorsport cup....,

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Suspension

Seat & Harnesses

Brakes

Big Fuel Tank

That should give you a solid start :)

T45 bar isn’t retro fit on normal V6 I’ve looked into it and the roll over bar is missing the top attachment.

I don’t know if anyone whose had a major problem from tracking without a sump so unsure how big an issue this actually is in reality.

Also worth saying invest in driver tuition will take more time off your laps than mods!

 

 


www.alias23.com

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The arguments for modding would be if you want to teach yourself how to do car stuff, or if you want to creat something truly personal. If you don’t fall into either of those categories, then don’t do it. 

I would get a V6s, and add some gearbox shift cables for the summer, then enjoy it, and spend 8k on something else. 

If that’s not enough then buy a V6 cup.  

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20 hours ago, Arun_D said:

@chumaxa he does mention ARB at the same time as the Nitrons, however I believe the adjustable/different spec ARB was introduced on the 360 Cup. I think ours are the same as the V6S.

I don't beleive the clutch plate is different on the V6 Cup.

Whilst we're here, the supplementary manual mentions the V6 Cups are fitted with as Mocal oil catch can......they are not, only the CupRs are.

Ah ok, good to know ! 

 

13 hours ago, 550superfast said:

Mine has the catch can. Proper motorsport cup....,

Well it is what I mean, never the same then ... what do you call proper ? Have you a picture maybe ? 

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Someone mention catch tanks .... I’m already mid design 🤣

F929382C-CA51-4761-9A7A-BC39DDDECB4C.thumb.jpeg.9f7572c2b4ea70dd382a66d196d73cd1.jpeg

Test design and pipe routing which will then get made up into single piece custom silicone piping so no joins.

957BAD34-8F2A-444C-9613-9A33F8189C73.thumb.jpeg.8317a03d0a1346d208a17fa11ac920ce.jpeg

Projects taken a little back seat but still something I have in mind for this year as keen to limit too much oil going back into the throttle body etc...


www.alias23.com

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9 hours ago, chumaxa said:

Ah ok, good to know ! 

 

Well it is what I mean, never the same then ... what do you call proper ? Have you a picture maybe ? 

A proper cup is one built in Colin Chapman's old office, back in the day when they pulled a car off the end of the production line and took it over to the green Lotus Motorsport Workshop where it was stripped of frivolous parts and additional motor racing parts were fitted. Limited numbers, each with a number plaque, put together by race engineers and mechanics.

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15 hours ago, 550superfast said:

A proper cup is one built in Colin Chapman's old office, back in the day when they pulled a car off the end of the production line and took it over to the green Lotus Motorsport Workshop where it was stripped of frivolous parts and additional motor racing parts were fitted. Limited numbers, each with a number plaque, put together by race engineers and mechanics.

Right.. So what about the Exige v6 ? How come yours have one ? 

 

And about the original topic, limited access to Cup cars now, none worth being to start a project like this ... all being over 50k ( which is ok for the 360, I guess..)..

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That's really the issue -  the lowest I have seen a decent V6 cup offered was about £42k (I wasn't ready) - but at the moment, with a decent V6S at 34-35 and the cheapest Cup asking over £50 then the maths looks a bit different.

So totally GFWilliamsing the cr3p out of a V6S maybe looks like a better trade. Or I just wait.

 

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The Cup cars are so much more than the sum of their parts. Gary kindly took me out in his a while ago, whilst I also drove a selection of V6’s, 350’s and a 380. The original V6 Cup’s are raw, intimate cars to drive and extract the best from. The fact that, along with the 360’s, are the last motorsport cars adds kudos, if little or no more value. 

 

I bought one almost 2 years ago, and really do enjoy it. Whilst a standard V6 is cheaper, retro fitting the cup’s set up will cost a lot of money. With the espxception of the 360 currently for sale, and the freak £41,995 pewter Cup, I’ve not seen many other cup cars for sale. 

 

Stick a 380 exhaust on one, and they sound epic😀 

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