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6 hours ago, ian29gte said:

It's a bit like us apologising for the British Empire 

Why would we want to do that?  It was a vehicle and product of its time. Do we expect the Romans to apologise for the Roman Empire. The Ottomans for theirs. The Turks for theirs? I mean, when you look at them now you can legitimately go - yuck, hmmmm.  But that is to base them against our values and progress now.  

Yes, lots of bad things done. lots of people got wealthy. Here and abroad. But that was then...

I'd no longer expect anyone to apologise for the two world wars we had than expect anyone to want apologies for the empires etc.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Many European Countries had Empires. France, Holland, Italy, Portugal, Turkey (Ottoman), Even Russia can be considered to have had an Empire. And all of them used them the same way. You don't hear any of them having to apologise for what happened Centuries ago!

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1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

Why would we want to do that?  It was a vehicle and product of its time. Do we expect the Romans to apologise for the Roman Empire. The Ottomans for theirs. The Turks for theirs? I mean, when you look at them now you can legitimately go - yuck, hmmmm.  But that is to base them against our values and progress now.  

Yes, lots of bad things done. lots of people got wealthy. Here and abroad. But that was then...

I'd no longer expect anyone to apologise for the two world wars we had than expect anyone to want apologies for the empires etc.

 

There are some who feel we should keep on apologising.

They can get f*&^ked.

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Margate Exotics.

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The councils were specifically banned from using any monies so raised on building new housing stock. The 50% they did get had to be used on reducing their debts...nothing they could do about it. The cost of building is miniscule compared to the value of the completed property...there's a huge difference between the insurance value, that covers rebuilding the property, and what it would fetch if sold. Had they been able to use the funds to build new properties, then the available housing would have increased....until those renting the new houses took up the "right to buy". The discount available has varied widely over the years, and because of the increase in property values, does not allow the average working joe to buy under the scheme any more. I got in when the going was good, and paid the mortgage off, too.

Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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  • Gold FFM

And over the last 30 years - parties of all colours have just pointed at each other and said "your fault"

tossers the lot of them - we NEED a Donald 

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Agreed ^^^- take the argument to it's logical conclusion. Councils use the 50% to pay down the huge amount of reckless debt they had been building up which has a huge servicing cost.  once paid down, the "free cash" within the council increases as the debt is no longer being serviced.

Use that cash to build houses - for a council houses the cost to build:value ration would have been about 10 - 25% - So 10 - 25% cost to build versus market sales vale. They could have been building 1- 2 houses at that point for each one that had been sold. But they did not choose to do that. instead, they took the free money (from not having to service the debt) and they spent it elsewhere. Councils of all colours failed to invest in the future. They were all culpable.

Single biggest problem with this country is that we do not understand the value of investing for the future. Whether that is homes, infrastructure, education, health. We think in 3 year cycles - government might be in for 5 years but year 1 - blame the previous and say what a mess it all is. Y2-4 do something to show you did something. Y5 do nothing as you do not want to leave a positive legacy for the next lot. So out of every 5 year government term we generally get 3 good years, 2 years wasted. Again, does not matter which party or which colour - blue, red, yellow etc...

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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  • Gold FFM
9 hours ago, oilmagnet477 said:

Simplicity is generally best - we could sweep away masses of bureaucracy but one size fits all approach which would be adopted by doing everything centrally wouldn't work either.

But then were would the legions of senior Public sector managers go to? They would not go to the private sector as they'd need to work. But then paying them to sit in an office doing nothing is no different to paying them to sit at home and do nothing I suppose!

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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I realise I persist in beating my head against a wall...but I would suggest that this article says what I fear better then I can, and will repay reading.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tobias-stone/history-tells-us-what-will-brexit-trump_b_11179774.html

Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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  • Gold FFM

Umm - toss them straight on the scrap heap - let them sort themselves out. They would qualify for zippidy squit as they would have too much in assets and cash that they've leached off the system.

next

It's easy to say trump is a nightmare and a bad thing.

lets face it - what we have had so far - is that great ?

in our country - we have ex service men sleeping rough - while our government pump hundreds of millions into foreign aid. Then prioritise "asylum seekers" over anyone else.

its high time we pulled up the bloody draw bridge and forced the lazy back to work whilst sorting our own country out.

we can all wear rose tinted specs - but ffs - the system absolutely friking stinks

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  • Gold FFM

I read that @molemot and personally, yes, some interesting points, but I do not subscrie to the view that history foretells the future. That's all a bit too groundhog day for me.

He uses the same sort of imagery as trump to be honest - by that, I'm talking style over content. but let's take one point:

"Trump says he will Make America Great Again, when in fact America is currently great, according to pretty well any statistics "

I wonder. What statistics is he referring to?

Is it the ones for murder - I guess it is true to say America is great at that

What about gun crime - yup, great at that too compared to most other places in the world.

Drugs - yup.......   You get the gist.

 

There is so much that is great about America. Great that is if you have money, wealth, privilege and most of all health.  But there is so much in America that is, just like over here, totally fooked up. I stopped reading after that quote, I just thought oh, here we go again. My bad.

I'm not going to defend the indefensible. Some of the things Trump has said are damn right wrong. Totally appalling. However, some of what he says makes a huge amount of sense to me.

He wants to get Americans back to work. if you are an unemployed American in 2017, i can guarantee you the last word you be thinking of was "great"! What is wrong with wanting to protect your home industry. To give jobs to your own people.To give them a sense of purpose and an opportunity to earn and to build wealth and security? Why is that bad?

Oh, i get it, because it is protectionist and prevents trade. So, the fact that if you want to setup your stall in China, you need a "local" partner, and the stuff needs to be made there so Chinese workers have jobs. That's OK then. that's not protectionist as they are not as wealthy as we are so we can afford to pay to make them wealthy whilst our own workers become destitute, lose their jobs, lose their homes, lose their dignity. But hey, it's OK, because we have levelled the playing field!

One of the things that is killing our planet is the movement of goods around the world. Vast container ships, with 20,000, 25,000, 30,000 or more containers continually moving stuff around the globe. Damn, these things are so big they do not even notice when a 100 containers fall off mid journey in the middle of the ocean!

Pure and total waste of resources etc.So make more of what you need in your own country with your own workers. it's better for the planet and will probably stop the wasteful throw away society we have become as things will be more expensive so we will look after then better and make them last. a novel concept I learnt from my grandparents and parents. If you need something, buy the best you can. if you look after it, you'll not need to buy another one.Cheaper in the long run.

I think his messages are largely sound. they resonate with me. i don't like "what" he says, or "how" he says it. But I get it the simple message behind the rhetoric. Make America Great Again is not really about projecting American power. We had Bush, Bush, Clinton, Obama to do that and where did it get the world really? Is it really a safer place? Pah!

Trump's message resonates not with the people who have in the US - regardless of colour or sex or race or religion. It resonates with the people who DO NOT HAVE in America regardless of colour, race, sex, or religion etc.  The millions of Americans who struggle day to day to live and clothe, feed and nurture their families..

Both in the US and over her, it seems that the ordinary people are speaking, and the Surbiton/Hamptons middle class tree huggers with their designer teas etc. are the ones that are whinging that the people "below" them have dared to have their say.

Around me,the ones who are screaming the most about Brexit are the professional middle classes who are worried about whether they will still get to their ski lodges in Chamonix post brexit. In the US, it's probably the ones wondering about their lodges in Colorado or their condo's in Florida.

If we tske awaythe emotion of "how" Trumpo says it, and strip back to the core message. i think that's why it is resonating with those that support him. many who oppose him do not want to hesr the message, so they focus on "how" he says it, not "what" he is really saying.

Just my view. However, I do value debate and like the fact that even on here, many of us have so many different views and are happy to share them. long may it continue.

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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48 minutes ago, molemot said:

I realise I persist in beating my head against a wall...but I would suggest that this article says what I fear better then I can, and will repay reading.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tobias-stone/history-tells-us-what-will-brexit-trump_b_11179774.html

https://medium.com/@zacha/history-is-about-the-past-thats-kind-of-the-point-d89e0fd9b995#.99j1egl7r

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hindsight: the science that is never wrong

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2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

But then were would the legions of senior Public sector managers go to? They would not go to the private sector as they'd need to work. But then paying them to sit in an office doing nothing is no different to paying them to sit at home and do nothing I suppose!

If we sack them all, their benefits would cost considerably less than net cost of salaries and they stop accruing gold plated pensions. Time for some belt tightening Sir Humphrey, wouldn't you say lol

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Is the price for that bit in Yen or £?

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Following another thread on here talking about providing Lotus Storage for projects, I've been looking into it in more detail.

There's a cracking site just up the road from me that would not only provide plenty of storage but also has big workshops and a large pit.

I would be seriously tempted but the site is £300k (an acre overall), add to that £5-10k per annum business rates and insurance, electric, repairs etc and the whole thing falls flat which is a real bugger.

I'm currently out of work, not claiming benefits and really keen to do something that allows me flexibility and also the opportunity to help like minded folk.

why the fk do the Council think they have first call of £500-£1000/month before I even make a living?

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Is the price for that bit in Yen or £?

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13 hours ago, C8RKH said:

But then were would the legions of senior Public sector managers go to? They would not go to the private sector as they'd need to work. But then paying them to sit in an office doing nothing is no different to paying them to sit at home and do nothing I suppose!

It's not only about paying them for doing nothing, the cost to councils to maintain those gold plated public pensions must be enormous. I'd love to see what % the total employee benefit cost represents on the annual council tax statement .

Time to come in to line with the private sector !

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  • Gold FFM

They really need to cap salaries and pensions for the public sector. It's an utter joke just how much money is showered on these utterly incompetent muppets 

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I agree with the comments above, but just wanted to also say I was very pointed in my jab at Public Sector Managers.

There are a lot of Public Sector workers who do work hard, are paid a pittance, and don't have a generous pension. However, they are largely forgotten about as we do have too many Public Sector Managers who are ineffective at best, totally useless at worse, and who do take the piss when it comes to sick days, pensions, benefits, and lots of other things. I just don't like paying to these Public Sector Managers.  Quite happy to pay (and would pay more) for the effective Public Sector Workers who actually do work hard and care.

However, it's not just local authorities. Why is it OK for someone to join the police/fire service and then around 33 years later retire with a generous lump sum and a gilt edged pension at 55 when the rest of us are expected to work till we are 68/69. Presumably we need to work those extra 14 years to pay for the generous lump sums and pensions of those police/fire service people?  Sits back and waits for the usual retort - you can't expect a 65 year old to climb a ladder with a hose or chase a robber down the street comment....   ;)

 

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Whilst out for dinner in a local pub on Wednesday, the adjacent table was occupied dy a severely handicapped guy and his three care workers.

The carers having apologised for the noises coming from their patient explained that a part of their job was to take James out for lunch and dinner every day, and although he lived at home with his mum in an purpose built annex  on the side of her house, she didn't get involved with caring of her son. James therefore needed constant care and, as his condition made him fit on a regular basis, he needed the help of 3 carers during the day and 2 at night.

The basic pay for carers is over £10 per hour, the wage bill alone for his care works out £4,200 per week, on top of this, in the car park was a brand new Vauxhall Vivaro van with disabled tail lift, and what annoyed me was, it had tinted windows, nice alloy wheels and chrome sill runner bars, obviously completely unnecessary extras paid for by the social care services.

Is it any wonder that the care services and NHS is in such a state, when the management has such a blatant disregard for the use of its funds.

Yes I felt sorry for James, but his disability was so severe that he was completely oblivious to what was going on. Why was he out for a meal in a fancy restaurant when he was being fed through a tube? I suppose at least his carers enjoyed their steaks at the expense of a young child who is unable to receive life saving cancer treatments due to lack of funds.....

 

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Many workers on the front line do work very hard. And they are the ones who get cut out, whenever there is a squeeze on funds. Central government cuts funding and rather than economise in the town hall they reduce services then blame it on cuts.

Motability: I used to work for a multinational IT firm which had an office on Southwark Bridge Road on the river. We moved out because it became too expensive. We were amazed to see that a few weeks later it had become the HQ of Motability! As this is a Quango, there is no limit on their expenditure and executive pay. I am not sure why an organisation which provides cars for the disabled needs to have a showcase office in the city and pay their chief executive over £1 million.

 

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16 minutes ago, oilmagnet477 said:

 

"she didn't get involved with caring of her son"

Why the fuck not?

That's the problem with a large chunk of so called Society today - it is always someone else's responsibility!!

Does my nut!

 

I would be careful criticising the mother until:

1. you know the true facts, rather than 2nd hand statements (did you know how old she was, did she have problems herself etc...)

2. you have been in the situation yourself - it must be completely sole destroying and at times degrading.

Also do you know the state has paid for everything?

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13 minutes ago, oilmagnet477 said:

"she didn't get involved with caring of her son"

Why the fuck not?

That's the problem with a large chunk of so called Society today - it is always someone else's responsibility!!

Does my nut!

As you can tell,  the situation I was in annoyed me so much that my conversational inquisition of the carers without the intervention of my wife could have got quite embarrassing. It was the carers that mentioned the parent and I wasn't allowed to go into that line of questioning. 

However James I would say was in his mid thirties, and showed no emotion during the short time I spent with him. If you put yourself in the mums shoes, I would imagine that as a child there would have been a bond, which would lesson over time if he'd always been this way.

It's a horrible thing to say, but in this paticular case, I would think that the suffering he goes through outweighs the benefit of sustaining his life. So would a kinder thing to do be a lethal injection.....shit I'm in dodgy territory now!

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While we're in soap-box mode, I'd like to know what difference it would make to the travelling public if GTR Southern was re-nationalised, as I seem to remember strikes being far worse in the nationalised industries.

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Margate Exotics.

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Whilst I appreciate that looking after someone 24/7 is a massive responsibility, I do have a bit of experience. We have just built an annex for my elderly and infirm MIL who doesn't need 24/7 care but since she has been here over the last 12 months has ended up on the floor in various states of undress and toiletry emergency (I'll spare you the details).

She has to go to hospital every week and can't really be left alone for long periods - essentially I have become the default carer as my wife works FT in a hospital and has zero flexibility. So, I am currently unable to work and am not claiming benefits - if she were in a care home the costs would be enormous. I guess we are lucky enough to be able to shoulder the responsibility.

Each individual's experience is unique but in general there are many many people in this country where the idea of family support (for whatever reason) has broken down completely.

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Is the price for that bit in Yen or £?

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  • Gold FFM
15 minutes ago, Steve V8 said:

As you can tell,  the situation I was in annoyed me so much that my conversational inquisition of the carers without the intervention of my wife could have got quite embarrassing. It was the carers that mentioned the parent and I wasn't allowed to go into that line of questioning. 

However James I would say was in his mid thirties, and showed no emotion during the short time I spent with him. If you put yourself in the mums shoes, I would imagine that as a child there would have been a bond, which would lesson over time if he'd always been this way.

It's a horrible thing to say, but in this paticular case, I would think that the suffering he goes through outweighs the benefit of sustaining his life. So would a kinder thing to do be a lethal injection.....shit I'm in dodgy territory now!

I often show no emotion and I'm now in my early fourties :lol:

however when working on an esprit - I can often go into a full on fit - this is interjected with moments of spitting, pissing and foul horrible language.

I have made it expressly clear to my family - that if I ever end up in a state like the above - I would like to be smothered to death. What a bloody waste - there but for the grace of god go I !!

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