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Brexit


Barrykearley

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The Countries who have so much to lose from the EU (those that get billions more than they put in, of which we aren't one) are getting more and more desperate.

Spain has now said it will "Take back" Gibraltar should the UK leave the EU......so they basically want to invade it?!?!?!?!

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/650355/Brexit-threat-Spain-will-control-Gibralter-soon-as-Britain-leaves-EU

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I for one will be wanting to opt out of the EU.   It is dead in the water and has been for years,  The one man who is the most concerened is Mr Cameron 

as he wants to stay in because otherwise he will actually have to work for a living instead of just doing everything the EU says.

 

All the goverment does is scare monger, we can still have the trading rights without been in the EU..   The EU let too many poor countries join that should of had no

place in the EU, for gods sake some of these countries are still going round on horses and carts !   And with the likes of the Turkish looking into joining in the future...............    

 It is our only chance to cut the cord and it needs doing now.  We have more to loose staying in and the other states in the EU know it, thats why they want us to remain

 in the EU.  

 The general public are more worried about what we export ?  the fact is we buy more in than we export. ! 

 

 We should be spending our taxes on looking after our old people and building a better future for our children not giving money away to the EU.   

 For those of you who think the EU is good and our goverment helps us,  Just ask yourself this, as we are in the EU, we are all supposed to follow the same

 laws but tell me this why is that in other EU states men retire at 60 !  and yet our age is 67, now 71 and now talk of 78. ?  WTF. 

 How is this fair...................... 

 Will be intresting to see the final vote though :)

 

 

 

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49 minutes ago, Kimbers said:

The Countries who have so much to lose from the EU (those that get billions more than they put in, of which we aren't one) are getting more and more desperate.

Spain has now said it will "Take back" Gibraltar should the UK leave the EU......so they basically want to invade it?!?!?!?!

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/650355/Brexit-threat-Spain-will-control-Gibralter-soon-as-Britain-leaves-EU

Well at least Spain is being consistent, they were similarly intransigent / arrogant / and stupid with Scotland during the indyref. I think it is time Cameron grew some and responded with a motion to the EU to start accession talks with Catalonia....   This is all getting rather silly.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Being a frequent traveler in East europe for the last 23 years, I can just say, that it is not the wish of the general public, to have been joining the ec, it is solely the interest of the political and economical establishment, who thrive on the membership. Before say Romania became member, they had a Little Money and managed, despite their former dictator and his evil wife Elena, sucking every single bit of ressource and life out of the land and the population. After the 89' uprise in which a few thousands were killed with machine guns, they won freedom.  But what happened? All the banks and international Companies infested the country with their sick advertising, products and misbehaviour and misconduct, in reality setting the country under an enormous dept, they cannot pay, while "buying" the natural ressources off the land for petty Money. And I mean petty Money. No Wonder they have changed their view on the West from being very curious and positive, to more like, nah, I whink we want to stay alone and manage ourselves. Don't make the mistake in thinking, that the West incl. britain, is all good. Because in every country is a hoarde of lawmakers, politicians and Companies, who make a collective system of enforcement that deprive the population here in Denmark, the UK, Greece, Romania and all the other countries, of their own land and it possibilities. Being in a cart with a skinny horse in front, or not.

Honestly, In reality we, the population, are dead sick and tired of how the establishment are misusing democracy and economical powers, to thrive only for themselves. UK and all the others. The same happens all over the World, for that matter. Voting out of the ec, makes them dead scared, because it installs a small cavity in their bulletproof system of Laws and abilty of acting behind the scenes, in reality not being responsible to any nation as they are hiding behing a thick velvet of intricate Company Constructions and boards. This Means, that for the first time in a long time, in effect since wwII, the people in power, I mean real power, not someone on election, cannot keep on pressing the lemon insensebly. I seroiusly doubt if in reality it would make any real difference, but still. I don't think one should take the position and say "them and us"; in reality most people amongst the general population in nations, wants the same: a happy long prosperous life. Some with a  religious aspect in front. So be it. But it's a bit odd in my view, to take a Whole nation or even a whole part of European continent captive in saying, that they are running around as stone age people, when in fact we, also in Denmark, have done so and so much to deprive them from their own nation and possibilities, for example during earlier times. Fortunately that's mostly stopped by now. Instead, I think it's more interesting to investigate for example who were bombed by the alied forced during the wwII and what exactly were hit. Like: did some of the big german companies go free? Did some of the scientists deeply involved in the nazi regime go free to other parts of the World? Hmm... I think that a bit of monetary interest went into the equation. A bit of multinational interest as well. A bit of acting behind the curtain.

I cannot retire at age 60. For me, it's 69 and that number is regulated to be higher the younger you are. I fully agree, that some systems are highly unfair, as people are forced to do this and that, in contrast to others who don't have to. Well, I can retire at age 60, but it's fully at my own exppense, not getting a dime till' I'm 69. And by the way, the way the ec and it's member countries are spending Money, there won't be many pence to spend, when I hopefully reach pension. So we have to save up ourselves. Note: 0% interet rate in banks. No public help if you have saved up as much as two.pence, during 50 years or working. But paying 50% in tak off that saving: well, hell yeah! Let's steal the peoples ressources! I pay effectively around 79% in tax in my country. I called them up to say I want out, as any membership in a Club is voluntary, but they refused and told me, that I am a lifetime member. "Sorry sir, you cannot refuse, we have to rip you off".

Instead, I think we as ordinary people should lay the small differences aside (and thanks for that, and not all being straightened out cuecumbers in the name of socalled ec when in fact it is not the european community; well not the population anyway) and should continue to make it visible and clear to the politicians, and thereby their bosses, the multinational Companies and Little intricate society of "brothers", that we are aware of what's going on, and we don't like it. I mean, it's hardly because of a local pesant or university professor living their local life somewhere Deep in Eastern europe or Greece working 10 hours a day till he drops dead at the age of 78, that we have so many problems in Denmark or UK or... There are other reasons behind. The power behind the EC being one of them. Get out, please, you have a Unique chance, and we would take it too, if we could.

Your best friends in europe ;)

Jacques.

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Nobody does it better - than Lotus ;)

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I find it strange that the Labour party is supporting staying in. The EU mantra seems to be the opposite of that preached by the Left in many ways.

Tony Benn had it right about the EU all those years ago. Although I disagreed with him on pretty much everything else his opposition to the EU made sense.

The current Labour party seems to be completely different, they are more entrenched with the establishment than the Tories in some ways. Corbyn seems to think he can reform the EU. Not a chance of course. If we can get no reform when threatening to leave do we really have any chance of reform after deciding to stay in? Once the referendum is over, make no mistake, it will be open season, they can pretty much do what they like with us.

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I would strongly suggest the leaders in the ec, to read the old Greek tradigy "Antigone". Then think carefully about it's meaning, as the now so critisized Greece did, and then realise what thay are doing.

Jacques.

Nobody does it better - than Lotus ;)

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  • 2 weeks later...

The "Worlds happiest countries" has been published and this is based on gross domestic product (a nation's output of goods and services) per capita, social support, healthy-life expectancy, personal freedom, charitable giving and perceived corruption.

Strangely enough all are European countries but again, strangely enough 3 of the top 4 are non EU members! Denmark is top (and they want to come out of the EU) then Iceland, Switzerland and Norway! How wierd is that?

Not at all when you think that it is based on things such as Social Support, Personal Freedom and Corruption all of which the EU has a massive influence on.

 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35824033

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
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I wonder where we will be in a few years given.

 

The snoopers charter being forced through degrading your personal freedom

All the recent expenses and banking scandals

The cutting of support for the disabled.

 

Of course the above is all the fault of the EU.

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9 minutes ago, Bibs said:

Fantastic news, will like to see how Mr Cameron will explain this as he tries to sell the stop in the EU to the UK public. ! 

 

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bye bye EU.....hello EEC......not sure what currency they'll all run with.....

the mark I would have thought........

The Faster You Drive...The Slower You Age

(Albert Einstein  14 March 1879 - 18 April 1955)

 

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Possibly not the right topic but I have unashamedly copied this from a ScottishElises post as I thought it brilliantly explains why our tax system is so unfair. Maybe someone clever could do a similar simple example to explain how the EU works?

 

Suppose that, every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100. 
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this... 


The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing 
The fifth would pay £1 
The sixth would pay £3 
The seventh would pay £7 
The eighth would pay £12 
The ninth would pay £18 
The tenth man (the richest) would pay £59 
So, that's what they decided to do. 
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement; until one day the owner threw them a problem. 
"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by £20." Drinks for the ten now cost just £80. 
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. 
So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. 
But what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? 
They realised that £20 divided by six is £3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. 
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. 


And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings) 
The sixth now paid £2 instead of £3 (33% savings) 
The seventh now pay £5 instead of £7 (28% savings) 
The eighth now paid £9 instead of £12 (25% savings) 
The ninth now paid £14 instead of £18 (22% savings) 
The tenth now paid £49 instead of £59 (16% savings) 
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. 
"I only got a pound out of the £20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "But he got £10!" 
"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved £1 as well. 
It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!" "That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back when I got only £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!" 
"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!" 
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. 
The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they 
discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill! 
And that is how our tax system works.

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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As I said Dan, I can't claim any credit for it, but yes, it does to me perfectly explain the system. I don't mind paying tax, but this constant sniping at upper tax earners when we already pay so much really does gall me. Where is the incentive for me to try any more.  Couple that to the fact I live in Scotland, and the SNP's new approach of making me work harder, so they can take more of my cash in taxes, to pay for their ever increasing "social benefit" schemes.  Actually spent the morning on Zoopla looking at houses for sale in England as can only see this getting worse up here and don't see why I should earn less than my colleagues in England just because I live a couple of hundred miles further more north.

Getting back on the EU, I think the recent tragic events in Belgium are actually going to really influence the Brexit vote as it is playing in to the hands of the vote leave group.  My heart still says we should leave and go it alone, with a Eurozone deal that gives us access to the common market and trade agreements in return for probably a 40-50% cut in our fees as they really need us - access to our market and access to our cash.

My head says that with all this global instability, being part of a wider group, a larger organisation, will provide more stability. But then, my heart kicks in again, and says, what's the use of a life vest with a leak when I'm floating away from the cruise ship...  Humph, this is a tough one....

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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My folks are more concerned the vote will be rigged, I just do not trust the goverment, i am always open to both sides or the story but most people i talk to now want out the EU. If you lie and cheat your country out money like those toads in the claim scandal claiming for morgages when they had been payed off etc, who should be sitting in jail right now.  How can we trust these ladder climbing, back stabbing, thieving F"""""S to make sure the vote does not get rigged :ermm:

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A

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The one thing I do have "trust" in Dan is that in the UK our votes are not rigged and we can trust the outcome. Our sense of fair play, our processes and our governance are I believe some of the best in the world and is what sets us apart from the rest of the world. But then I am biased.

It doesn't mean that I trust the Government to run a clean race, to not rig the fight with propaganda and miss information etc...

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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51 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

The one thing I do have "trust" in Dan is that in the UK our votes are not rigged and we can trust the outcome. Our sense of fair play, our processes and our governance are I believe some of the best in the world and is what sets us apart from the rest of the world. But then I am biased.

It doesn't mean that I trust the Government to run a clean race, to not rig the fight with propaganda and miss information etc...

Votes are often rigged by certain sectors of the community using postal voting. But this might well be a vote in which this does not happen as there is no vested interest involved on their part.

I am looking forward to it. If the polls show a possibility of coming out near the time I wonder if the same as in the Scottish poll will happen, ie bribes on the part of the EU in the form of additional reforms. 

The polls are likely to be wildly out though. I would imagine a much greater poll attendance rate amongst brexit supporters than remainers. The best outcome of all would be for the polls to show a clear majority to stay in, then actually vote out, and I reckon thats a very likely outcome.

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I very much think what will happen is, that as we look likely to vote to leave through polls, I think a few things will happen that will be very interesting to watch:

1. Poland and several other eastern European countries will raise their rhetoric with the view to hardening the view within the EU around no concessions to the UK. They are desperate for us to stay as they want our EU contributions and they want their citizens working here to continue to send money back home and they want their citizens to be able to freely come here to work. These "economic" interests are huge and vital for them and they will fight tooth and nail to keep them so the focus will be on how much damage leaving the EU will do to the UK and how trade etc and jobs in the UK will suffer. I think the "nats" up here would call that Project Fear.

2. Germany, and possibly France too, will see that the UK is veering to Brexit and they absolutely do not want that to happen so they will push for "concessions" to the UK to convince us to stay. They need our financial contribution to keep the EU alive, but also, Germany especially, needs access to our market for their manufactured products.

So we will end up with a divided EU - 50% wanting to bully us to stay, and 50% wanting to cajole us to stay. These two factions within the EU will then start to attack each other and it will all get very very nasty, dirty, and uncomfortable. But then, as I said with the Scottish Indyref, a divorce is very very rarely, truly, amicable and as a result this will all get totally screwed up.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Smacked the nail nicely on the head @C8RKH - that is exactly the issue. 

We need to look after our own people. The vulnerable etc. We also need to limit the incoming migrant workers to stop money exiting our economy - and also to help our politicians force our workshy citizens to get out of bed and do a days graft!!

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Only here once

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3 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

Smacked the nail nicely on the head @C8RKH - that is exactly the issue. 

We need to look after our own people. The vulnerable etc. We also need to limit the incoming migrant workers to stop money exiting our economy - and also to help our politicians force our workshy citizens to get out of bed and do a days graft!!

The interesting thing is though that we also need the incoming migrant workers, as they tend to be younger too, to look after our old people, to do many of the lower paid caring jobs, and to rebalance the demographic by bringing the age curve back to the left. Interestingly, this is something that has positively helped England, but due to low levels of incoming migration, has really hampered Scotland where the aging demographic here is really, really scary, especially when you add in the free everything approach to social care (eye tests, prescriptions, bus passes, personal care etc.). For this reason, even if we vote for Brexit I can see a "work permit" style approach being implemented that will still result in a large number of migrant workers coming here, but then, we will be able to decide for ourselves, rather than be told by Brussels, what benefits we can bestow on them and when. That is a crucial difference.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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We have the very same situation here in Denmark. Plus that some totally lunatic politicians voted for a law that will give Work to muslim "refugees" before Danish Citizens... THe World have come to an end...

I think the usual explanation about the need for more foreigners to come Work here, is like peeing in the pants, as it will help on a short term, But once these gets older, have kids, needs schools, doctors, dentists, becom old themselves, it'll get even worse. No, I say take the hit now, and have lesser problems in the future.

Jacques.

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Nobody does it better - than Lotus ;)

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