Stevens or Giugiaro

[gvy]

Pick your esprit. 3 main model variants on my driveway

A Giorgetto Giugiaro S2.2

A Peter Stevens SE

A Julian Thomson S4

Sadly I only own the S2.2. I would love to have an S4S or a GT. On the other hand, as the cars get older now,and it isn't about the sheer hp or performances anymore , since the current and coming ( electric ) cars are way faster from 0-60mph  and modern suspensions and braking power have become so much better, I somehow validate the classic looks of my older S2.2 more and more. anyway, Giorgetto Giugiaro sounds more posh 😁

Edited January 1, 2020 by gvy

[Barrykearley]

31 minutes ago, andydclements said:

And then could  a lot of those V8 problems could be traced back to poor / lack of preventative maintenance by previous owners?

We still on about marriage 🤭

[swindon_alan]

The point still stands though Barry. Keep either of them very well serviced and they will be fine...

[swindon_alan]

42 minutes ago, gvy said:

@gvy what's that hiding in the garage Geert?

[Tim H]

Yes if the service has been done correctly on a V8 and done by someone you know or has experiance on this type of car then I would be happy.... As with previous threads on here, you know who you would trust to build your engine, or service the car! Its not an ordinary V8, and pick and choose who to touch it...

[Bazza 907]

11 hours ago, Jacques said:

Very sorry guys, but a mag cannot and will not be able to experience and describe what real ownership long term can. So for me, all those socalled evaluations, articles and what not is not worth the paper or screens they are presented on. For my sake they can go right down the drain. Being that cars from owners on here or elsewhere, it's still the same: nothing wrong with the cars, but an editor writes what he or she wants. And we all know they are biased towards an old german car and always recite Jeremy C. for his irritating nonsense of lots of trou......... So, forget those, this forum so much better by far in terms of getting real oppinions.

 

Jacques

I presume that you've read the article that I referred to?

It compares 5 models of Esprits over 15 pages with no mention of a German car. It also has a good interview with MJK. It was photographed at Hethel, had the support of Lotus and most of the cars were sourced via this forum with owners giving their input which was reproduced. Having owned Esprits for 30 years I would say that it's a pretty good evaluation of the 5 models tested and worth a read if you were considering buying one.

Yes, of course it would be sensible advice to seek owners views on TLF too but prospective owners may well start with a mag before possibly coming on here.

 

[Barrykearley]

And what a fantastic balanced write up it was @Bazza 907 - I can notice the increase in prices on some of the cars presently on the market 🤪

this magazine was the start of it all for me way back when

[gvy]

1 hour ago, swindon_alan said:

@gvy what's that hiding in the garage Geert?

That is my 1970 Opel GT with some classic opel mods added :  CIH 2.2 engine with bosch L-jetronic, GETRAG 5 speed, bigger ventilated opel record discs in front etc.... I own it over 30 years now and paintwork was done in my garage (in a diy boot)  by myself.

SAM_5269 by gvygvy, on Flickr

[swindon_alan]

That is truly delicious Geert, I've never seen one before. Tip - follow Geert's link for lots more pics.

@LOTUSMAN33 Dave, apologies for going off topic sir!

[C8RKH]

2 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Think this can be put down to the absolute horrendous costs if things do go wrong - A V8 is a bit like marriage.

 

2 hours ago, andydclements said:

And then could  a lot of those V8 problems could be traced back to poor / lack of preventative maintenance by previous owners?

In so many ways like a marriage!  Hugely expensive if things go wrong and if you had talked to previous owners you'd have realised the maintenance costs were too high for the smiles delivered.

[Jacques]

no, haven't read the article, and have no interest in doing so. There may be or may not be interesting articles once in a while. Of course it is only natural if a car-owner sees his or her car in an article, with nice photoshots and all. But generally, no, I have no interest in it so I just don't read or buy it. I stand by my words in the above

And yes, there has been talks on and off of how facinated editors are by that german car.

Kind regards,

jacques

[jep]

6 hours ago, gvy said:

I somehow validate the classic looks of my older S2.2 more and more. anyway, Giorgetto Giugiaro sounds more posh 😁

I had a S2.2 Esprit in the 90's. Gold with brown trim and matching brown Panasonic stereo cassette player. It also had a sunroof, rather tastefully done (no AC of course) with a 50/50 split so you could have one glass panel to vent or remove, or both. I have never seen another sunroof like it since.

Stunning looking cars and nicely put together. I am not sure the NVH was fully sorted on the S2.2 but I enjoyed it very much all the same.

Justin

[Tim H]

4 hours ago, C8RKH said:

 

In so many ways like a marriage!  Hugely expensive if things go wrong and if you had talked to previous owners you'd have realised the maintenance costs were too high for the smiles delivered.

I spoke too two of the previous owners of the car I bought and looked at the bills and for the last 16 years the maintainence bills have never ever outweighed the smile it puts on my face... everytime I hear the thud of the engine starting and the torque up the Derbyshire hills never fails to be a win win for me..... 😀

[C8RKH]

41 minutes ago, Tim H said:

I spoke too two of the previous owners of the car I bought and looked at the bills and for the last 16 years the maintainence bills have never ever outweighed the smile it puts on my face... everytime I hear the thud of the engine starting and the torque up the Derbyshire hills never fails to be a win win for me..... 😀

I was referring to the marriage lol...

Lotus cars are a lot less trouble and usually fun not serious...

[andydclements]

Yep, and of the two types of discussion (Marriage vs V8) one may well depend on the tools (it's a poor mechanic that blames them...).

[910Esprit]

I see Harry Metcalf was eulogising (again) about his G Turbo in his latest video (his review of 2019 costs) and that's against some serious competition.  

[Jacques]

Well, it may be "Lots of tickets, usually serious"... Speed tickets that is.

Anyway, it's all good fun to read this thread, as there are lots of interpretations of what's good and what's not so good, all done by owners. How it should be. Not by a mag. Cheers and Happy New Year!

jacques

[C8RKH]

I only buy magazines for the pictures. My wife says that when I grow up she'll teach me reading, but only if I'm a good boy and do what she says. So I'm f......

Have an itch for either a G Car, or a GT3. Spotted one of each and am scratching like hell.

The G, both outside an in, just looks sublime. When you compare it to other cars, same age, it is just marvellously fantastic. It really is art, dirty art, porn even!

But then a later GT3, uncluttered at tge rear with only a ducktail and no after thought wing, with the modernised dash and cowling, and again, it really is sublime.

What cracking cars. Amazing. Lotus at it's best (also looking at G S2 too).

Who knows. This year may be the year... This little boy is dreaming...

 

[swindon_alan]

@LOTUSMAN33

S4s

[Escape]

On 31/12/2019 at 16:22, cbclotus said:

Hi Dave .Hope alls well .Like a lot of things looking back .My SE turbo was a fine car .one that my wife  says I should of kept .yup she was right .now owned by Philip .nice guy .but they are all stunning cars .problem will be finding one .Good luck  .Mike

Mike, good to hear from you again! I can confirm the SE you owned is a real good example, I added another 15k miles in 2019, total now close to 150k and still going strong. 🙂 BTW, it's the silver one in the line-up @gvy posted. That was exactly 4 years ago today! 

I do think the G cars look even better with the sharper lines and 80s design cues. That green S2.2 illustrates that perfectly, certainly easily standing up to its newer siblings. And it sounds and goes the part as well. But for a daily driver, I prefer injection and just a bit more creature comforts. ABS, PAS etc I don't need/want, so another vote for an early SE. I also prefer the look of the interior to that of the later cars, it feels more special, even if slightly less spacious.

Best advice is to drive one, then make up your mind. After all, it's an emotional decision for most if not all of us.

Filip

[Dan E]

3 hours ago, swindon_alan said:

@LOTUSMAN33

S4s

Alan, I keep looking at that one and wondering why it hasn’t been snapped up. I would be sorely tempted if I had the room and wasn’t doing the house this year. 

[Barrykearley]

Pah just makes room @Dan E and add it onto the next job 🤭

[stephenwhyte]

7 hours ago, C8RKH said:

I only buy magazines for the pictures. My wife says that when I grow up she'll teach me reading, but only if I'm a good boy and do what she says. So I'm f......

Have an itch for either a G Car, or a GT3. Spotted one of each and am scratching like hell.

The G, both outside an in, just looks sublime. When you compare it to other cars, same age, it is just marvellously fantastic. It really is art, dirty art, porn even!

But then a later GT3, uncluttered at tge rear with only a ducktail and no after thought wing, with the modernised dash and cowling, and again, it really is sublime.

What cracking cars. Amazing. Lotus at it's best (also looking at G S2 too).

Who knows. This year may be the year... This little boy is dreaming...

 

Allow me to provide you with some mucky filth to oogle over - I know you like a bit of red ‘n black😎😉 

Mine will be getting used a bit more this year all going well.....but has some mechanical future proofing to be attended to first at the end of the month 👍

[gvy]

1 hour ago, Escape said:

 But for a daily driver, I prefer injection and just a bit more creature comforts. ABS, PAS etc I don't need/want, so another vote for an early SE. I also prefer the look of the interior to that of the later cars, it feels more special, even if slightly less spacious.

Best advice is to drive one, then make up your mind. After all, it's an emotional decision for most if not all of us.

Filip

That is so right.

Injection does make an engine run more stable. Hot , cold, whatever, turn and start... No special starting procedures when cold or hot engine, also more stable when idling for a long time in some cue . My 1970 GT was changed from original carb to a vintage analogue Bosch L-jetronic system ( must be seventies) and still, that engine starts and runs so good.

Now there is this direct response and a nice sound  that is good fun with well sorted sidedraft carbs, but In the past I have considered throttle bodies with programmable injection and a lambda + programmable ignition on my esprit. Didn't do it for originallity sake and because my carbs are well ballanced.

But once programmed it just makes an engine run in optimum condition all the time from start,idle upto high revs, so safe and stable, no lean or rich conditions , always spot on.

So yes an SE is way better sorted then an S1 or S2 esprit.

There is also the chapman strut rear suspension on the S1 and S2 cars. Lightweight and fun, together with the inboard discs because of the low unsprung weight. It makes these early cars so nimble. BUT again, it puts a lot of strain on the gearbox and driveshafts,  uses the engine as a part of the suspension, and transfers a lot of noise into the cabin, so reliability and comfort is better on the later cars. Now the S3 and Turbo esprit, both Giugiaro, didn't have the chapman strut anymore.

Geert

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by gvy

[LOTUSMAN33]

Funny Fabian was only saying today how his S1 is so much more raw to drive than the refinement of his turbo which has minimal road noise compared to the S1. I did enjoy my S1 and S2 cars though finding them good fun to drive and loved the induction noise the DHLA provided.

Dave