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georg964

Is my V6 down on power?

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Hallo Imran, I stay today to test the power of my car before changing to your system.

I can´t understand why but it will be only 192 kW by 5310.

I will stay with the car by Lotus next week.

Who have the same problem in the past?

Lotus said my dealer in germany had to reset the EMS.

 

Best wishes

 

Georg

 

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Hi @georg964

Can you confirm what I think you’re saying.... you’ve taken your standard car (intake not fitted at this point) to get a dyno measure of your standard power before an upgrade.

The measurement has come back with a number much lower than factory.

Is this correct? 


www.alias23.com

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Correct.

I left more than 60 kW without modification.

Oh, sorry, two modification. exhaust from Komotec and air filter K&N

Best wishes Gerog

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Okay so pretty much standard car pre intake install. I would say that it’s more likely that the dyno run is incorrect.

The Exige V6 is a challenging car to dyno, you can not really get an accurate measurement on a 2WD dyno, in essence the front wheels need to spin at the same rate as the rears. Some tuners ‘trick’ the car when they only have a 2WD dyno but for me that still doesn’t give an accurate figure.

You need to go to a 4WD dyno operator who can mechanically spin the front wheels at the same rate as the rear. 

Then you should get a decent reading :)


www.alias23.com

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1 hour ago, alias23 said:

You need to go to a 4WD dyno operator who can mechanically spin the front wheels at the same rate as the rear. 

Sorry, can you explain why this might make a difference?  I can't fathom how the front wheels spinning will affect the power output?

(ps: I know nothing)

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Theoretically if DPM is anyhow on, difference in wheel speed will result in intervention. However, I am in the same "can't fathom" camp for why would it matter if DPM is fully off and the car is theoretically fully mechanical in terms of transmission.

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This has been discussed quite a few times before and the easiest answer is just to accept what Imran is saying is correct. 👍

I cant figure out why it makes difference either but it’s been shown a good few times now that it does 😬

Edited by RedViper
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59 minutes ago, RedViper said:

This has been discussed quite a few times before and the easiest answer is just to accept what Imran is saying is correct. 👍

Do you have a link to the thread? Must have missed this and search is not being my friend tonight. 

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14 hours ago, alias23 said:

Okay so pretty much standard car pre intake install. I would say that it’s more likely that the dyno run is incorrect.

The Exige V6 is a challenging car to dyno, you can not really get an accurate measurement on a 2WD dyno, in essence the front wheels need to spin at the same rate as the rears. Some tuners ‘trick’ the car when they only have a 2WD dyno but for me that still doesn’t give an accurate figure.

You need to go to a 4WD dyno operator who can mechanically spin the front wheels at the same rate as the rear. 

Then you should get a decent reading :)

Isn´t it possible to switch off the system of the Exige to measure with a 2WD dyno? Sometimes there is a fuse for the front wheels to cut the system.

We measure some years ago my car (Artega) with the same 2WD dyno with pulling the fuse.

 

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I think that’s been tried to. I think this just needs to go in box of things you can’t explain but know are true. Like that lotus sells an exige that’s basically the same as it was 6 years ago for twice as much money now 

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Hallo guys, yesterday I drive with my Exige V6 to another company to make a new performance test with a 4 wheel Dyno. My V6 get the same result of only 277,92 PS like the first test on the 2 wheel Dyno. The company who are involved in tuning MC Laren and other sport cars are shure that there is a problem with the car and not with the performance test.

What´s the problem with my car do you think ?

Today I ask Lotus what to do because I have 3 years guarantee on my car with normaly 350 PS and not 277 PS. I hope I get a suitible answer from Lotus.

 

Best wishes

 

Georg

 

 

 

RE-GK350.bmp

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4wd dyno should comparatively read slightly lower than 2wd dyno (all conditions being the same), but you also need to remember that there are drivetrain losses...hence the lower figure than your (engine) power.

 

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Hi Georg,

As Trevor says there are two places to measure the power output of a car, one is at engine and the second is at the wheels.  There is some drivetrain losses due to friction etc .. going from the engine to the wheels usually around 15% loss.  This may help explain:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwitgYnUjK3lAhUIXsAKHeAkDBsQwqsBMAB6BAgJEAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DBOFVnkrkQ6k&usg=AOvVaw3C0s1_I3PiTUnDillrIh9D

Do you know where the dyno garage where measuring their output from?  If it is at the wheels then I think your car is OK if the engine then possibly you have some problem.

I believe the figure quoted by Lotus is the engine horse power and assuming a loss of 15% for the drive train and then a further loss of 5% for 4wd compared to 2wd dyno give a total of 20% losses going from engine power to wheel power.  So if you take 350ps and multiply by 0.80 that equals = 280ps which is roughly in line with what you are getting in your car, so assuming your dyno figure is measured at the wheels I don't think there is any problem.

Heat soak in the engine can also reduce performance, if the car had performed a few runs and the engine bay was hot then this would also reduce the power by a little bit too.

If there was a problem I would have thought an experience garage would be able to at least have a guess at what the problem might be? Did they measure air to fuel ratio, this can give an indication to problems in the engine.

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So your original dyno beginning of Sept (first post) was around 250 then second dyno (download) is again around 250.... torque seems okay at around 375... power does seem to drop after 6k revs but again this seems consistent on both graphs. To confirm this is a standard car with no performance modifications correct.


www.alias23.com

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2 hours ago, electro_boy said:

Did they measure air to fuel ratio, this can give an indication to problems in the engine.

On the first graph there is the Lambda value, which at 6200 rpm is showing +-0.72; so that's 1:10.73 measured after cat.

 

That is right on the money wrt the stock map (but is, like I said many times, very very very rich).

 

However, peak power happens at higher rpm.  I would be looking at belt slip from the supercharger as a first step.

@op: do you have a gator belt (diagonal grooved belt) or the older style belt?  On top of that, I assume all dyno pulls are done in the same gear (fifth gear; as you do 252 kph on the first pull)?

Edited by Kristof Thys

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1 hour ago, GFWilliams said:

I suggest going to Komo-tec and having a proper dyno done.

This is what I said on your other post and you will 100% get the answer to what is happening with your car.

cheers

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On 21/10/2019 at 13:34, alias23 said:

So your original dyno beginning of Sept (first post) was around 250 then second dyno (download) is again around 250.... torque seems okay at around 375... power does seem to drop after 6k revs but again this seems consistent on both graphs. To confirm this is a standard car with no performance modifications correct.

Correct. Only modification is Komotec exhaust and K&N air filters so normaly 350 PS + - 5 %.

In this moment I can`t go to Komotec because the first guarantee applicant goes through another Lotus dealer.

Best wishes

Georg

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1 hour ago, georg964 said:

Correct. Only modification is Komotec exhaust and K&N air filters so normaly 350 PS + - 5 %.

In this moment I can`t go to Komotec because the first guarantee applicant goes through another Lotus dealer.

Best wishes

Georg

I think what folks are saying is to use Komotec for the dyno measurement (only). If Komotec feel it is incorrect, you then have a proper dyno measurement validated by someone who knows what they're doing to then go to your original lotus dealer to make a warrant claim (if appropriate).


www.alias23.com

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On 20/10/2019 at 12:31, georg964 said:

Today I ask Lotus what to do because I have 3 years guarantee on my car with normaly 350 PS and not 277 PS. I hope I get a suitible answer from Lotus.

THIS will be intersting. If I'm not mistaken Jokke Flo did the same with his 380 Sport. Not sure if KOmotec fixed it in the end.

cheers

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I ask Komo but I have to go by the first time to my dealer in Wuppertal.

I am shure that the test with 277 PS was  correct because the company who test the car also work on Mc Laren, Audi R8 or Nissan GTR. So the know what to do.

I have next week a visit at my dealer to have some tests and they will send the results to Hethel.

Best wishes

 

Georg

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