R&T 2020 Performance Car of the Year - Evora GT

[Cypriot 92]

Whilst people may get in to an Evora and think it is special, that is because it doesn't look like a normal car interior.  That does not make the interior special in reality.  The plastics are horrible and cheap, all the touch points are bad (apart from the gear shifter).  The head unit is a joke as is the factory stereo.  Whilst that doesn't matter to most of us, the reality is when the list price is 90k today, it is unacceptable in todays market.   I agree that making everything digital is not the answer, but certainly a massive interior change needs to happen for the cars to have any hope of surviving into the future.

[The Pits 4,411]

Not if they use anyone who thinks modern Aston Martins are an improvement!

 

[Bruss 628]

Problem is that the Evora falls between two requirements. I've said before that if I had the money I'd have two Evoras. One would be full on Bugatti/ Range Rover levels of interior and smooth grand tourer old school. The other would be stripped out carbon fibre everywhere it could be used and track set up for suspension.  If only Lotus had made either. 😀

I guess the Exige V6 answers the latter, but I just can't get my head round the cramped interior.

[Simon Bateman 115]

The first time I sat in a 400, I actually thought that it was a nice place to be.  Not just for a Lotus, but full stop.

Lots of leather as standard, nice steering wheel etc and it all felt a bit bespoke like my old (997) 911.

The engine in it's completed guise is fantastic.  it's powerful, linear, revs freely and sounds great.  It's ultra reliable and relatively light at 167kg.  So what if it's supplied by Toyota.  Would the exact same engine from say BMW be viewed any differently?

On a run my previous (981) 2.7 Cayman (275 bhp) could return 42 mpg.  On the same run in the Evora I'm seeing 36 mpg.  That seems more than fair to me given the increase in capacity and BHP.

I get the switch gear and dials thing, but seriously, does anyone really care where the indicator stalks came from? 

You have to spend serious money with Porsche to start getting leather as standard on the dash etc and for me it's really about driving the car........I still want to be comfortable and I am with the seats and air con etc.

As for the ICE.......It makes me laugh when I used to read endless posts on other forums about BOSE and similar upgrades and how they couldn't possibly have a car that doesn't have this music connectivity and that upgrade, only to realise that the owner is doing about 2000 miles a year, of which much of the time will be spent just listening to the same DJ talking on the same radio channel that I'm listening to on my basic Alpine.

I suppose Lotus have to change their offering in order to attract the sort of clients that can't see beyond the Porker and Merc interiors, but I don't think the cars will be fundamentally better for it and Lotus will gradually cease to be about the driving experience and more about mass market appeal.    

[Techyd 251]

15 hours ago, The Pits said:

Daily useability, ease of ingress/egress and interior tech are the priorities

For sure, this would bring more people to the brand and equally help retention!  What I would add to this though for daily usability would be low speed engine refinement / smoothness and of course better fuel consumption....I just can't justify ~22mpg for daily use...I think the engine it has, whilst great is very old now in the scheme of things - its core design I think dates back to mid 2000's, possibly earlier.

 

[LotusLeftLotusRight 1,413]

I thought the ingress/egress issues were solved by JMG with the 400 on Evoras? Surely even Thora Hird can get in and out of these later Evoras?

[Bruss 628]

14 minutes ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

I thought the ingress/egress issues were solved by JMG with the 400 on Evoras? Surely even Thora Hird can get in and out of these later Evoras?

and she's been dead for years.

 

 

[C8RKH 6,749]

6 hours ago, Bruss said:

Yes, but you are all missing my point (and RT's). You tell me how good the Evora is. This I know, I'm on my second one. What I want to know is what the next 'better' car is going to be, or is the Evora the last car that Lotus will ever make and stay trapped in amber?

 

No. Not missing the point at all but at this stage all the talk on here re the next car is or is not going to be this or that is just mostly pure, ill informed speculation; current owners wish lists for the next car; or ridiculous bullshit without any semblance of sanity.

If you're talking about the future then stop harping on about the present model. Make your mind up, is it the next facelifted Evora 4xx you want, or a new model?

[C8RKH 6,749]

2 hours ago, Techyd said:

I think the engine it has, whilst great is very old now in the scheme of things - its core design I think dates back to mid 2000's, possibly earlier.

So, how much newer in the base fundamental design of the engine is:

Current 911 and Caymans?

Aston DB11 and Vantage?

Audi R8 v8 and v10

Merc v8 or V6

Nissang GTR

McLaren anything

 

 

 

 

[The Pits 4,411]

1 hour ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

I thought the ingress/egress issues were solved by JMG with the 400 on Evoras? Surely even Thora Hird can get in and out of these later Evoras?

Sure, if you have room to open the door fully an Evora is no harder to get in than a Boxster or Ford Focus for that matter. I think the point is that no Lotus will be challenging for people to get in and out of going forward.

Again though zero marketing is a major factor. The Elise and Exige should have been promoted as having exceptional side impact protection (which they have) along with the torsional rigidity. Nobody makes a door as strong as the Elise tub for side impacts. Once people understand the benefits, many would be quite happy to haul themselves over the necessarily high sill.

[Bruss 628]

12 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

No. Not missing the point at all but at this stage all the talk on here re the next car is or is not going to be this or that is just mostly pure, ill informed speculation; current owners wish lists for the next car; or ridiculous bullshit without any semblance of sanity.

If you're talking about the future then stop harping on about the present model. Make your mind up, is it the next facelifted Evora 4xx you want, or a new model?

I'll harp on as long as I like while I'm buying them. Oops I haven't bought a 400 or even a GT 430. I wonder if Lotus are no longer providing what I'm willing to pay for? 

Perhaps all those increased sales to other markets have taken up the slack? No, just checked their sales figures, no increased sales or profit showing yet. 

Speculation is always ill informed. That's why its called speculation. I wan't a new car from Lotus. I don't want a Porsche, or an M car from BMW. I don't want even a Mclaren with those stoopid doors, but I also don't want a warmed over version of a car released 10 years ago, especially at the price Lotus are asking for it. 

Gve me a new Esprit type model. I have the money, I love the Lotus 'feel', I'll even buy electric if it keeps the Lotus driving dynamics.  Just don't try and flog me an SUV. 

[LeglessAlex 95]

I think the interior of the Evora GT410 is somewhat ill thought out (considering I believe it's pitched as a sort of sporting GT) and definitely not good enough for the money. The buttons don't have a satisfactory feel, the indicator stalks are crap, I don't think the analog speedomoeter is very legible, there's no door bins, the cupholder is in a rubbish position, there's no climate control, there's nowhere to rest your elbows when you're cruising along on a motorway. The head unit is fine, I use Android Auto on it so it doesn't bother me much. Hate the volume buttons though, would much prefer a knob. 

Now, I'm sure a fair few people dismissed that as not relevant to Lotus owners, and you might be right for yourself and some others. But to expand, Lotus must attract new customers right? And these people will not be impressed at all if they've just come from a Porsche dealership sitting in the latest 911 T. It can be a six figure car, it's not unreasonable to expect an interior that's in the same league as other six figure cars.

The driving experince, looks and sound are absolutely amazing and absolutley worth the price. But as it is, I see the GT410 as a car you only buy if you really really love Lotus and are priortising the driving experience over everything else. For that, it's incredible. 

[au-yt 504]

4 hours ago, C8RKH said:

So, how much newer in the base fundamental design of the engine is:

Current 911 and Caymans?

Aston DB11 and Vantage?

Audi R8 v8 and v10

Merc v8 or V6

Nissang GTR

McLaren anything

 

 

 

 

The 2GR engine is the same age as most of this list, the Mclaren is a re-engineer of a Nissan Indy engine 20 years old, that's before they started using it.

Most development has been in old is new design and computer systems direct injection going back to heads with cast in exhaust manifolds as in the latest Supra and throw on a couple of turbos. I'll stick with the supercharger. Even the Jurnos make a comment on just good to drive the GT is all the time, not just "up it for the rent" so to speak.

Personally making special cars to be everyday drivers just turns them into white goods something you use every day and as long as there reliable who cares. Wasn't this test about performance cars, only mention in the text of "Daily" was the Hyundai and to me is its a hotted up white good that they have thrown enough money at the ex BMW engineer to fix a pigs ear into a silk purse, may feel like a silk purse still looks like a pigs ear

 

[C8RKH 6,749]

Thanks. That's my point. Lotus gets marked down/snide comments re age of engine design, others don't.

@Bruss i get your point re what you want from a NEW Lotus. Great. Let's see if they deliver but under the JMG cost cutting you were never going to get a new Evora with all the acroutements. I'm just saying no point harping on about the 4xx does not do it for one when quite clearly you will never buy one. So just move on and wait for the new model.

@LeglessAlex I'll reiterate my previous. No one who has sat in my car has been unimpressed with the interior. Climate, meh, a lot of these systems are not accurate anyway and the temperature that is supposed to be computer set can be several degrees different car by car. I have a full spec, ultimate gizmo'd out S90 as my daily. Big 12" lcd dash, ipad sized screen in the console for all controls (lieterally 80+ of them) and to be honest it's a faff and a distraction. The ipad screen you have to touch carefully or stuff is not selected. It has finger prints all over it so needs constant cleaning and 80%+ of the controls/options are set once and forget. I actually spent 10 minutes learning the speech commands and now just push one steering wheel button, tell the car what I want (who to dial, answer or end call, satnav destination, air con temp, auto parking etc) it to do. I'm not a technology dullard (I've worked in technology for 33 years), I love tech, but I'm not in love with it.

I actually look forward to getting in my evora for it's simplicity. It's pureness.  I've been in a MacLaren, the interior is not much different to Evora with the exception of the wee lcd screen.

So maybe the issue is that those who have an Evora as their only car or daily driver, they want all the bells, whistles and cupholders. For those that have it as a second/third etc car they have it for the pureness of experience. 

I disagree re the interior not being up to the mark. Go and have a look at a MacLaren. Forget the Porsche, it's pimped for hairdressers and accountants who know nothing better 😆😜🤪

[LeglessAlex 95]

10 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

I actually look forward to getting in my evora for it's simplicity. It's pureness.  I've been in a MacLaren, the interior is not much different to Evora with the exception of the wee lcd screen.

So maybe the issue is that those who have an Evora as their only car or daily driver, they want all the bells, whistles and cupholders. For those that have it as a second/third etc car they have it for the pureness of experience. 

I disagree re the interior not being up to the mark. Go and have a look at a MacLaren. Forget the Porsche, it's pimped for hairdressers and accountants who know nothing better 😆😜🤪

But what would having a place to rest your elbows on long journeys, nicer buttons to press and indicator stalks that didn't feel like they were made out of 50p plastic do to take away from the purity of the experience? In my view, that comes from the engine, brakes, chassis balance, throttle response and so on, wouldn't you say? 

I don't have the car as my daily, but I have done 5,000 miles in it since August and yes, I like to drive it on long boring trips as well as on more exciting roads. I believe Lotus have positioned the car as a GT with a relatively quiet cabin, good luggage space without the rear seats, extra sound insulation as an option, touring suspension as an option and so on. I look at it in this context, as a £100,000 sporting GT and I do expect better materials and a more well thought out cabin. I don't believe that should or would impact the excellent driving experience at all, and for that much money I expect it to be in addition to that. 

You appear to have a bee in your bonnet about Porsche, but at the end of the day if Lotus want to increase their sales volume any decent amount they will end up having to tempt some of these 'hairdressers and accountants' out of their Porsches and into a Lotus. I do not believe they will be able to do that with the current layout, materials and construction of the cabin. 

We each have our own opinions and I actually agree that many people that have looked around and sat in the Evora do not immediately think it's horrible, because it isn't horrible. It's okay. But, in my view, it's not what you'd expect for a one hundred thousand pound car. 

[The Pits 4,411]

I don't disagree that there is room for improvement inside, not so much for me, but for other people who care more about minor switch gear. Seems very strange to me to care more about indicator stalks than engine placement but that's a 911 buyer for you. Climate control is generally rubbish in my opinion, I prefer finely adjustable 3 rotary control set up in the Evora to anything in any of my other cars. For whatever reason Lotus have been a bit tight on guages since the 1998 Esprit dash makeover. But I'd love to see a decent bank of instruments return in the next Lotus but the desire to be seen as up to date will favour using whatever is cutting edge this month, which will also look quickly out of date next month.

The lack of arm rests is another oversight that you would have expected the new management to have dealt with right away. The US market cars have them, they don't weigh anything and I have no idea why they aren't at least options. Best guess is they have a load of lightweight door cards to use up. They were removed as part of the Sport 410 light weight package and for some reason never returned for the GT410 Sport. I still wouldn't have them in my Evora personally as I irrationally like the lightweight statement in a Lotus but I totally get why most would spec them.

[C8RKH 6,749]

@The Pits we are very closely aligned. That must be a worry for you! 🤪😜😆

@LeglessAlex I have no issue with Porsche, their commitment and legacy in motorsports, especially at Clubman level is inspiring and impressive and I even research it and watch the races. I have a much lower opinion of the average Porsche owner. They usually have the car for the key fob and the majority of the ones I have met were pretentious cocks - the sort who spend all day laughing at their own jokes at the golf club!. I can only talk from experience. However, to be fair, I do love what Porsche does with its GT/RS cars ( I have no time for its SUVs or saloon barges) and the owners who actually drive them rather than just polish them are huge petrolheads, open, considerate and interested in talking about cars and driving them. Genuinely nice people to a person. I realise my views are a gross generalisation, of course it's to make my point and like everything in life tgere will be exceptions.

As for indicator stalks, I honestly do not give them a second thought in any of the cars I drive. I'd rather Lotus spent the 50p saved on getting the chassis dynamics right. But, Again, I do realise we are not all the same and that's fine too.

[The Pits 4,411]

Sports car interiors haven't progressed beyond this, the Ferrari 288 GTO, for me:

And by the way I have the same indicator stalks in my Lancia Integrale!

 

 

[C8RKH 6,749]

Oh my, that is lovely but what, no cupholders, no decent ICE and no climate control. Meh, must be crap then!   However, that is one place I would love to be

[Peegee355 83]

I've owned Ferraris blah blah blah. My stock Evora interior is drop dead gorgeous and I look forward to being there every single day.  There, i've said it and I mean it.

[The Pits 4,411]

Probably not a 288 GTO though I don't imagine. Besides, Ferraris from that era had quite a bit in common with the current Evora interior. Door handles are very similar for a start and the 'parts bin' accusation applies equally.

Remind me again where the Evora interior falls short. I keep forgetting...

 

[au-yt 504]

Humor me for a moment, going back to the start of the thread, this is Jalopnik thoughts on the car that won and the title says it all

2020 Mazda 3 And Hyundai Veloster N: Two Very Different Ways To Do An Economy Car You Actually Want

https://jalopnik.com/2020-mazda-3-and-hyundai-veloster-n-two-very-different-1839303132

As you were

 

[series_one 77]

An Evora with S1 dash/interior & seats

in the new US market GT (better doors/armrests etc) Evora 

with the 430 front in-clam wheel air pressure vents

with 430 bhp

with S1 18/19 wheels and tires

 

would do it for me. 

 

But any of the Bahar designs with a manual gearbox would also give me a ‘next car’ target. 

[LotusLeftLotusRight 1,413]

5 hours ago, The Pits said:

Sports car interiors haven't progressed beyond this, the Ferrari 288 GTO, for me:

And by the way I have the same indicator stalks in my Lancia Integrale!

 

 

Never seen those red accents on a 288 GTO before. I’ve only ever seen all black interiors. Is that a factory option?

[The Pits 4,411]

No idea but for what they charge I think you should be able to have what you want. I really like it in all black too, contrasts nicely with the orange dials. 👍