Brexit

[geartox 592]

what is crazy for me, from France (self-censored regarding my comments for french politicians - just would like to say : SORRY !), what is happening in UK is exactly the same thing that is happening everywhere in Europe. You can say no, you can say yes... whatever... there is plan, follow it and shut up. Liberty ? Democracy ? it seems that we have a huge problem of vocabulary and word definition. Welcome to 1984. Hope that YOU will find the keys for changing something, because here, we don't.

 

 

[pete 1,812]

is typical of modern life where those in public life seem to think they don`t need to do what the people want them to do ,not just politicians but the police, local councillors and even the French president.

[Buddsy 1,626]

@geartoxIs just like the vid I posted in December with Trumps old advisor Steve Bannon who says "they wont let you go" & "They cant let you succeed"

He knew what the game was even though Mrs May cant.

 

1 minute ago, pete said:

is typical of modern life where those in public life seem to think they don`t need to do what the people want them to do 

I think that is a very true thing.

In Norwich the council pushed through a road nobody wanted.

Now they are squeezing cars from the city by increasing parking charges and any other means they can, closing roads etc.

Who asked them to do this? I didnt!They are just following their own agendas in my opinion. 

[PhilW 400]

And then they wonder why the high streets are struggling.  I made this point before but:

Park and rides are supposed to encourage people to leave their cars outside of town and get the bus in.  On my biennial visit to Norwich with my wife to buy some clothes we have used in the past the park and ride at the top of the A140.  Cost was per car.

Now the bellends charge per person.  It is now cheaper to park in town if there are 2 or 3 of you, or it was last time I went which admittedly was a while ago now.  You can not believe that the whole point of park and rides is being undermined because we are back to the big problem in the UK.........greed.  The answer now, probably, by the dicks in charge will be to tax/increase rent for NCP or whoever owns them so they have no choice but to increase their prices.  To be honest I dont know as I rarely go but I bet it will happen if it hasnt already.  

What I do know is when their greed makes parking my car for a few hours a piss take I will resort to the internet.  Not the ideal for me but If they want to rip me off before i get to a shop to spend my wages in their town they will need to find another way.   

[PAR 268]

Coming to your town soon, the  car dealership with no parking!  

Edited April 1, 2019 by PAR

[Colin P 646]

7 hours ago, PAR said:

Coming to your town soon, the  car dealership with no parking!  

Have you ever tried to park at a car dealership?  If there is a space they park one of their stock cars in it. Customers parking seems unimportant.

11 hours ago, PhilW said:

What I do know is when their greed makes parking my car for a few hours a piss take I will resort to the internet.  Not the ideal for me but If they want to rip me off before i get to a shop to spend my wages in their town they will need to find another way.   

It's what I have been saying for some time. Move all the chain stores out of town into the shopping centres, make the high streets affordable and occupied as "boutique" type shops/local traders and then make them easy and free to park in for an hour.

There is probably also a piece about "right sizing" some of them. better 50 occupied shops out of 50 than 60 occupied shops out of 150 interspersed with vacant units.

[LotusLeftLotusRight 1,252]

Coincidentally I had experience of both these issues at the weekend. Firstly the car dealership: yes I was lucky to find a space to park, but only because I arrived at "off-peak" times with barely any customers, otherwise it's pretty hopeless. It also annoys me that dealerships are happy to park up vehicles all along the adjacent public highway, rather than bother to find space on their own property. It's not against the law, but it's surely taking the pi$$.

Secondly Park & Ride. I had my first ever experience of this on Saturday at Cambridge and I have to say it was very good. Convenient locatipon, ample parking and frequent buses. We paid 6 quid all day for a family of 4. To park in a city centre multi-storey would have been well over 20 quid. No wonder the P&R was so busy!

Anyway, what's any of this got to do with Brexit! 

[PAR 268]

This forum is now focused on the proper more important debate, the Prexit (park and ride exit.)

[Kimbers 1,795]

Love Prexit! How am I meant to do my christmas shopping without a car? bus driver won't let me store 20 bags in the bus and wait while I go back and do my Christmas food shopping then bring another 20 bags back! Stupid stupid system.

[100th_Idiot 342]

3 hours ago, Kimbers said:

Love Prexit! How am I meant to do my christmas shopping without a car? bus driver won't let me store 20 bags in the bus and wait while I go back and do my Christmas food shopping then bring another 20 bags back! Stupid stupid system.

Make 40 separate trips. Simple.

[USAndretti42 308]

For the purpose of full disclosure, I voted remain but, it seems to me, that the main reasons for voting leave were to a) improve control of immigration, b) move away from accepting laws made in the EU, c) to stop having to send loads of money to Europe, and d) moving out of the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice.  The first 3 of these set Theresa May's red lines for negotiation.  Staying in the single market or custioms union does not address those 3 issues.  If you're going to have to accept freedom of movement, obeying European law and contribute to the cost, then you may as well stay in the EU and have a saw in how it's run.

Corbyn, in my view, has been peddling a false dream in which the UK gets a special deal where we get the benefits of membership without the negatives that many leavers felt.  However, up to now, Brexit has been the Conservative's problem with Labour being difficult to try to force a general election that they could win.  May's latest ploy to invite Corbyn to the negotiations is, in my view, quite smart as it makes it Labour's problem as well.  They now have to firm up their position instead of waffling and wobbling.  I do believe she has been trying hard to deliver Brexit but she's made a hash of it.  Now, Labour can't say no to everything that's proposed as they are being involved in the plans.  Hopefully it will break the deadlock.

[CHANGES 1,191]

 

12 hours ago, USAndretti42 said:

They now have to firm up their position instead of waffling and wobbling.  I do believe she has been trying hard to deliver Brexit but she's made a hash of it.  Now, Labour can't say no to everything that's proposed as they are being involved in the plans.  Hopefully it will break the deadlock.

Break the deadlock or manipulate the result in a different way but with the same un-democratic outcome.  

 

[Andyww 1,278]

Fact is, May should have involved Corbyn from the start, 2 years ago, for the simple reason that all MPs including Labour have a vote in the house, so if they are not involved they will simply vote against.

Also that would have exposed Labours huge divisions on the EU, namely leader and a few of his mates having the opposite view to everyone else. Also giving her someone else to blame if/when it all goes pear-shaped. She has instead gifted Labour the ability label it as a "Tory Brexit". 

All of this seems to have dawned on her 2 years late. She seems to not be quite all there and some advisers not either. Maybe the same ones who advised her to hold the last election.

[Neal H 879]

The only thing parliament seems able to agree on, is that they won't agree to anything that may lead to an exit from the EU under any circumstances (good deal, bad deal, no deal, any deal).

A 2nd Referendum is unfortunately the only route forward at this point, and make the question so simple that even an MP will struggle to mis-interpret it - Leave the EU with no deal or Remain in the EU. Both of those outcomes are far better options than anything that parliament will end up concocting and they have proved beyond doubt that they are incapable of negotiating (or even agreeing amongst themselves) any 'Leave with a deal' option so that's irrelvant at this point.

When it's done (regardless of the result), call a General Election so that the electorate have the opportunity to be rid of the lot of them!

[silverfrost 1,387]

Sadly nothing to do with deal or no deal, money or anything else like that i am afraid,  The men behind closed doors operating the EU security  cant split assets  that they currently share.  That is the problem imo.   

[CHANGES 1,191]

4 minutes ago, Neal H said:

A 2nd Referendum is unfortunately the only route forward at this point, and make the question so simple that even an MP will struggle to mis-interpret it - Leave the EU with no deal or Remain in the EU.

Not sure a second referendum would actually be legal without instigating the result of the first.  If they got around the legality I still believe it would be unconstitutional and not enforceable regardless of the result..  I say this based on the premise of the rejection of the first referendum..     

When suggesting a second referendum you must ask the question WHY.!!  The answer is because the politicians can not agree on how to administer the first...   On that basis how can you expect them to administer the second..   Or you could say  the answer is because the bulk of  politicians did not like the result of the first , so they will keep asking for a vote till they get the answer they want ..  Now that is undemocratic..

What we actually have is an unholy mess based on the democratic peoples vote result not being what the bulk of politicians wanted..    The Politicians should be responding to the peoples vote regardless, They are there to serve the people..  if the EU is playing awkward and divisive and a suitable negotiated settlement not obtainable , then leave with no deal is the only option..   This is not the ideal solution but it fulfills the obligation of the politician based on the democratic vote..     

Anything short of leaving the EU without being tied to constraints will be dictatorship by proxy..   

[C8RKH 6,265]

The Guardian: The value of the customs union to the UK is overrated.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/04/customs-union-soft-brexit-trade-goods

[Bibs 11,179]

It looks like it's all going really well in Parliament today!

[Sparky 2,841]

I've kept out of this, as I find commenting on it all an unreasonable waste of my time.  I didn't even vote in the referendum.  In fact, I have never voted, as I believe the entire democratic system in this country is irretrievably broken and, indeed, corrupt.  Seems I'm correct in that assumption.  However, I will break my duck and vote in the next general election, as I want every single one of these perfidious, self-serving scum gone.

[LotusLeftLotusRight 1,252]

Trouble is a General Election will just replace this bunch of self-serving idiots, with another bunch of self-serving idiots. We can't vote them all out. Whatever happens you'll still end up with yet another Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem or provincial Party MP. Depressing.

[Barrykearley 6,867]

If we were to have a general election - then do not be surprised if there’s a massive upset and a raft of brexit, UKIP and independents returned.

labour and Tory  will get a pasting

[USAndretti42 308]

7 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Trouble is a General Election will just replace this bunch of self-serving idiots, with another bunch of self-serving idiots. We can't vote them all out. Whatever happens you'll still end up with yet another Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem or provincial Party MP. Depressing.

I don't know about voting them out as that means voting for your MP's opposite party's candidate who may be just as bad but hasn't demonstrated that yet.

[Barrykearley 6,867]

Extension of one year maybe on the cards.

hope we will take part in the EU elections - that should aid focussing these clowns

[Kimbers 1,795]

EU elections. Watch UKIP get a landslide. That'll make them think again about another referendum or "Peoples Vote" (though which people they are talking about I don't know as I sdon't support it and I am a person!).

19 hours ago, Sparky said:

I've kept out of this, as I find commenting on it all an unreasonable waste of my time.  I didn't even vote in the referendum.  In fact, I have never voted, as I believe the entire democratic system in this country is irretrievably broken and, indeed, corrupt.  Seems I'm correct in that assumption.  However, I will break my duck and vote in the next general election, as I want every single one of these perfidious, self-serving scum gone.

Well said Sparko. I totally agree and I have vowed to only vote non-main parties in future. No more Tory, Labour or Lib Dems. It's UKIP, Brexit Party or independent for me in future.

[LotusLeftLotusRight 1,252]

Yes be interesting to see how Euro elections pan out. Historically there's always been a low turnout. A lot of regular Conservative supporters will refuse to vote. Labour is also split. Many Brexiteers will lean towards UKIP in protest. Many Remainers will lean towards Lib Dems and the provincial Parties. The majority will probably not vote at all. In which case both the Conservative and the Labour candidates will suffer. Having said all that, these new MEPs could all be out of a job again within a month!