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Is electric really the answer


pete

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I see Toyota have just launched a SUV EV, and I wonder what typing error they had to come up to get such a catchy name.....ALL NEW TOYOTA     bZ4X .

https://www.am-online.com/news/new-car-news/car-model-news/2021/12/15/toyota-reveals-all-electric-bz4x-suv-pricing-starting-at-41-950

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Yesterdays Fifth gear included a short review of the MG ZS EV long range, I expected them to really rubbish it, but it was better than I expected. 

It is cheap ish, reasonably well put together and ok to drive and a good range, but they did not like to strange location for the 'fuel' cap in the front.

There was also a piece about hydrogen buses and the massive Toyota.

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Is it just me or is there a propensity for all of these EVs that are hitting the market to have the grill area all filled in?

What does that do to the Cd of the vehicle? Air that used to flow through the car now has to stop, basically change direction by 90 degrees until it reaches the edge and then goes on its merry way under, around or over as the case may be?

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

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Turbulance. Smooth surfaces create less of it, and it creates more drag.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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On 25/12/2021 at 08:48, ramjet said:

Is it just me or is there a propensity for all of these EVs that are hitting the market to have the grill area all filled in?

What does that do to the Cd of the vehicle? Air that used to flow through the car now has to stop, basically change direction by 90 degrees until it reaches the edge and then goes on its merry way under, around or over as the case may be?

There is no need for engine cooling, so in general they are blanked off for aerodynamic reasons. Air going through the grille has to exit somewhere and generally that would be in a messy, high energy state. If you don't let it in, you can control the airflow surface attachment better. Even ICE cars often have active grille shutters on them to reduce airflow into the engine area unless it is needed for cooling.

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Teardrop shape is most efficient, with the rounded bit at the front and the pointy bit at the back.

Reference Olympic cyclists hemets or speed skiing outfits for how this is applied to gain advantages.

If you need to have air going through the car you need radical designs to make it efficient like the Evija. 😘

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Electric may not be the answer, I really don't know, but this is not too shabby.

image.jpeg

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

For forum issues, please contact one of us Moderators.

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Noticed this on the BBC this morning.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/26/dont-learn-gear-changes-young-drivers-told-manual-cars-obsolete/

Young drivers increasingly no longer need to learn how to change gear ahead of the coming revolution in electric cars, the President of the AA has said.

Edmund King said younger learners were already choosing “simpler” lessons in automatic cars because new petrol and diesel vehicles will be banned from the roads in 2030.

In the New Year, the largest driving school in the country will roll out electric car driving lessons nationally for the first time.

Rather than learning how and when to change gear, pupils at the AA-owned British School of Motoring will be taught to conserve their battery and drive with one pedal.

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  • Gold FFM
39 minutes ago, exeterjeep said:

Young drivers increasingly no longer need to learn how to change gear ahead of the coming revolution in electric cars

Yup - definitely a thing. Daisy did only an auto test - her instructor switched to only auto about 3 years ago since there was an obvious need and a void. Danny did manual - mainly cos he’s eyeing up the contents of my garage - and there’s not an auto in there.

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Only here once

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There are still a lot of manual cars out there and there will be a lot of kids that won't be able to just up and buy an EV as a first car. Hell, I'm 59 and I would not shell out for one yet.

The other part of that is that over here in Australia, like your first motorbike, there are rules as to which car you can have as a first vehicle while you are on P plates. High powered V8's aren't allowed. Other performance vehicles aren't allowed. I would expect that just about any EV has a lot more torque and will be able to accelerate hard enough to get inexperienced drivers into trouble.

I think they need to do more work looking into how they are going to manage this.

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All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

For forum issues, please contact one of us Moderators.

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Thinking about it - the only manuals in the house are the tractor, esprit, vitesse and Danny’s polo. Everything else is auto - my van, volvo, EV Kona, figaro, Daisy’s UP - the next van I get will defo be dsg again as well. The missus will never own a manual again that’s for sure

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  • 2 weeks later...

Cornwall pilot plant produces lithium carbonate

A pilot plant has managed to produce lithium carbonate, a key component used in rechargeable batteries for smartphones and electric cars.

Lithium has been produced on a pilot scale from the mica in granite at a plant near Roche, in Cornwall.

British Lithium plans to create 5kg of lithium carbonate a day for the first part of 2022 before expanding.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-59882018

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My daughter is 17 in May and we’ve been discussing this. Planning on doing a manual test as she likes driving (as in go karts). Been showing up her older brothers since she was 13. I think she may want to be able to drive future classics. I suspect it won’t be long until almost all new tests are manual. I wonder if eventually the auto test will entitle you to drive manuals too. We don’t after all have to take a test to drive a model A. 

Blessed with the competence to be a slave to the incapable.

Currently without a Lotus, Evora 400 Hethel Edition in Racing Green with Red leather and 2010 Evora N/A in Laser Blue and 1983 Lotus Excel LC Narrow body in Ice Blue all sadly gone.

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@Colin P We are in a similar situation, my daughter is currently learning to drive and she is looking for a first car and a couple of classics as on her list of potentials.

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10 hours ago, Colin P said:

I suspect it won’t be long until almost all new tests are manual.

I'd have thought that in 10-15-20 years time they will virtually all be auto and so the manual gearbox will only be on old cars for old timers ....

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In eight years time no more ICE as new. But there will still be some 18m ICE manual cars on the road in the UK and in the second hand market. I think a lot of normal punters are being misled into thinking you will only be able to drive electric from 2030, not that you just won't be able to drive an ICE.

Young people very rarely buy new cars - their priority more and more is getting on the housing ladder, so that means in 8 years time, a 9 year old now will be looking to take a lesson at 17. What are the chances of them going straight out and buying a new Electric car?  The 2nd hand ones will still be expensive, more so than an ICE as the demand will be for electric new. Also, many of the electric cars  on the 2nd hand market will be 5-10 years old and let's call them gen 1. What condition will their batteries be in and what will be the cost of replacement?

I ask, because I was talking to someone who works in a Porsche dealership. He told me to steer clear of the Taycan (lot's of issues) and that even a 5 year old Panamera Hybrid is practically worthless if a fault with the batteries as Porsche no longer has access to those batteries - so it would mean a full rip out and replace of them all even for a couple of cells. The cost would be in the tens of thousands, or, about the value of what was 5 years before, a £100k car!!!!

The AA have come out with this notice because they want to publicise their new "driving school" facilities and generate demand. Pure marketing bullshit in my very humble opinion. A lot of people will swallow it and then get shafted over the next few years.

Electric is the future (by the way, I think the designs that Kia are coming out with now and being "previewed" are stunning and we will see a continued shift in volumes from the "old" western car manufacturers of the US, Europe, to the East as people realise that as well as looking good they are better built, more reliable and have far better warranties for piece of mind) but the transition is going to take 20 years so anyone advising a 17 year old now, to take a test purely based on "electric" is in my, again, very humble opinion, a nut job.  :)  It's not the "cool aid" some people are drinking, but the battery fluid which is charging their brains!

 

Edited by Bravo73
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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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4 hours ago, exeterjeep said:

I'd have thought that in 10-15-20 years time they will virtually all be auto and so the manual gearbox will only be on old cars for old timers ....

That's what I meant!! Oops

3 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Young people very rarely buy new cars

 

Those that want a car will lease them, just like their phones, music, homes, movies. Crikey with most of them you are lucky if they own the clothes on their back.

Blessed with the competence to be a slave to the incapable.

Currently without a Lotus, Evora 400 Hethel Edition in Racing Green with Red leather and 2010 Evora N/A in Laser Blue and 1983 Lotus Excel LC Narrow body in Ice Blue all sadly gone.

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True, even there they seem to buy online, wear once, then send back as a return!  This generation is either very clever or has no scruples.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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I fear stories like this will only increase as the early EV's, PHEV's in particular, start to see their batteries go end of life.  I quoted above the issues with the Panamera (and the Trashcan) but more and more issues will prevail.

Mercedes owner 'horrified' to discover new battery will cost more than car is worth

A DRIVER was stunned to discover the cost to replace his Mercedes Benz's battery is £15,000 - more than the value of the vehicle itself.

Ranjit bought the second-hand Mercedes Benz hybrid car four years ago, believing its lower CO2 emissions meant it was greener than the alternatives. The motorist, from Knighton, Leicester, bought it for £27,000 at a Mercedes Benz dealership. learnt this week the battery had come to the end of its life after just eight years of motoring.

He claims he was quoted £15,000 for a battery replacement - excluding labour costs which he was quoted would be roughly around £200 an hour.

Speaking to Leicestershire Live, the dad said: "I have always been a Mercedes customer and loved the cars they produce and we bought the car for its reliability.

"I'm horrified by what has happened. I feel I now have just two options - scrap the eight-year-old car or spend more than it is worth.

"We checked on Auto Trader and it says the car value now stands at just £12,850."

Ranjit claimed he went to see a hybrid specialist who advised him there was nothing else he could do and that there was no cheaper repair available.

The specialist himself owned a 2018 Mercedes-Benz Hybrid and has the same problem, Mr Ranjit added.

"We also looked online at Mercedes-Benz forums, and found a lot of people facing the same issues. I fear this is only going to get worse," the motorist said.

His daughter Ramnik Kaur, who works in the motoring industry herself, said: "Dad is very disappointed, stressed and doesn't know what to do with the car. As a a retired person, he doesn't have that kind of money.

"Any reasonable person wouldn't expect a car that costs £27,000 would have a battery that would die after eight years.

"It almost feels like mis-selling on Mercedes' part. Had we known this expense was possible at the outset, he would not have purchased it in the first place.

"This information is not readily available and I've only found people discussing it in online forums."

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Went in to our local JLR dealer to have something checked on her car, and had a chat about electric cars etc., guy there said that JLR had hydrogen versions of their cars ready to roll into production, but the chicken and egg situation with hydrogen refilling stations availability and usage.

If a battery only last 6/8 years then there must be a huge impact on being not very eco friendly if the cars just get scrapped and not repaired. More of the throwaway society.

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I wonder ho happy one would be paying over £2m for ones Evija, to find out in 6-8 years the battery pack has almost failed. And it costs 'how much' to change, but I suppose the car will be still worth a lot.

I can see 60 year old baby Elans running around (if fuel still available), longer than most of the current electric cars. A new MG ZS EV starts at just under £27k, long warranty then scrapped soon after the warranty/battery expires.

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