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Watching the news over the past 24 hours it seems that we are under a small invasion of immigrants illegally entering the country on boats from France. I'm struggling to understand (I know, I'm thick) a couple of things

1. Under EU law aren't illegal immigrants supposed to declare themselves and claim asylum at their point of entry into the EU?

2. If so, why are they "allowed" to travel across the EU to get to France and why are the French not locking them all up and returning them to whence they came if they have no right to assylum?

3. Why are the French insisting that the UK needs to pay for their inability to not deal with the problem and why don't we just send them straight back as soon as they have landed?  I do not see why the UK should be paying France to do what the EU laws say they should be doing in the first place.

What am I missing here? Please educate me.

Thanks

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I’m unsure why they are not being intercepted - towed back and boats destroyed. Works just fine for the Australians.

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1. Yes

2. They don't want them

3. Why not? We'll more than likely give them the money too. 

Once they're in UK waters, some UN resolution means that we have to save them. They turn off their engines off the coast so we're duty bound to rescue them. Once they're here, they all say they are 15 with no ID to confirm and as children we have a duty of care. 

Australia has a harder line and it would be nice if we weren't such a soft touch, there's talk of the UK adopting some of their policies with the recent influx. Genuine asylum seekers are very welcome, economic ones not so much. 

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Easy solved - just give them more benefits in Scotland as part of the Barnet formula - send them all up there. Once Scotland gets its independence and rejoins the EU we can build a fence 😂

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Its  a messed  up system nobody wants to deal with.      Being in Kent we see it a bit more in the local news than the rest of the Uk and this has been going on with the boats for 2 years.    The cost is huge for the tax payer ( although nothing compared to covid).    If they stand any chance of looking under 16 they all go for it as its regarded as the premium deal, they get foster care ( costs the state £1k a week with an independent fosteriing agency) and school.  If over 16 its shared house in comunity and collage.     Ive seen the over 16 route and im not suprised they want the foster care route however they get the same housing a UK kid gets if they went independent at 16..     

They have  different ideas  to the way we live here and have been sold a package deal by the smugglers and are VERY unhappy when they realise it not what they were told they would get ie house, car job as a doctor, go to cambridge or oxford yes the crap I have heard you would not beleive.      We have fostered 4 and now refuse to  look after any more.  

Most come from well adjusted familys with good backgrounds and probabaly quite wealthy as the journey cost is 4-5 years average wages, their problems really start on the journey over here.         

One of the lads we looked after had this year booked a plane trip ( cancelled due to covid) back to the neighbouring country to his home  to go back home and see his family so it does make a mockery of the whole asylum case.    This stuff is all well known by UK authoritys but nobody can be bothered to do anything about it.  

 

From his story one had seen  murder at arms length in the last 5 months and most had seen rape and assault and killings  up very close on their journeys over here ( that I do think is true) and within 3  days off arriving popped straight into a local secondary school with your  11 year old son or daughter, used to really anoy me when the SW would then rattle on about safeguarding etc.    

We now look after only  UK kids,   much much more damaged but the  satisfaction in playing a small part in turing their life about is huge.   Plus I never have to have a 20 year old in my face again shouting  "IT MY RIGHT".    We had a very intense  nose to nose conversation on that one.    

 We should have a lottery system for those countrys  with a refugee right.     If your  number comes up old or  young, straight or gay, healthy or unhealthy, male or female we fly you over from source avoiding the smugglers. EVERYBODY else straight back home the moment they land on the beach otherwise this will never stop.

 

Just remembered when the first 2 came to us it was when the ebola thing ws going on and when they arrived in Italy and France all the authoritys did was checked their temperature give them a train pass and show them the trains towards the UK.   Neither they or the French or Italians wanted  finger printing as that ties them to France and Italy.    It really is our own fault for having such a slack boarder policing system.    The first lad was in a dairy  lorry with 24 others that didnt get spotted till in UK.

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This is what I find annoying about the immigration system.

Person in commonwealth country is sent to the UK for a course by their employer, say for 2 weeks in February. Applies for visa, and instead of receiving a single entry visa for the period of their stay, they get given a 6 month multiple entry visa. They come over here and attend their course and return to their country of origin - and the employer is off the hook. They now have 5 1/2 months in which they can come back into the UK and disappear or claim asylum.

I know of one person who did this. Took about 5-6 years to get the asylum granted. Within two weeks, back on a plane for a holiday in the country they claimed asylum from. I think his wife has followed the same process. 

My sister in law on the other hand went to Germany on a course (she is a German teacher in a Commonwealth country). We invited her to come and visit the UK for two weeks after her course, so requested that she a) gets her return ticket changed, and also her visa changed to allow her to visit the UK and then fly back on her German Embassy funded ticket. The Germans issue a single entry visa for the duration of the stay. SIL said all done, so we issued the invite, she got her 6 month visa for her two week stay and booked her return air ticket to Hamburg to coincide with her return flight to Africa.

All well and good until we return to Heathrow to fly her back to Hamburg. Her German visa had been extended, but not changed to multiple entry, so they wouldn't let her check in. FCUK was my response. She came home with us and was on the Emirates flight via Dubai the next day. Next time she came on a course, we flew out to visit her in Germany.

Why is it impossible for the UK immigration to issue a single entry visa for the duration. Before the day of scanning the passport, they also had no idea if someone had left the country or even when they arrived.

 

 

 

 

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As a known Brexiteir people often assume Im anti immigration but its never really been a thing thats that high on my priory.

Recently though I find myself wondering WTF is going on?

The amount of people landing on our beaches is crazy. I just dont understand why our Navy isnt there just sending them back to France?

Seems we seem to have tried to reason with Europe and the French but this has not worked.

We have one of the best Navy's in the world so why cant we protect our borders from these amateurs? 

The amateur photographers getting themselves arrested for filming this should be pardoned and thanked.

Why does it take the likes of Nigel Farrage to have to make films to expose what is going on?

What we need is a decent drone company ideally based in Kent to get some footage over the course of a day  :thumbup: The press coverage would either make or break them though.

 

buddsy

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"Belief is the enemy of knowing" - Crrow777

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As I understand it, prior to the Immigration acts of the 1960s ALL Commonwealth citizens had the right to travel to the UK visa free, work settle down etc.. People would come and go as they liked and there was no need to "claim asylum" - like my previous example. However during the 1960s a number of acts were passed in parliament to restrict the rights of Commonwealth citizens to this free entry. 

  • Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1962
  • Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1968
  • Immigration Act 1971

The last one was the nail in the coffin as it gave European Community citizens priority over non EC citizens (i.e. Commonwealth). So eventually leading to the current situation where a Commonwealth citizen(*) has to fight to get a visa to come here, and then once here claim asylum to be able to stay. 

(*) although Australian, New Zealand, Canada and some South Africans don't necessarily have to fight so hard - see below. 

There was a scheme called the Working Holiday Visa  - (now morphed into the Youth Mobility Scheme visa). This was available to ALL Commonwealth citizens under the age of 26( I think), and allowed successful applicants to come to the UK to work for 6 months, travel for 6 months, work 6 months and travel 6 months before going home. I knew about this before I moved to Africa as I had employed a couple of Zimbabweans how were in the UK under this scheme (although they worked solidly for the whole two years before returning to Zimbabwe).

When I was in Uganda I had cause to visit the British High Commission a number of times to obtain visas for people to travel to the UK. During the time I was in country it became more and more difficult for Ugandans' to obtain visas to the UK, and when I raised the question of the Working Holiday visa. I detected some panic in the chap I was talking to and was basically told not to mention this scheme to Ugandans. On investigating further there had been ONE successful applicant from Uganda in the previous 5 or so years, whereas the countries named above had numbers in the hundreds, if not thousands.

The current scheme is now restricted to

  • Australia - 31,000 visas
  • Canada - 6,000 visas
  • Hong Kong - 1,000 visas
  • Japan - 1,000 visas
  • Monaco - 1,000 visas
  • New Zealand - 14,000 visas
  • South Korea - 1,000 visas
  • Taiwan - 1,000 visas

This was changed in 2008 from the one I knew about (and I thought was still in operation).

 

Edit to add: This has awoken my interest and I've sent a FOI request for the figures for all countries for the 5 years before and after the scheme was changed. See if my memory was correct.

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  • 2 months later...

Look forward to seeing a no-deal working without affecting trade.

For my own business I put into place PLT (paperless trade) ages ago so we can send worldwide with no accompanying paperwork at all. Works beautifully.

For Brexit all I have to do is change one setting to enable PLT for EU countries, which will take 1 minute. I have no idea why some people are going on about endless queues of trucks to the ports. I might be wrong as some of the people complaining about this are haulage companies but we will see.

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Check out her last sentence - "We also acknowledge that the UK would like to have a certain amount of independence"

I'm sorry, but if that is the correct translation, this is a complete lack of understanding of the UK.

 

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Sadly @kimbers - probably 99% of the individuals claiming asylum are not genuine. That’s the very problem we have.

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  • Gold FFM

Immigration is a complex issue but I would suggest what you are really discussing here is asylum and not immigration.

Immigration - we as a sovereign country have the right to decide who comes her to live, to work, to holiday whatever. We do not need to provide them with anything and can request that they fully comply with our laws etc.

Asylum - we as a sovereign country have the right to decide to provide asylum to people who are oppressed or at risk of harm due to their politics, race, sex, religion, colour or whatever. As an asylum seeker we have the right, and I would argue the obligation, to provide these people with accommodation and shelter. Safety. Food, water and clothing. And the right to practice their religion/beliefs etc so long as doing so does not contravene our laws or put our citizens at risk.

Immigration is there for people who want to come here to ask to come here. Asylum is their to offer a safe haven for those who need it.

As a principled country I think it is absolutely right re offer and provide Asylum to those who need it. I have absolutely no issue with it. Just as I have no issue with immigration, but the latter has to be on our terms and by our rules.

I do get totally pissed of at the EU and her member states who consistently and repeatably disregard their own laws for their own ends and who stand apart as individuals, rather than rallying around as partners to support each other.

 

 

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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@Kimbers Genuine question. Why did the lady risk so much by crossing the channel when once in the EU she was safe? You suggested she didnt speak English very well so where was she heading? Just to into England or to London?

 

buddsy

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"Belief is the enemy of knowing" - Crrow777

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I can't say mate. its not a question I asked her.

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

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  • Gold FFM
15 hours ago, Buddsy said:

You suggested she didnt speak English very well so where was she heading? Just to into England or to London?

Most likely London as I don't believe there are any "English" living there any more so the language issue would not be a barrier!  Of course, only joking!

The real question you asked Buddsy that no one prefers to answer is "Why did she risk her life to cross the channel" when she had the right to stay and be looked after in whatever country she was in in Europe?  Could it be that those countries are no not run by lefty do gooder snowflakes who are quite happy to give everything away because they "have a good story"?  What about the people in this country already (born here or not) who have a good story and need help, support, care etc? Oh yes, we can't afford to help them as we have others who we really know nothing about who are more "deserving"!  The whole situation stinks. From us "paying" the French to control "THEIR" borders to us accepting people who illegally pay to come here.

As I said in my earlier post, I'm not heartless, and the asylum process is a good thing that exists to do good, but our systems are being abused by people who have the economic means to either travel here themselves, or send their family members here, under false pretences. The Government needs to get a grip. Not be ruthless. Nor heartless. Nor abusive. But it does need to get back in control and send a very clear message about what we will and will not tolerate.

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

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For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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