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In Oz, we are victims to the oil companies hiking up the price of petrol each Thursday - when most people get paid.

Don't get me started on public holiday weekend prices...

The government seems to be powerless to this, and even when they run adds on TV claiming a big investigation is underway - the price at the pump jumped 12c/ltr in absolute disregard for the threat.

Is this a world-wide situation? Have any governments had any success?

Iain

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml...ionItemId=86167

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In the current market oil demand is in line with oil supply. Although the major problem is in supplying refined product with the current world wide refining system operating at close to maximum. There is little investment in new refineries as they are very expensive, take a long time to build, are not very popular with people, and complete waste of money as the return on investment will be negligable due to declining crude oil supplies.

Within five years demand will outstrip supply a large margin which will lead to an unavoidable increase in the cost of everything, petrol, food, electricity, travel, white goods, computers, drugs, and beer [unless you have a micro brewery in your shed].

In the UK the government taxes fuel heavily [except aviation fuel] and so it has some leeway in reducing the price paid by the consumer. In the US their is less fat in the system as very little of the price paid is a tax.

Oil companies do not make much money selling fuel at the pump, hence the growth in the size of shops attached to petrol stations. Groceries is where they make money.

There are supply problems all over he globe. In Iran fuel has increased in price by 25% since January, despite being the owner of some of the largest remaining supplies in the world. It is still cheap compared to other countries but demand is now beginning to outstrip supply.

People worldwide expect oil to last forever, it will not as it is a finite resource. The stuff that is easy to get at and is of a high quality has already been extracted. The difficult to extract stuff [and lower quality] is still in the ground but requires greater expense and energy inputs to extract. When oil was first discovered the return ratio was 27:1, now it is closer to 5:1. Within 40 years it will become 1:1, which means it will take one gallon of oil to extract one gallon of oil. Therefore oil extraction will be pointless.

Here in the UK, with the aid of the US our government has done something about the problem, it has invaded Iraq and is standing by to invade Iran. In order to continue to supply cheap oil to the masses we need to get it from the countries that own it. Since they are unlikely to sell it to us on the cheap we are going to have to take it from them, by force if necessary.

Prepare for higher prices, the worlds governments have little control [beyond military intervention] in world economics.

Stuart

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So unfeasibly ill informed

"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked him to forgive me."

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Here in the UK, with the aid of the US our government has done something about the problem, it has invaded Iraq and is standing by to invade Iran. In order to continue to supply cheap oil to the masses we need to get it from the countries that own it. Since they are unlikely to sell it to us on the cheap we are going to have to take it from them, by force if necessary.

Do you think

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With regard to the fuel price hike on payday. I would use pump power.... Use the net to spread the word and boycot the filling stations and show them that as consumers you will not tolerate this or set back enough money to change your filling day so as you can get the cheaper price

The public are trying everything to get around this - radio shows report the cheapest stations each day etc - and people try and buy on 'cheap tues'. I guess a lot of folks can't get in early though and it bites.

I don't have that big a dispute with the bigger-picture stuff discussed above - like refinery investment and depleting oil reserves, as I really don't have all the information on that. But I am reasonably confident it has nothing to do with the apparent 'opportunity' fleecing of the public on pay-days.

Imagine if the price of milk and eggs did the same each fortnight...

Iain

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Iain, what we need to do is impose an effective ban that really bites. Petrol station shopping for whoever is the cheapest doesn't work. They still get to sell later on.

Australians need to target one supplier, and one of the bigger ones eg Shell/BP, with a 24/7 ban for however long (weeks, months)it takes.

Now who can organize that?

DanR

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It;s called what market will stand. They fully understand we cannot live our daily lives without transport and that most of us are addicted to our cars. Government benefit in extra revenue whenever the price increases along with the oil industry and its shareholders with increased rewards. OPEC and the western governments have controlled the price by regulating supply for years, ever since we did not stop the oil producing areas seizing what were originally western assets. I'm not sure that oil is going to run out so quickly, I seem to keep noting reports of assets that will last for at least the next couple of centuries. It may be harder to recover and more expensive because of that but I think it exists. Of course, if they can convince us it is running out, they can use that as an excuse for extracting the highest possible price we will tolerate for it. Here in the UK, they don't bother with payday, they simply charge as much as possible at every opportunity, as they do with everything we consume. Oil producing countries have untold riches for very little effort whilst we struggle our nuts off to pay for it, all because our governments fail to act in our interest, why oh why does anybody vote for any of them?

Capitalism would be a great system if the profits were invested for the good of all, but, as long as they end up giving the fortunate few a lifestyle the rest can only dream about, it stinks to high heavan.

Fuel costs would be very reasonable if greedy, opportunist governments were stopped from wetting their beaks.

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."

- Mario Andretti

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"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked him to forgive me."

------------------------------

ribbon200.gifG-Car Owner and Proud! ribbon200.gif

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ginsberg_reality_sandwich.gif

You know, I think that will happen next - organised boycott of a petrol company for a month to make a public example. Bring it on.

Mind you, we need the DPP that just took down Conrad Black to come over here and get a few scalps!

Reality is fleeting.

Iain

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The word SOLIPISM keeps popping into my head and I don't know why...

Stuart

p.s. Boycotting a restricted supply, interesting...I have boycotted Man Utd my entire life...

Big word for a Sunday heh heh :ice: ... (I had to look it up) I shut my eyes and you all disappear ..see!

Iain

Edited by iainskea
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Here's an interesting report on oil refinery capacity in the US. It's a few years old but interesting nevertheless. Senator's report

This report backs up Stuart's comments about lack of refining capacity and refers to the reasons suggested in the above report.

Stuart is right when he points out that oil will run out but the jury is still out on when.

Personally I would say that oil or petrol has not risen in price as quickly as houses over the last 10 years and there's no cartel involved in raising house prices. I also think that petrol prices have lagged general inflation over the last 10 or 20 years. None of this is to say that the prices could not be lower but, if it's going to run out, you can't blame the OPEC members from keeping prices as high as the market will stand while they can.

(Written by the owner of an economical Lotus.)

S4 Elan, Elan +2S, Federal-spec, World Championship Edition S2 Esprit #42, S1 Elise, Excel SE

 

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