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Damaged synchros

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Apparently I have broken a synchro, months after my CR box was rebuilt at great cost.

 

So I have to pay for a second major repair including engine and box removal in less than 12 months.

 

Anyone else experienced synchro damage on their car?

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I am not aware this is a common Evora gearbox issue. I have done 65000 miles, gearbox fine. 

What is the story with your issues? 

Justin 

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who did the rebuild, surely all items would have been inspected at that point and refreshed...    what are the symtoms?  c

 

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As this is live case I'm going to be guarded with the details.  For now I'm specifically interested if anyone else has had any experience with a damaged synchromesh.  Damaged as in teeth worn off the synchro ring as well as wear to the baulk ring.

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ok.. good luck with a positive outcome..

 

 

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just a thought

id be asking if the damage now at XXX miles since the rebuild could occur or was it present when the rebuild took place..  unless it was just to fix a specifi problem and not a recondition..  then surely worn synchro mesh would be easy spotted?

 

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I would think if this were a common issue on the Toyota box, we would have heard a lot about it. It is not something that ever came up when I did my due diligence before buying an Evora. You tend to find out pretty quickly if a model of car has common faults. 

Renault Clio synchro issues are common, 70s Elite/Eclat had gearbox issues, Esprit Citroen 'box can have first motion shaft issues...….I would say the synchromesh problem is not common on the Evora.

Good luck. I am sure if you 'phoned a few Lotus specialists, they would know. I can ask B&C if you like.

Justin

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Thank you jep and andyj007.  I have of course queried along all possible lines as it seems too coincidental that I should experience such a failure a few short months and relatively few miles after a complete rebuild.

 

i have been assured that the rebuild was done thoroughly, that there was no problem with the synchro when the box was rebuilt, and the failure is 100% due to poor gear-changing technique on my part.  I appreciate the box does not like to be rushed, but surely one must be trying really hard to grind off synchromesh teeth particularly on a freshly-rebuilt box that has passed QC inspection and therefore to all intents and purposes should be as new?  The car has had no track usage in my ownership, and as mentioned above I've never broken a synchromesh before in more than 30 years of owning cars of all makes.

 

I've done a pretty comprehensive trawl of publicly-available info.  When the internal gearsets failed I was able to find a number of other instances of the issue.  So far I haven't come across another instance of synchromeshes failing on V6 'boxes. 

 

Justin if you wouldn't mind asking B+C I'd be most grateful.

Edited by plenty

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@plenty Bell and Colvill say this is very unusual. They cannot recall ever having even taken a gearbox apart. IE. They are very reliable. 

Justin 

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It isn't a common occurrence recorded anywhere. The synchros do wear and can cause issues in selecting a gear at speed, but I haven't heard of any completely failing enough to need a rebuild.

Check in the states as I believe the tuners out there have offered 'improved' synchros for these boxes.

 

 

 

 

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Thank you Jep and Bruss.  Unfortunately it looks like I'll just have to suck it up and pay up again.  That now pushes my spend on the transmission alone to five figures in less than 12 months.

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2 minutes ago, plenty said:

That now pushes my spend on the transmission alone to five figures in less than 12 months.

I'd start considering your method of gear changing, assuming the clutch is correctly adjusted do you always push the pedal all the way to the floor (does the Evora have a plastic clutch hose & suffer from ballooning like the Esprit?) & also do you snatch the gear change? Synchros need time to work & if the gear change is done gently enough the transmission oil will do most of the synchronisation so hardly wearing the synchro cones at all. If the transmission was rebuilt correctly using genuine parts then another rebuild will produce the same results.   :thumbup:


Cheers,

John W

http://jonwatkins.co.uk

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If you are paying again I'd take it to a different gearbox rebuilder. Look for a known gearbox specialist who understands the importance of correct set up and clearances. Also consider fitting an oil cooler to the gearbox, Randy at Hoffmans can help with that possibly. 

Re the gear change. I always even on track use the old fashioned way, gear-lever from gear 1 to neutral, microsecond wait, gear lever to gear 2. Unless you are racing there is no need to snatch a gear (and even then it's overated. .

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All excellent advice which I take on board. And perhaps if I am prone to this sort of self-inflicted issue (albeit it’s never happened before to me or anyone else with a V6 as far as I can tell), then it’s unwise to own a car that requires 30+ hours of labour to remove and refit its gearbox.

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To be clear. I wasn't suggesting this is caused by gear changes or indeed that you were in anyway heavy handed. Your synchro problem sounds unusual and isn't imo related to normal use at all. My comments are just general how to make the changes smoother and gear box feel newer for longer. If the gear changes were going in without crunching then this is an unusual failure. 

Edit: Failing twice is blddy unusual. It suggests something else is amiss.

Edited by Bruss

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Thanks Bruss.  In the three years I’ve owned the car I’ve crunched gears twice, maybe three times.  The specialist insists that he damage is caused by me changing too quickly.  I don’t see I have any option other than to pay up and chalk it down to experience.

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one of the lotus sellers  on the facebook page had 2 new old stock gearboxes short ratios for sale for just over 1k,  not sure if hes still got them, ut he lives in sudbury and always has lotus bits for sale that i think he gets from the factory , may be worth a serach on ebay?   just remembered his name i think phill peek  

 

 

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ES Motorsport race Evoras and sell spares so could be worth a call

 

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2 hours ago, andyj007 said:

one of the lotus sellers  on the facebook page had 2 new old stock gearboxes short ratios for sale for just over 1k,  not sure if hes still got them, ut he lives in sudbury and always has lotus bits for sale that i think he gets from the factory , may be worth a serach on ebay?   just remembered his name i think phill peek 

Phil Peek is definitely worth touching base with. Phil has been around for years and really helped on 340R stuff over the years.

Justin 

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8 hours ago, plenty said:

Thanks Bruss.  In the three years I’ve owned the car I’ve crunched gears twice, maybe three times.  The specialist insists that he damage is caused by me changing too quickly.  I don’t see I have any option other than to pay up and chalk it down to experience.

This all sounds very odd. I see no reason why the Evora gearbox cannot take a lot of abuse. It has no reputation for failure.

I recall speaking to LotusBits about the Toyota box in the Excel. They said they had never had to rebuild one, even with their race cars. LotusBits have been working on Excels for 20 years plus, including racing them; and racing them hard with uprated BHP.

I appreciate the Excel box is nothing to do with Evora but unless a gearbox is prone to failure and has some reputation for failure, you have a good case for complaint with regard your situation. Of course, the slight snag is why your box had an issue to start with...…….and then repeated the problem. All very odd.

I would not be sucking this up without asking some hard questions and speaking to other specialists. Komotec? They must know a bit about what these gearboxes can take. 

Justin

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Unless I have missed it, synchro between which gears? What about other synchros? I find it highly unlikely that it is only one if you are apparently ‘gear changing’ incorrectly.


All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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5 hours ago, Bibs said:

Thanks Bibs - I have one new complete manual gearbox for sale still if it works out any cheaper £2750

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8 hours ago, jep said:

This all sounds very odd. I see no reason why the Evora gearbox cannot take a lot of abuse. It has no reputation for failure.

I recall speaking to LotusBits about the Toyota box in the Excel. They said they had never had to rebuild one, even with their race cars. LotusBits have been working on Excels for 20 years plus, including racing them; and racing them hard with uprated BHP.

I appreciate the Excel box is nothing to do with Evora but unless a gearbox is prone to failure and has some reputation for failure, you have a good case for complaint with regard your situation. Of course, the slight snag is why your box had an issue to start with...…….and then repeated the problem. All very odd.

I would not be sucking this up without asking some hard questions and speaking to other specialists. Komotec? They must know a bit about what these gearboxes can take. 

Justin

Thanks Justin.  The original issue was something completely different...loss of sixth gear, traced to a failed gearset.

 

The fundamental issue is that these cars require 30+ hours to undergo a diagnosis.  Had I known that the synchromesh was about to fail necessitating a second repair I would have installed a new box rather than authorise a rebuild.  Hindsight, etc.

 

There have been hard questions asked this week, and the specialist is standing their ground.  The gearbox removal work has been done.  My options are to either fight it and potentially incur a long delay with no guarantee of a positive outcome, or pay up and move on.  I have no fear of a fight however for reasons I won’t go into here I need the car back fairly soon, so my hands are fairly tied.  It is safe to say sadly that I will not own another Lotus.

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7 hours ago, ramjet said:

Unless I have missed it, synchro between which gears? What about other synchros? I find it highly unlikely that it is only one if you are apparently ‘gear changing’ incorrectly.

4th gear only.  4th was one of the gearsets replaced in the first rebuild although the original synchros were given a clean bill of health after inspection and re-used.

 

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