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swindon_alan

ECM Repairs/Exchanges

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One of our Esprit specialists looks to have spotted the gap in the market as far as ECMs are concerned. As we all understand, replacement V8 ECMs are just about non-existent. Mike S in Germany knows someone who can repair them and there might be a few other places around. I hadn't noticed this before but Esprit Engineering down the road from me in Salisbury formalised a repair and replacement offering a year ago (both 4 pot and 8 pot ECMs):

image.png.56530cf61cd153031ddd9d1ecae19f42.png

The prices are pretty good too, compared to having a completely useless Esprit sat on the drive:

image.png.7ca718c88cfef3a3a7551b9597308a29.png

As to whether they sub these out to someone like Bluestreak Electronics, ano or they have in-house expertise is a moot point if they can get them fixed. Also as an Approved Lotus Heritage Repair Centre they probably have the inside track on the internals and factory test gear (e.g. TECH-1 scanner and module for the V8).

I think it is brilliant!

As some know, I have been slowly working on my own low cost V8 (and eventually 4 pot) ECM, I'm probably about 20% of the way there. This makes me wonder if it is worth continuing with the development? Time for a poll perhaps.

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I tempted fate...now my Esprit V8 IS in bits...(sob)

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Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.

Sorry to say it @swindon_alan - but I think there will be a need for an aftermarket v8 solution 

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Only here once

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Alan, did you ever get anything useful out of my burned out ECU?

It's good to know the ECU wont be the limiting factor in keeping our beloved cars on the road!

Filip


I have made many mistakes in my life. Buying a multiple Lotus is not one of them.

 

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41 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

Sorry to say it @swindon_alan - but I think there will be a need for an aftermarket v8 solution 

@Barrykearley What's your thinking Barry? If that in the longer term there will be a dearth then I think I agree with you?

PS can you post in my poll please, I'm not sure if it works or not... Ta

15 minutes ago, Escape said:

Alan, did you ever get anything useful out of my burned out ECU?

It's good to know the ECU wont be the limiting factor in keeping our beloved cars on the road!

Filip

Yup and thank you for that Filip. It is sat on my "To Do" shelf. As per Derek's post on the Stevens forum the 4 pot isn't as urgent as the V8. The biggest problem I am going to have with it is sourcing the connectors, two pairs of 22 way keyed and I can't find them anywhere!

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I tempted fate...now my Esprit V8 IS in bits...(sob)

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Please forgive my lack of knowledge on this but why is there such an issue with the v8 ecu?  Is there no options of using an aftermarket ecu such as a DTA or an Emerald etc.  I know when I had my old TVR cerebra a few of the owners had converted to emerald and I used to run these on my old k series track cars?  
 

please don’t take this as a sarcastic post, I am just trying to increase my own knowledge of the esprit as I feel I will need it !!!!!!

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No, not taken as sarcastic at all! As you can see from this post, the EFI MT-501 ECM that the V8 uses has a lot of integration with the abundant car systems. It's not just a question of whacking in an aftermarket ECU that will run the ignition, fuel injection, boost and so on. It also has to drive the speedo, tacho, aircon, recirc relay, radiator fans, engine overheat lamp, the CEL, plus all of the OBD gubbins etc. The other problem is that Lotus has never released the maps for the V8 so setting up an Emerald etc. requires a lot of dyno time to get right. I give you this thread, just adding a Megasquirt looks fun but not straightforward. Numerous owners have gone down the aftermarket route and fair play but the investment in time and money looks to be substantial.

The aim is to develop a like-for-like drop in replacement with some extra bells and whistles (if desired).

Hope that makes it clear!

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I tempted fate...now my Esprit V8 IS in bits...(sob)

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Ah, perfectly clear now.  So it’s like the ecu also does all the body control module stuff that modern cars are fitted with

I think  having the option of anything that keeps the cars running is a huge plus.  I guess the work invlolved needs weighing up against what the limits are of esprit engineering.  Can they supply brand new ECU’s, can they repair anything with ink the ecu or only certain chip types etc

 

respect to you Alan for your perseverance and your cross referencing posts has been most useful  during my rebuild 👍🏻

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Hmm interesting thread. I wonder which company in Germany repaired my v8 ECU almost 2 yrs ago. Took them 8 mo and the day after the previous owner installed it, I bought the car and drove it home with a flame coming out my tailpipe from a misfiring cylinders on the left bank. Coilpack and igniter shot  

I never knew what the initial repair was for but I do see some repair work to the board and it has been chipped. I hate chips lol

Although I would not be buying into this, I would love to brainstorm. All v8 megasquirt for me running and tuning. It’s all relative to this thread though. 

23 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Sorry to say it @swindon_alan - but I think there will be a need for an aftermarket v8 solution 

This guy..... 

Edited by v8GTmac1
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On 09/01/2020 at 12:02, swindon_alan said:

@Barrykearley What's your thinking Barry? If that in the longer term there will be a dearth then I think I agree with you?

PS can you post in my poll please, I'm not sure if it works or not... Ta

Yup and thank you for that Filip. It is sat on my "To Do" shelf. As per Derek's post on the Stevens forum the 4 pot isn't as urgent as the V8. The biggest problem I am going to have with it is sourcing the connectors, two pairs of 22 way keyed and I can't find them anywhere!

You know couple years back I was able to get the Bosch 88 pin connector from diyautotune. Not anymore on their site. 

 

But it what I do k ow is that there a bunch of junkyard ecu using the same connector. 

BMW and Hyundai just to name a few. That’s how I would do it , cannibalize a junked ecu. 

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Thanks Michael for the suggestion. Perhaps a slight misunderstanding here though.

I'm ok with the 88 pin 918 ECM connectors, I can get Bosch pcb mount lookalikes from China for about $25 each.

image.png.04bc86ae9c5367962e7fde2b97000564.png

 

I can even source the plugs, although quite pricey I won't need many of them (only for dev/test).

image.jpeg.d183b5d29b2c97114d069e312a94ec37.jpeg

The twin pairs of keyed 22 pin connectors I was referring to are for the SE onward 4 pots, which appear to be unobtanium!

image.thumb.png.f57e4e47290f9dc4ad4d45041c51ef79.png

 


I tempted fate...now my Esprit V8 IS in bits...(sob)

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s-l1600.jpgLooks to me that 4x22 pin ECM style was used 90-93 on GM Regal, Cutlass, Grand Prix, Lumina etc on several engines.  And probably others, I'm really at a loss on "domestic" cars. Hopefully none of these cars ever made it to your shores, but perhaps one of the contemporary 3.1,3.4,3.8L V6's ended up over there in something GM?

Assuming you want the module side connector to plug into the Lotus harness, and could strip them out of an ECM, and can find reasonable shipping from the colonies, here's some EBay results:

Lowest price I saw:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-Control-Module-ECM-ECU-Genuine-GM-Part-16149396/293172997659?hash=item444278ee1b:g:Al4AAOSwfmddQgr~

By some part numbers;

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=GM+%2B+(16149396%2C01227727%2C1227727%2C16197128%2C16177107%2C16132792%2C77-8708%2C77-9396)&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=GM+%2B+(16149396%2C01227727%2C1227727%2C16197128%2C16177107%2C77-8708%2C77-9396)

By car model, swap various years into the search for differing results:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=Engine+Control+Module++92+%2B(corvette%2Ccutlass%2Cgrand+prix%2Cregal%2Clumina%2C+3.1l%2C3.4l%2C3.8l%2C2.3l)&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=Engine+Control+Module++93+%2B(corvette%2Ccutlass%2Cgrand+prix%2Cregal%2Clumina%2C+3.1l%2C3.4l%2C3.8l%2C2.3l)

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The  16149396 ECU may not be a suitable replacement as it has some different IC's on its circuit board and it looks like it has only one injector driver.

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I can confirm the 16149396 ECU is not a suitable replacement the the Esprit's ECU as it only has one injector driver. It would be OK for salvaging parts, such as the four connectors, from it though.

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Hi guys here is the number for the 4 pot ecu. tons on ebay for 150 bucks u.s. max.

01228708

Edited by tmusc
just make sure you keep your memcal chip

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I have something to add and would love everyones thoughts. Due to my recent Megasquirt ventures, I have realized that doing full sequential on the standard v8 equipment was not going to be possible. Reason being the crank pulley only has 4 vanes passing the sensor on a full revolution. The cam sensor is there to identify CYL #1. 

But I strongly believe you need 8 vanes on the crank for all cylinders to fire individually. The way it currently runs from the factory is only firing 4 times, 2 cylinders at a time completing the combustion. 

Thoughts?

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4 marks on the crank and 1 one the cam is enough to detemine the position of each cylinder and associated valves.

At revs the time between the injection point for the different cylinders and the duration of injection are probably similar enough so it doesn't really matter if you extrapolate the position of each cylinder within one revolution of the crank. 

Firing 4 times for 8 cylinders is like wasted spark, maybe it was just easier to use something similar? Or the injection in 2 steps is deliberate to get better mixture and/or more accurate control compared to one long burst?

Filip


I have made many mistakes in my life. Buying a multiple Lotus is not one of them.

 

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More crank teeth should give the ECM better info on crank position and acceleration, but I would guess it could do the math with four vanes.

 

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