Brexit

[Chillidoggy 4,380]

2 hours ago, PhilW said:

This bell end Mr Ball who has crowd funded this action  has stated “Democracy demands responsibility and honest leadership from those in public office”. Can i suggest that Mr Ball serves a summons on the other 649 MP’s, as based on his statement  they should all be in the dock!!!

 

 

Rumours are circulating that Mr. Ball spent more then £50,000 of the £430,000 crowd-funded money on himself, including £6,000  on a London flat near Canary Wharf, loaning himself £1,000, spending £120 on professional head shots, £504 on his personal mobile phone, £333 on self-defence classes, and £120 on branded cup cakes.

Seems to me that the bloke has shown he has all the necessary attributes to be an MP.

[Kimbers 1,831]

Funny. BBC aren't showing any of this on their news pages. Wonder why that is? Prob the same reason they made the article look like he had been impeached legally by the Police instead of Civilly by Crowdfunding.

[oilmagnet477 747]

So why is Boris being summonsed?

Is he supposed to have lied during the Leave campaign?

The famous battle bus quoted:

My legitimate question is: Do/did we send the EU £350m per week (It makes no mention as to whether this is net or gross...)

"Let's fund our NHS instead" is a statement of intent at best, or simply a statement as an alternative to what might happen to the cash.

Given that we haven't left (ie enacted the will of the people), how is this statement misleading? If we had left and £350m hadn't materialised for the NHS (or any other domestic spending), then they might have a point but at this juncture there is no case to answer.

[C8RKH 6,397]

Some facts from the Office of National Statistics:  

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/articles/theukcontributiontotheeubudget/2017-10-31

 

In 2016, the UK’s gross contribution to the EU amounted to £18.9 billion. Divide that by 52 weeks and you get £360m per week.  However, this is the GROSS figure (however, even as the gross figure it is in fact CORRECT!)

In 2016 we got a rebate of £5bn, so the nett amount we sent to the EU was £13.9bn, so about £267m per week.

Taking in to account EU funding of projects/funding back in to the UK you get a nett (of rebate and funding removed) of £8.1bn per year to the EU, or £156m per week.

Based on these official figures I think the case is going to be thrown out as Boris can argue he quoted the Gross figure and he would be correct as per the independent ONS figures.

It is just yet another smear campaign to paint the Brexit supporters as liars and untrustworthy to justify setting aside the referendum result.  All it is doing to me is building a storm of bad feeling towards those who want to remain - I know they are not all bad people but......

 

 

[Barrykearley 6,967]

Yup - nothing wrong with the statement.

needs to be read in context of course.

these fools would go to Tesco and argue for their Free Range Eggs to be Free of charge

[pete 1,867]

8 hours ago, PhilW said:

This bell end Mr Ball who has crowd funded this action  has stated “Democracy demands responsibility and honest leadership from those in public office”. Can i suggest that Mr Ball serves a summons on the other 649 MP’s, as based on his statement  they should all be in the dock!!!

 

And you can add Mark Carney to that list. As the governor of the bank of england all he has done is forecast doom and gloom ,none of which has happened.

[Andyww 1,289]

If you expand the figure to include all money which the UK loses through EU membership you can add on:

All corporation tax revenue from Ebay, Paypal and several other US multinationals. (goes to Luxembourg).

All corporation tax from Apple's UK operations and all VAT revenue from all of Apple's online downloadable sales.

All VAT lost owing to missing trader fraud, which the UK suffers from more than any other EU member.

[C8RKH 6,397]

@Andyww I just thought I'd keep it simple so easy to verify and understand.

[ChrisJ 1,488]

Interesting article

https://news.sky.com/story/norton-motorbike-boss-brexit-has-kicked-us-up-the-backside-11662637

 

[C8RKH 6,397]

Really interesting read. Ho hype. No BS. No sensationalism. Just a guy running his business and accepting that he could do better with a little effort. Thanks or sharing @ChrisJ though I fear it is all too late as the Reaminers campaign and obfuscation has secured a scenario where the "old" status quo will remain and we will find ourselves slowly strangled within the EU for ever more. So much for democracy and the will of the people being actioned.

[Barrykearley 6,967]

Ahh nice to see someone looking forward and outward rather than backwards and inwards 

[ChrisJ 1,488]

 

[CHANGES 1,220]

I did not notice any news headlines when the high court overturned the action against Boris ..  It would be interesting how many people still think Boris is facing charges in court. 

[Chillidoggy 4,380]

Surprisingly, the BBC reported the case had been thrown out a couple of days ago, they didn't exactly trumpet about it, though. Ball now says he's broke, having pissed all the money away on his lawyers. A bit rich, seeing as he crowd-funded the action in the first place.

[C8RKH 6,397]

6 minutes ago, Chillidoggy said:

Ball now says he's broke

I'm glad for him. Serves him right for being such an idiot in the first place and yes, not sure how he can be broke when it was all other peoples money I thought.

I see Harmann and others have come clean that they have a cross party MP group to stall Brexit - it seems our politicians are so thick and stupid and self censored that the last 3 years fiasco has just washed by them. Incredible really how these MPs and the Speaker of the House are subverted the will of the people's vote which was called a referendum!

[CHANGES 1,220]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

I'm glad for him. Serves him right for being such an idiot in the first place and yes, not sure how he can be broke when it was all other peoples money I thought.

I see Harmann and others have come clean that they have a cross party MP group to stall Brexit - it seems our politicians are so thick and stupid and self censored that the last 3 years fiasco has just washed by them. Incredible really how these MPs and the Speaker of the House are subverted the will of the people's vote which was called a referendum!

It is all very corrupt.  The people voted, the politicians voted, a law was passed, all to leave the EU..  ... All along a self serving group who did not agree with the democratic vote , who also happen to hold positions of influence , have done everything short of a treasonable act to overturn , discredit or sabotage the referendum result with lies , scare stories , false news and innuendo..  ..   And so it goes on...     

The real truth about the whole situation is , we must leave .... that is what the vote said... Whether you voted for or against is irrelevant ... We as a people  have always excepted a parliamentary election result , even when its a minority... You could always argue in these results more individual votes were cast for the party that technically lost the election , which has happened on many occasions..    In this referendum no such argument can be had, it could not have been more straight forward than one person one vote ... IN or OUT..   So why is it be disputed and why so difficult....?

Well the EU  along with the influential few don't want us to leave...  So the deal they have put on the table is unreasonable ... In fact it is worse than staying in..   They have said this deal if non negotiable ....  The only way out of that is no deal exit...  But the influential few managed to take the NO Deal option off the table ...    STALEMATE....    

But we still have to satisfy the electorate or we will loose democracy...  Notice I wrote SATISFY , not CON the electorate.. That is what it is coming to ... The EU and  Remoaners are slowly being exposed for the evil, selfish, self serving manipulators they are . All they have and will achieve is disruption and distrust in the oldest democratic system..  Maybe that is their plan , I say this as the EU does not have publicly elected leaders , therefore dictates policy and law, whilst pretending to be democratic.. 

The UK was and always has been an independent force in the EU .  Not that it has done us much good or given us the benefits other nation states have received..    It has seemed for a long time , especially since members from the Eastern block have swelled the numbers, even though they did not meet the strict criteria of EU membership,  that the focus was on a federal socialist EU with free movement. ...    I believe the UK voters were far more aware of this than the politicians realised  and it played a far bigger part in the OUT vote than the other areas being hotly disputed..  .. 

I don't think anyone in the UK is anti Europe , we just don't want to be told by the EU what we can and can't do etc. There is a lot of smoke and mirrors about any deal ..  The truth is the EU will only put a deal out that is good for them ... So the argument and discussion should be about the EU being awkward and blocking any reasonable deal we put on the table..    Net result is we leave without one big deal..  A no deal Brexit..    We can go on WTO , get a great trade deal with the USA , set no tariffs with the EU,  then watch the EU come to us for deals to keep their trading relations alive with the UK before the rest of the world starts to supply what they have cheaper....     Or with the lifting of EU restriction , heaven forbid we start manufacturing and growing produce instead of buying it from the EU.     Problem with all that is , it will cause lower unemployment, greater prosperity and a more versatile economy ....  Not sure some people would be happy with that, !!!!!     

Rant over.... 

[C8RKH 6,397]

@CHANGES that was not a rant, it was a well put together piece on your view.

You need to attend my "how to throw your toys out of the pram and have a proper old rant"  course.  It's a bargain at £550 for the day including free tea and coffee and afterwards you will be able to make a superb rant about anything, absolutely anything, even something so small pothers won't even realise it was worthy of a rant!

Nice post by the way and well put.

[Chillidoggy 4,380]

£550 and only tea and coffee?

This is in itself rant-worthy.

[C8RKH 6,397]

41 minutes ago, Chillidoggy said:

£550 and only tea and coffee?

This is in itself rant-worthy.

It's that damned Brexit mate. My costs have gone through the roof................

[100th_Idiot 360]

10 hours ago, CHANGES said:

It is all very corrupt.  The people voted, the politicians voted, a law was passed, all to leave the EU..  ... All along a self serving group who did not agree with the democratic vote , who also happen to hold positions of influence , have done everything short of a treasonable act to overturn , discredit or sabotage the referendum result with lies , scare stories , false news and innuendo..  ..   And so it goes on...     

The real truth about the whole situation is , we must leave .... that is what the vote said... Whether you voted for or against is irrelevant ... We as a people  have always excepted a parliamentary election result , even when its a minority... You could always argue in these results more individual votes were cast for the party that technically lost the election , which has happened on many occasions..    In this referendum no such argument can be had, it could not have been more straight forward than one person one vote ... IN or OUT..   So why is it be disputed and why so difficult....?

Well the EU  along with the influential few don't want us to leave...  So the deal they have put on the table is unreasonable ... In fact it is worse than staying in..   They have said this deal if non negotiable ....  The only way out of that is no deal exit...  But the influential few managed to take the NO Deal option off the table ...    STALEMATE....    

But we still have to satisfy the electorate or we will loose democracy...  Notice I wrote SATISFY , not CON the electorate.. That is what it is coming to ... The EU and  Remoaners are slowly being exposed for the evil, selfish, self serving manipulators they are . All they have and will achieve is disruption and distrust in the oldest democratic system..  Maybe that is their plan , I say this as the EU does not have publicly elected leaders , therefore dictates policy and law, whilst pretending to be democratic.. 

The UK was and always has been an independent force in the EU .  Not that it has done us much good or given us the benefits other nation states have received..    It has seemed for a long time , especially since members from the Eastern block have swelled the numbers, even though they did not meet the strict criteria of EU membership,  that the focus was on a federal socialist EU with free movement. ...    I believe the UK voters were far more aware of this than the politicians realised  and it played a far bigger part in the OUT vote than the other areas being hotly disputed..  .. 

I don't think anyone in the UK is anti Europe , we just don't want to be told by the EU what we can and can't do etc. There is a lot of smoke and mirrors about any deal ..  The truth is the EU will only put a deal out that is good for them ... So the argument and discussion should be about the EU being awkward and blocking any reasonable deal we put on the table..    Net result is we leave without one big deal..  A no deal Brexit..    We can go on WTO , get a great trade deal with the USA , set no tariffs with the EU,  then watch the EU come to us for deals to keep their trading relations alive with the UK before the rest of the world starts to supply what they have cheaper....     Or with the lifting of EU restriction , heaven forbid we start manufacturing and growing produce instead of buying it from the EU.     Problem with all that is , it will cause lower unemployment, greater prosperity and a more versatile economy ....  Not sure some people would be happy with that, !!!!!     

Rant over.... 

The EU were always going to negotiate in their interest and make it very difficult for the UK to make an example to others. That was obvious before the referendum.

On WTO tariffs if we set zero for the EU we have to set zero for everyone. You cannot discriminate. So zero for the EU also means zero for the U.S. and zero for China.

[C8RKH 6,397]

13 minutes ago, 100th_Idiot said:

On WTO tariffs if we set zero for the EU we have to set zero for everyone. You cannot discriminate. So zero for the EU also means zero for the U.S. and zero for China

So we set it at zero and wow, free global trade?  That's a novel idea.  So our imports get cheaper, the EU countries who export to us will get [email protected], and our exporters get to compete whilst being supported by our Government to improve productivity and costs.

Ok. I'm in, where do I put my X? Or should I just right it on bog paper and flush it away for all the use that vote will be?

[Andyww 1,289]

Import tariffs for a no-deal situation have already been set and published. There isnt much to gain from having zero on everything. For example many farmers would go bankrupt.

Tariffs already set include cars but not car parts which makes sense.

The thing about no-deal is a lot of people in the public and private sectors have been beavering away (and spending quite a bit of money) preparing for it. It's quite well planned-for now. So why dont we just get on with it?

 

[Neal H 897]

40 minutes ago, 100th_Idiot said:

The EU were always going to negotiate in their interest and make it very difficult for the UK to make an example to others. That was obvious before the referendum.

On WTO tariffs if we set zero for the EU we have to set zero for everyone. You cannot discriminate. So zero for the EU also means zero for the U.S. and zero for China.

I don’t understand this. If this is true, what’s the point in states agreeing trade deals with one another? By this reasoning If you agree tariffs with one state then you agree tariffs with the whole world? Or do you just decide that you’re not going to trade under WTO rules, you’re going to set your own?

[100th_Idiot 360]

19 minutes ago, Neal H said:

I don’t understand this. If this is true, what’s the point in states agreeing trade deals with one another? By this reasoning If you agree tariffs with one state then you agree tariffs with the whole world? Or do you just decide that you’re not going to trade under WTO rules, you’re going to set your own?

Your tariffs under WTO must be the same for everyone with which you trade under WTO rules. Since we don't have a trade deal with either the U.S. or China at the moment WTO tariffs would apply.

50 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

So we set it at zero and wow, free global trade?  That's a novel idea.  So our imports get cheaper, the EU countries who export to us will get [email protected], and our exporters get to compete whilst being supported by our Government to improve productivity and costs.

Ok. I'm in, where do I put my X? Or should I just right it on bog paper and flush it away for all the use that vote will be?

We can only set import tarrifs. No obligation for countries to reciprocate so our exports would be unchanged

[Barrykearley 6,967]

I thought the bbc have been clear about this - the world is going to end