Brexit

[franjipane]

haha!

ChrisJ i have mate, just a few pages ago i think 

[Andyww]

I think its high time there were some straight facts for once in this debate before tomorrow:

 

[ChrisJ]

To save me searching can you point me to it?

[Barrykearley]

I was looking in my fridge earlier.

it is nice to see that the cucumbers are now a lot more easier to store now they are straighter. Oh and the 18mm minimum roundness of the strawberries means you don't have to eat as many in one go.

all thanks to the eu. 

Now let's think about lack of housing, public services, schooling, nhs....list goes on and on. I blame largely out politicians for all of this. If the huge migration adds such value to our country - then bloody build the houses, schools ,hospitals and get on and fund services

[C8RKH]

You've partly hit the nail on the head there Barry. For me, the idea of the / a EU per se is NOT the issue. In fact, I can honestly see a lot of benefit in a squabble (if that is the right collective term) of nations coming together to:

1. Promote good relationships between citizens

2. Enable trade between states and businesses that ensures a common level playing field and equitable treatment under law (i.e. everyone gets paid on time etc.)

3. Provide improved security for all members and citizens

4. Deliver ease of travel between states and provide safety for all travellers

However, the problem with the EU is that they are not content to operate within this simple remit and they actually crave power and control and place it above democracy in importance. So instead of a squabble of nations that deliver on those four simple things, we get:

1. The deterioration of good relationships between citizens as the EU acts as a re-distributor of wealth, moving wealth and money and from prosperous citizens and handing it those it considers are more needy

2. Barriers to free trade that leads to instance where, for example an Island nations fishery fleet and business is decimated and is forced to look on whilst it's continental neighbours fleet is allowed freedom to rape and pillage the fisheries around the island. An example where one nation is allowed to subsidise the energy prices for business, therefore making its manufactured goods and heavy industries such as steel more competitive. An example where one nation follows the rules and opens up its regulated industries and national infrastructure to privatisation, seeing 70& of it taken over by companies from other states who have abused the rules and classifieds these business as "critical to the state" allowing their governments to effectively bank role the take over. Etc.

3 & 4. Reduced security due to open borders and lax security checks as the covet above all the right to free movement which has resulted in an increase in continental European acts of terrorism and a reduction in security for members and citizens

But all of these negatives are balanced by the desire of the EU to then go further and produce mountains of legislation on:

1. How straight, bent, curved, or big or small our vegatables must be which results in every year mountains of food being destroyed

2. A system of handing out subsidies to uncompetitive industries and for unsustainable farming techniques to promote inefficiency and waste

etc etc.

The EU in principle is not bad. The problem is that we have allowed its remit, its reach, its goals to stretch beyond the reasonable grounds and foundations on which it was built. It needs to be checked, it needs to be trimmed, and it needs to be put back within those original foundations which was all about a common trading block to provide access and a level playing field to trade and economic stability.

Security for Europe is handled in two ways. By individual member states managing their own business and sharing intelligence and co-operating, and by NATO. We do not need the EU for security, ergo, we do not need a European Army and the EU does not need a seat on the UN Security Council - it is NOT a nation. 

[franjipane]

36 minutes ago, ChrisJ said:

To save me searching can you point me to it?

For sure

There were some good replies it was part of a back and forth.

[Andyww]

The South East Asian countries have for many years got it right with ASEAN (Association of South east Asian nations) which is exactly what the EEC should be.

[Jacques]

Yes, the ec is bad. It was never meant to be a friendly trade organisation with easy crossing of borders etc. It was meant to be  a powerorgan in it's own right, for the sake of itself and the ones in power, which are not elected in a democratic way. The rest is just bread crumbs casted upon the floor for us, the dogs.

For your own sake as well as a possible one for the rest of us: Vote OUT, while you have the chance!

Please!

Kind regards,

Jacques.

 

[Barrykearley]

The point blank rebutting of any change by junker just goes to show how broken it all is.

i would like to see every country given a democratic vote on this - the eu needs disbanding and an old eec arrangement put in place. The experiment is broken and  destroying countries and communities now

[C8RKH]

Turkey's voting for xmas Barry. There's a reason so many ex Prime Ministers like Kinnock et al are in Brussels, and that's a reason why the country's will not be given the votes as the leaders they have are all eyeing up nice tasty positions in the EU when they get voted out. Scandalous.

[march]

1 hour ago, franjipane said:

 

I've no idea what you're on about there Barry you're mad as a hatter!

 

I think we all know that - after all he did buy a knackered V8 esprit.

[Chillidoggy]

40 minutes ago, march said:

I think we all know that - after all he did buy an esprit.

Corrected for accuracy.

[CHANGES]

1 hour ago, march said:

I think we all know that - after all he did buy a knackered V8 esprit.

Or did he just save it from a fate worse than Europe... 

There are a few out there who don't see things as a lost cause, but a challenge to make better, to overcome the shambles that it had been neglected into.  He stood up took the challenge and rebuilt it into a functioning entity once again. It was tough to begin with and cost a bit to do, but the results are to be seen , He has control to improve and prosper with and No outsider can dictate against that..   

There is a similar project which will take the whole of the UK to restore. Who has got the boll+++ks to stand up for the challenge, OR are we going to let that project degrade into scrap or be recycled into a BMW...  

[Barrykearley]

It's with some shame - 

The inner capitalist saw an opportunity, risk and potential reward!!

in hindsight - I'd do it all again - very satisfying and worthwhile

[LF1]

Well I've decided to spend the evening researching before voting tomorrow. Watching the BBC Debate on iPlayer. Struggling to see any facts so did a bit of googling. found this which was at least interesting, just need to find something as balanced from the other side now:

 

[Barrykearley]

Power monkeys is on ch 4 now

[march]

2 hours ago, ian29gte said:

3 hours ago, march said:

I think we all know that - after all he did buy an esprit.

Corrected for accuracy.

No - Correct the first time I think - it was definitely knackered.

[Buddsy]

58 minutes ago, LF1 said:

just need to find something as balanced from the other side now:

Brexit the movie if you havent already.

Buddsy

[s4simon]

... And here we are.  Welcome to your Day of Days.

Good luck to you all and remember to vote wisely.  There's no going back once you exit the polling place. :-)

 

I wonder if the LEF results will be replicated in the real poll today ...

[LF1]

9 hours ago, Buddsy said:

Brexit the movie if you havent already.

Buddsy

Thanks - 10 minutes in and just random statements that we should leave and the "unelected EU bureaucrats"... then Farage. 

Not sure I have time for an hour of unsubstantiated waffle (I'd assuming they'd have lead with headline facts if they had any?).

Anyone know where there is an accurate list of facts and a plan for when we leave, or do we just need to trust Boris, Gove and Farage?

Just noticed the comment about "ex PMs such as Kinnock"; Kinnock was never prime minister.

Edit: I am a genuine neutral trying to make a descision. 

[Chillidoggy]

We won't need to trust Boris, Gove and Farage if we vote to leave. The government will still be the government, not those jokers.

[rogerch]

I'm watching with interest.

[LF1]

4 minutes ago, ian29gte said:

We won't need to trust Boris, Gove and Farage if we vote to leave. The government will still be the government, not those jokers.

So why are these jokers heading up the campaign, is there no one with credibility available to lead the leave voice?

I think I have come to the party a bit late here - getting the feeling this has all been covered before?

[Chillidoggy]

To be fair, 'credibility' and 'politician' aren't words normally heard in the same sentence.

Still, at least Remain has Sir Bob Geldof as an ambassador.

[LF1]

Ok - driving related question, if we come out will the plans for speeding tickets and points earned on the continent to follow us back to the UK still be viable?