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I have one foot either side of the Channel. In the UK for the winter having chemotherapy for the prostate cancer....hoping to be back on my boat in France in the spring. I have taken full advantage of the "free movement" bit....and spent 13 years as an Immigration Officer too.

 

Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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Sorry to hear you are ill.  I think free movement is a good thing. That may surprise some people. I just do not agree with the way it is done now.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Free movement would be absolutely fine if between UK and France, Germany, USA, Australia, Canada etc.

It does not work between UK and Latvia, Romania, Poland etc. Thats not to say that movement should not be permitted but it cant be completely open. That is where the EU fails. It permits free movement between an arbitrary set of countries based loosely on geography. It should be based on economic status otherwise it causes a one-way movement of skills to the detriment of the country the people come from. 

One of many reasons why the original Common Market was fine. The EU in it present form is not.

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I refuse to be ILL!! Been up against the prostate cancer for 10 years, now....hoping for another ten more, at least. We shall see!!

The UK is like a shining jewel to the rest of the world, pretty much the "destination of choice"....so we must be doing something right. Or wrong....(!)

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Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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5 hours ago, molemot said:

 

And basing the entire future of the UK on such a marginal result does seem to me to be parlous.

 

No, but it is democratic, that's what we were promised, a vote to stay or to leave, and we voted to leave.

It's time for the naysayers and doom mongers to shut up and accept that this is what the people want. Surely the remainers can see, there is no future for us in a Europe which won't allow us to make our own decisions for the benefit of our country.

Like many of the people who voted to leave, level headed, practical minded, British people who can clearly see that the UK is on a downward slippery slope, and change is the only option. 

And those who voted to stay, who are they?  possibly the very intelligent, learned people, who in my experience haven't got an ounce of common sense between them, teachers students doctors, they believe everything they read in the paper, without the ability to see through the bullshit, they can't see that Europe wouldn't survive without a mutual deal with the UK, and are scared to take a chance to make that desperately needed change.

And as far as the non voters go (FAO John Douglas) who are they? The people who couldn't give a shit, the people who don't care, and these are normally the brainless people in society, these are the racists, the anti social youth, the drunks and druggies, do you seriously think these people voted, no, and if they had do you think they would have voted to remain, no.

In fairness we don't need to leave the European Union, but our politicians need to grow some bollocks and say NO to Europe,  we will close our borders, we will defy the European Court and deport terrorists, we will make our own decisions about important british matters. If they don't like it stuff them. They can boot us out. Their loss..!

Rant over.

 

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Haha @Steve V8 what you don't realise - is just like me a white working class 40 year old English family man - our politicians couldn't give a flying f£ck what we think......

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Only here once

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Apologies. I have the same outlook on life and do not "do" being ill:)  I wish you a full recovery, though realise it might take some time.

Freedom of movement is a real issue. For instance, part of the problem is down to the definition and how it is used and miss-used. For instance, when it suits, it is referred to the "freedom, or right to freedom of movement for people from EU state to EU state".  This seems to be the generic term that is rolled out and has little, if no, restrictions.

However, what we often hear, ironically from the EU, and in particular France, Germany and Poland, is that what must be protected is the "freedom or right to freedom of movement for people to work"

I have a problem with the first definition used, as by its very definition it places no restrictions on movement nor the reasons for movement. This has resulted in the creation of a belief that it is OK for people to move from one country to another for improved benefits, whether they be unemployment, housing, child, etc.  I know this is not everyone, before you all start shouting racist etc.  But it does happen, and it does happen quite a bit. I don't pay my taxes to support people who come here as an economic migrant.

I have no problem with the second definition at all. You got a job, come on over. Welcome, You pay your taxes, you get ill, get made unemployed, we support you.

There is a difference, but it is not well explained in general to the public etc.  Basically there is a quid pro quo. Move where you want if you have a job to go to and/or the means to support yourself. But don't move just because you can get a better benefits deal somewhere else.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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I don't think it's that @Barrykearley the only thing the politicians seem to be interested in are themselves, yes there are a few good ones out there, but the majority haven't got a clue what's going on in the real world. 

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1 hour ago, molemot said:

I refuse to be ILL!! Been up against the prostate cancer for 10 years, now....hoping for another ten more, at least. We shall see!!

The UK is like a shining jewel to the rest of the world, pretty much the "destination of choice"....so we must be doing something right. Or wrong....(!)

This is part of the problem John. A lot of the European politicians have a deep seated jealousy of the UK. They seem to think, that we think we are better than them, which often causes a problem when a proposal from UK is put forward it's just vetoed in their stupid games of oneupmanship. It's why we need to get out of there. Let Angela and Francois get married and run Europe,  I personally don't want to be a part of that match made in hell.

Sorry to hear about the cancer John, I understand it's manageable these days, so we can look forward to debating with you for many years to come.

Steve

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8 hours ago, molemot said:

 (Oh, by the way, I currently live in Englefield Green....I do move about a lot.)

The last duel in England

"The last fatal duel in England took place on Priest Hill in 1852. It was between two French refugees..."

 

So John, who's the other French emigre:lol:

 

Just finished reading the last several pages, after a bit of a hiatus from this thread...which I (as a colonial eavesdropper, seeking educational enlightenment) am entirely unqualified to make other than the most general of benighted observations/comments...and was quite pleased to see the "morphing" of the discussion from borderline denigration back to the forum's usual respect for differing points of view. Whewww!:)

It is going to take me some time to fully understand the [apparently] complex interplay between Parliament (Commons and Lords), the Monarchy (largely ceremonial I know), the lack of a formal written Constitution, the various political parties and their nomenclature (and the voter proclivities they represent), the Prime Minister, and the UK Supreme Court. Not to mention the Knights Templar..just kidding...more a French invention than English.

Anyway, carry on my friends, and I will attempt to keep my unlettered comments to a minimum.

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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6 minutes ago, ian29gte said:

. It isn't necessarily going to be easy, but with luck they should be able to keep their smart phones and big-screen TV's.

 

All made in China and the Far East. Don't worry - big screen TVs are safe so watching Jeremy Kyle into the brave new world of Brexit is secured

Only here once

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Wow, so it now seems that Scotland is more important than the whole rest of the UK!  My god. I hope Queen Nicola understands that when she next comes forwards with an Indyref all of this interference will be well remembered and repaid with interest. God help us. The rUK will crucify us with an independence settlement as a result of this and the other stuff.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-37909299

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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anything to stick a spanner or knife or whatever in.....she has a comment on anything and everything of which she has rock all to do with....

I think that she should sort out Scotland and her own party's poor poor show on anything they've been involved with......

lets face it she only after who ever can give the biggest hand out.....probably hoping it'll cover up the almighty cock up in the finances up there so far

The Faster You Drive...The Slower You Age

(Albert Einstein  14 March 1879 - 18 April 1955)

 

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A colleague has just told me that she has just lost several billion in Chinese investment. No doubt this Brexit news will be an attempt to cover up / hide the investment news. They really are that shallow.

I do worry though, living here, that the rUK will see this "noise" from the SNP in an increasing anti-English / anti-rUK light and this is going to create an environment of hate. I just cannot see it ending well, especially if or when Scotland tries to negotiate a soft exit from the rUK. It will be carnage.

Also, given that she says if Brexit is against Scots will and they do not want to leave the EU, whilst the rUK (and a good chunk of Scots too) does and therefore we should respect it, what would happen in Indyref2 if the same argument was used against. Scotland leaving rUk affects us all, so rUK says NO and she and her SNP cronies need to respect that? Oh my, can you imagine the reaction. It would be war and the fields of bannockburn and culloden would be awash with tartan and pipes all over again, lined up against the rUK's forces.  Oh my. She seems to have forgotten that to get an Indyref2 she needs the consent of Westminster. The very people she is now so hugely pissing off. I used to think she was clever, now i am not so sure to be honest.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Id go as far as saying between her and Salmond they're just a pair of English haters who are whipping up the nationalist sentiment and living on it.....and at each opportunity shouting down the Tories or the English as if we were persecuting them

The Faster You Drive...The Slower You Age

(Albert Einstein  14 March 1879 - 18 April 1955)

 

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Agreed. But the reality is the persecution will truly begin when the rUK, a nation of 60m people, lines up against Scotland, a nation of 5.5m, to negotiate Scotland's divorce. I just cannot seeing ending well, if at all.

Then to top it off, what about the 3 EU member stated who have flatly told the Scottish Government that there will be no special deal for Scotland in the EU, no automatic entry, and no special favours. In fact they said they would actively oppose it!

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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what part of UNITED kingdom doesn`t she understand. Fed up with her now,i say give her way,forget a referendum and  let her have her independent scotland

hindsight: the science that is never wrong

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She's grandstanding for the home support. The argument that devolved parliaments must approve the triggering of A50 won't wash with the supreme court although I do not think the SC will overrule the current ruling on the constitution as it would set a dangerous precedent.

As for rUK lining up against Scotland in any divorce proceeding to make it difficult you can say exactly the same about the EU and the UK.

It will be messy.

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I agree with the idiot ^^^  (lol, enjoyed that!)  the big difference i think being that the EU has just as much to lose, if not arguably more (looking at balance of import/export business and cash contribution to the central coffers) than the rUK would arguably have from a departing Scotland.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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1 minute ago, C8RKH said:

I agree with the idiot ^^^  (lol, enjoyed that!)  the big difference i think being that the EU has just as much to lose, if not arguably more (looking at balance of import/export business and cash contribution to the central coffers) than the rUK would arguably have from a departing Scotland.

Maybe but the EU is not one country. So while Germany and France may have a lot to lose the other 25 states have much less and they all need to ratify any new deal. It's going to take a lot of arm twisting.

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I think it may take longer as it is not just about trade. There are lots of little complications such as pension transfer rights etc. that will take time to unravel. In some regards I think the approach you outline may be the best way rather than a long drawn out process ending at essentially the same point. 

We can only watch and see.

And maybe buy some dollars.

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