Brexit

[Andyww 1,302]

Yes the writing was on the wall even before the referendum.

Cameron quite rightly went to them and warned them that they really should give some concessions otherwise there was a risk the UK might vote leave but they told him to sod off.

[JG220 285]

29 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

I know many remainers whom have completely changed their minds based on the disgusting approach the EU have towards the UK.

And the reverse is true too. 

[C8RKH 6,733]

8 hours ago, JG220 said:

Yes, thats all very nice but, given that the fudge is certainly worse than remaining, and that no deal 'doesn't have a majority (in parliament or in the public') then isn't remaining the least bad outcome?

Wouldn't it be nice if we can just put it all behind, accept it was 2 years and £billions of wasted time and money and instead, rather than Brexit dominating British politics for at least a generation as each successive governments seek to make the deal a little bit less bad, can't we now focus that effort and money on:

- Child poverty

- Policing and security

- Education, in particular school funding

- The NHS

- Transport and Infrastructure. 

- House of Lords reform

-And so on and so on

History (in factt it's already evident)  will show that these have all fallen behind because of Brexit. It was a vote which should never have come to bear because the effects of its distraction will last for decades and the country will be significantly weaker as a result.

I'll take your VX220.ORG post and raise you with my VX220.ORG response to it:

I disagree with you @JG. After all we did not have a referendum on a "deal" we had a referendum on in or out?  So saying "no deal" does not have public support is wrong and how is this backed up? I know many people who are happy to see a "no deal".

And your point re Brexit dominating British politics for at least a generation, well, isn't that what membership of the EU has done? When we look at the money and effort we have wasted on that institution?  How could that have been better spent over the past 30 years on:

- Child poverty

- Policing and security

- Education, in particular school funding

- The NHS

- Transport and Infrastructure. 

- And so on and so on.

History (in fact it's already evident)  will show that these have all fallen behind because of our membership of the EU and the interference in our culture, way of life etc. from Brussels and the EU. It was a vote which was long overdue because the effects of The distraction and protectionism from the EU will continue to last for decades and the country will be further significantly weakened as a result.

Sound familiar?

Thanks.

[Barrykearley 7,153]

On the plus side - sky news have a countdown to brexit on screen now.

cant wait for us to crash out into the impending doom

[MPx 292]

 

10 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

I know many remainers whom have completely changed their minds based on the disgusting approach the EU have towards the UK.

 

9 hours ago, JG220 said:

And the reverse is true too. 

Amazing.  I know of no one changing.  Barry Brexit knows people changing towards Brexit...James Remain knows people changing towards remain.  Looks like the only thing I was right about is that we all operate in our own little bubble and extrapolate unbelievable nonsense from our position of next to no insights beyond our immediate circle.  

[Steve V8 1,312]

I haven't come across anyone who would vote differently if asked again, but I do think many feel so disillusioned with the whole process that the turnout would be much lower.

My constituency, Bath and North East Somerset was one of the few areas in England to vote remain. I work for a broad spectrum of people across society and across the area, the overwhelming majority of my customers, I'd say 8/10 said they wanted out, I still believe that my local government hired the services of Mr Mugabe to assist with the final count, it was made clear by the polling station officials that only votes crossed in pencil would be counted, why was that do you think?

[Barrykearley 7,153]

8 hours ago, MPx said:

Amazing.  I know of no one changing.  Barry Brexit knows people changing towards Brexit...James Remain knows people changing towards remain.  Looks like the only thing I was right about is that we all operate in our own little bubble and extrapolate unbelievable nonsense from our position of next to no insights beyond our immediate circle.  

No one really knows. One thing is for certain - the EU leaders are acting in a disgusting manner towards the negotiations. Where they will not compromise and we are doing all the bowing and scraping. Everyone and anyone can see what is happening. Labour is making out they would get a better deal. It just won’t happen - the EU do not want the UK cash cow to leave

we need out of this corrupt and undemocratic kalergi mess.

[Barrykearley 7,153]

And this morning the bbc report a secret plan B 

[CHANGES 1,289]

I believe May has concentrated to much on finding a deal that the EU 27 will except , rather than just putting forward the deal that is best for the UK..  The end result should be the same,  NO deal . Its a no brainier , a deal that is a compromise is not a Brexit , parliament should reject by default.  As far as the EU 27 agreeing to anything the UK requests, well that never happened when we were part of it ,so that a No Deal..    If a good deal for all parties is not attainable then NO DEAL is the only option.   This to the layman was always on the table , why did the politicians only mention in passing as a threat and not make contingency plans..   It will all sort out fine even with a no deal.. there is to much at stake for the EU to be petty.  They will make noises and the BBC will broadcast doom and gloom , but we will get through it and for the better given time..  SO heads up be proud be British and be positive..  

PS. Do we get to play the Ryder cup Golf tournament back as before without the EU players ..  It would be a much better comp if we did and help promote the UK younger players..    Or will the EU try to steal what they were invited into as their own..  !!!!   

[Barrykearley 7,153]

I have my fingers and toes firmly crossed for the vote to be hoofed out on its arse sortly.

In the post apocalyptic doom which is brexit - I’m sure we will survive and make it out the other side alive. Worst case I reckon only 48% of the population will starve to death 🤭

[Andyww 1,302]

Agreed.

The leaflet which was sent out to everyone at a cost of £7 million stated that the two options were remain or no deal. It never mentioned anything about a deal.

The discussion of a deal only came about after the result.

[Barrykearley 7,153]

Ahh the leaflet. Now let’s remember all the lies both side peddled.

what was in that leaflet has been proven to be lies and they are simply building yet more lies upon that.

the electorate aren’t as stupid as the media makes out. Let’s get out and now.

[CHANGES 1,289]

What  a great little twist it would be if Spain veto'd any vote because of Gibraltar .... Then parliament would not need to vote and Spain could be the bad boy of EU..    It really is as pathetic as that..  Democratic  nations squabbling over petty points to get one over..   Wars have started for less....  and yes Europe stands as a non dictatorial democracy because we the British stood alone and did not give in to Hitler...  We fought back and helped win their freedom..  After we did that , they rebuilt their countries infrastructure and economy without having to pay for the War... which the UK did until Maggie paid it off decades later..  We asked to join their common market as our economy was floundering , its the least they could have done, but NO we had to beg before they let us join, and have given us a hard time ever since ....   45 year later this common market is now called the EU and has 27 members,  an un elected  goverment that dictates policy under the disguise of democracy..   Is it any wonder the free thinking patrons of the UK voted to leave.  The EU can have its un elected officials that dictate policy , , that is not what we desire.  They should be honorable enough to recognise the service the UK gave for their freedom and dissolve any involvement in out internal affairs .

[Andyww 1,302]

Not only the UK, most countries except Germany would also vote leave if they were given a vote.

Macron has stated he isnt going to give the French people a vote because they would probably vote leave.

[CHANGES 1,289]

There you go EU democracy at its best.. !

[Barrykearley 7,153]

How did this drunk get elected ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46336137

[100th_Idiot 368]

9 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

No one really knows. One thing is for certain - the EU leaders are acting in a disgusting manner towards the negotiations. Where they will not compromise and we are doing all the bowing and scraping. Everyone and anyone can see what is happening. Labour is making out they would get a better deal. It just won’t happen - the EU do not want the UK cash cow to leave

we need out of this corrupt and undemocratic kalergi mess.

Did you expect anything different entering this complex negotiation from a position of weakness? I didn't

[pete 1,966]

Position of weakness?

[C8RKH 6,733]

2 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

How did this drunk get elected ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46336137

He didn't, but maybe that was your point ;)

 

[PaulCP 731]

47 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

He didn't, but maybe that was your point

 

Yep, unelected, unaccountable, just an egocentric dictator to justify his fat salary at the expense of the EU economy along with his suitably unelected, unaccountable cronies. 

They know the deal won’t get past Parliament. It doesn’t take much to realise that U.K. MPs are just like them. Take Corbyn’s real view on the the way forward for instance “Labour will oppose it because we want a general election.” He doesn’t care about anything else.

[Kimbers 1,912]

On 24/11/2018 at 23:32, MPx said:

 

 

Amazing.  I know of no one changing.  

My wife has had a total reversal. She was an avid remainer and I was an avid leaver, we didn't speak to each other after a blazing row, for 2 days before the vote. After the vote she was livid with me and my son who both voted leave, effectively blocking her and my daughters votes to remain. 

However she is now a no deal brexiteer. She wants out and now because she see's the way the Eu have treated us, charged us so much and the way they have gone about the negotiations has shown her their true colours.

Me I've actually gone the other way. I was a no deal Brexiteer and am now a deal Brexiteer. My thoughts are that if the no dealers get their way and Parliament reject the current deal, I think the remainers will get their second referendum. I feel this is what ALL politicians want no matter how their constituents voted, as all they can think of is their own pockets, future job in the EU and/or working in the EU.

[Neal H 914]

1 hour ago, Kimbers said:

I was a no deal Brexiteer and am now a deal Brexiteer. My thoughts are that if the no dealers get their way and Parliament reject the current deal, I think the remainers will get their second referendum. I feel this is what ALL politicians want no matter how their constituents voted, as all they can think of is their own pockets, future job in the EU and/or working in the EU.

The trouble is the current deal is even worse than just staying in the EU. It commits us to staying in the customs union until the EU tells us we can leave. This means we are not in a position to negotiate a trade deal - The EU can just impose on us what it wants, and we have to either take it or stay in.

As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong) being in the customs union commits us to:

1. Continuing to accept freedom of movement

2. Continuing to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court

3. Unable to negotiate seperate trade deals

4. Payment of €39bn 'divorce' bill

The electorate voted to leave the EU and the Prime Minister effectively negotiates away our right to choose to leave! I don't know what the outcome is of parliament rejecting it (collapse of Tory government and general election probably), but any outcome is better than the 'deal' on the table.

 

[Kimbers 1,912]

Not if it means they overturn the referndum vote!

[Neal H 914]

The current deal doesn't deliver the referendum result!

[Andyww 1,302]

The problem is, this deal relies on the one thing which has been wrong with our relationship with  the EU throughout our membership, the fact we trust them.

This misplaced trust has cost the UK dearly over the years, for example the way we trust the others over fishing, the way we trust them over freedom of company ownership while the French blatantly ignore the rules and put all their large companies on a list of protected against overseas takeovers. 

The way we scrutinise companies against corruption according to EU rules while German companies win contacts in Asia with openly corrupt methods which British Aerospace and others get investigated.

The list goes on. We are about to trust them to give us a trade deal during the withdrawal. You would think the UK government would have learned by now, there is absolutely no way they will do so.