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18 hours ago, Francisco Franco said:

I also think the 80% of wages was too high, 60% seems a more realistic figure, what with all the payment holidays on offer for virtually everything, the week willed will certainly be storing up problems for the future

I definitely agree, after all , we the UK voting population by default have ratified the level of support paid in situations such as unemployment and sickness, and that's nowhere near 80%, nor even 60% of the average income. So, if it's OK for others to take a massive financial drop, then surely we have to equally be prepared for a massive drop if we no longer had to go into work (and all the expense that goes with it), let alone the reduction in luxury expenditure (eating / drinking out, events, clothes shopping ).  The message given by the 80% / £2.5k is don't worry you'll not loose anything due to COVID-19. Well somebody has to pay and I think it's us the UK taxpayers who carried on working/ trading.

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Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.

Several companies are promising to pay back furlough payments in the future out of profits.  A very nice move.  BA, take note.....

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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55 minutes ago, andydclements said:

I definitely agree, after all , we the UK voting population by default have ratified the level of support paid in situations such as unemployment and sickness, and that's nowhere near 80%, nor even 60% of the average income. So, if it's OK for others to take a massive financial drop, then surely we have to equally be prepared for a massive drop if we no longer had to go into work (and all the expense that goes with it), let alone the reduction in luxury expenditure (eating / drinking out, events, clothes shopping ).  The message given by the 80% / £2.5k is don't worry you'll not loose anything due to COVID-19. Well somebody has to pay and I think it's us the UK taxpayers who carried on working/ trading.

That was the exact message intended though - support the population and the economy whilst we deal with this pandemic by placing our way of life on hold.  It was the right government support, when we needed it.  I think its one of the best things of recent times ever done by governments and I don't think it warrants the time to compare it to other long-term and lower scale (in terms of applications) benefits.  A number of my friends have been furloughed and this scheme has meant they've been okay.   As has been said above, that some companies are exploiting the scheme (BA shame on you!) is another thing and I agree with posts above that long term we should vote with our feet and not support these immoral businesses.

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Furlough does not mean your job is safe, it may just mean your ok until the government says go back to work and if the company can't trade your redundant. I know someone this has happened to. There is going to be huge unemployment, what happens to the catering staff, the cleaners, the caretakers, the car park attendants etc. at the offices in the City if most will have the majority of staff working from home? Insurance companies may well go under with unprecedented payouts. The hospitality sector will be decimated, so much for moving tables outside, we live in the UK its normally wet and cold. There is a storm coming and its going to be a hard one.


Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic

"I haven't ridden in cars pulled by cows before" "Bullocks, Mr.Belcher" "No, I haven't, honestly"

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@red vtec there is a difference between "furlough" and the JRS (Job Retention Scheme) is there not?  Any employee can be furloughed, however, there are defined rules for claiming for furlough'd workers under the JRS scheme through HMRC.

There is nothing to prevent someone from being made redundant whilst on furlough (or indeed whilst not on furlough) but remember it is the "role" that is made redundant and not an individual. So you cannot make someone redundant in a role and then employ someone else in the same role.  The key issue is around what the furlough is and is not used for.  It is to be used to pay employees salaries (up to the limits), it is not to be used to substitute redundancy payments so if a business believes it will not be viable, it still needs to ensure it is able to pay the redundancy obligations they have accrued.

Hope that makes sense.

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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@C8RKH I have not said it is being used to reduce redundancy payments to the employer, I am saying that in some cases it is just a delay before redundancy. A company might not have business to open back up, the demand/sector has disappeared. Therefore it will make sweet FA if it is furlough or JRS to the poor sod made redundant.


Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic

"I haven't ridden in cars pulled by cows before" "Bullocks, Mr.Belcher" "No, I haven't, honestly"

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If the company does not have the resources to reopen then it should not be furloughing staff but closing and making people redundant. Might sound harsh but the reality is that the JRS is a grant to protect jobs, not to provide a free income and defer redundancy until the grant stops. I've heard some horrendous stories of how the grants, interest free loans and various other schemes are being systematically raped and abused by some. For instance one self employed guy who just thought it was free money he could blow - but he forgot that the Grant goes through his books so will now be taxable so when he withdrew it to make a £25k luxury purchase it ended up pushing him into a higher earnings tax bracket as it was deemed as "earnings".  I've heard of much worse abuses than that.


Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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14 hours ago, Buddsy said:

Fox news, BBC News, Sky News they are all in the same barrel.

 

Wow seems Im not alone anymore! 

MORE THAN A FIFTH OF PEOPLE IN ENGLAND BELIEVE COVID-19 IS A HOAX

 

buddsy

Tell that to an ex-work colleague of mine who's partner died of Covid at the end of April.

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Or the PM of Italy I think it was?

If it was the governments lying to everyone about the virus, he did a great job of looking upset for the cameras.

It's real. To think anything else is quite presumptuous.

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All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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20 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Several companies are promising to pay back furlough payments in the future out of profits.  A very nice move.  BA, take note.....

I always said that the furlough scheme should be means tested. Dyson is the one that springs to my mind (albeit I admit to having an issue with him as I believe him to be a complete hypocrite), using the furlough scheme despite not needing the support. He always spouts ideology right up to the point that it starts costing him money. I remember when he said he'd always manufacture solely in the UK - guess what it's now Malaysia and Singapore..... and did the ridiculous price of his products reduce, er no straight in the back pocket.

13 hours ago, C8RKH said:

If the company does not have the resources to reopen then it should not be furloughing staff but closing and making people redundant. 

I must admit, if I ran a small company and it was likely to go to the wall or downsize I'd use the furlough scheme to try and defer the pain for my employees. It's not like they can easily go out and get another job at the moment.


A Lotus is for driving, pork is for breakfast.

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Small companies also have no idea of when it ends and what business is like then. At lockdown I spent the whole weekend texting my guys to see who was prepared to do what and what they thought would happen in the coming weeks.

Companies that furloughed their staff will be hoping they can make things work out when it's easing off, but I don't think even the hospitality sector thought the long term implications would be so catastrophic.

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Of course the furlough scheme is now closed to new applications. So if you’ve been battling on for the past 4 months doing your bit to keep your head above water and the economy running, without resorting to any Treasury hand-outs, you’re now on your own if you lose your job. 
 

Whereas the person who got furloughed on Day 1, could well be getting £2500 per month for 5 months and potentially another 3 months on top of that with a little employer assistance.
 

So the person who has kept on working for the past 4 months and then loses his/her job gets to sign on the dole, but the person who has been furloughed and not working at all for 8 months gets potentially 8 x £2500 = £20,000 from this Government scheme.

How can that be fair?

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1 hour ago, Colin P said:

I must admit, if I ran a small company and it was likely to go to the wall or downsize I'd use the furlough scheme to try and defer the pain for my employees. It's not like they can easily go out and get another job at the moment.

We have other protections and schemes for that.


Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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1 hour ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

How can that be fair?

Life ain't fair. And that's the truth.

There are stories out there of "self employed" tradespeople furloughing themselves, taking the cash, then working "cash in hand" non stop making fistfuls of cash and shafting the system. How is that fair? Why is my hard earned tax money being handed out to shysters like this and when will they get hauled to account?

There will always be winners and losers. Life ain't fair!

I'm working my nuts off right now, 12-15 hour days and have been all through this. Some of my colleagues are furloughed on "full pay" doing sweet FA etc.  Life ain't fair!


Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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9 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

I'm working my nuts off right now, 12-15 hour days and have been all through this. 

Same here 7 days a week. Took only 1 of the bank holidays, really needed this holiday/break/house move to de-stress. That worked well didn't it!!

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A Lotus is for driving, pork is for breakfast.

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Best laid plans of mice men, or something like that!  :)

I'm off Friday!  Can't wait got two Hethel beauties that I am going to thrash the arse off until they beg me to stop. Or of course until they run out of petrol......


Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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8A63DD07-DC80-4BBA-8E07-AB884DDB0D43.jpeg

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Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk - that will teach us to keep mouth shut!

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Beyond the call of duty?

I can't see any ppe at all in that one.

 

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20 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Best laid plans of mice men, or something like that!  :)

I'm off Friday!  Can't wait got two Hethel beauties that I am going to thrash the arse off until they beg me to stop. Or of course until they run out of petrol......

glad you added the last bit🤫

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hindsight: the science that is never wrong

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Anyone else noticed how the number of positive new cases seems to have plateaued over the past week at around the 1000 - 1500 per day mark? Unsurprisingly Matt Hancock failed to point out this fact at his last press briefing when the data on his slide showed an increase in cases compared to the same day of the previous week. The current daily new cases figure equates pretty closely with the number of new cases being reported at the start of lockdown (23 March). Of course the overall situation is very different now and hundreds of thousands of tests are being performed, so not just in hospitals, however we are now several weeks in to the period of high volume testing and the new daily cases scenario now seems to be on the increase if anything. Having seen all the mass gatherings recently, I guess we shouldn’t be surprised if this is the result.

Also, what’s with meat processing industry? CV outbreaks in the past few days at factories in Cleckheaton, Anglesey and a big one in Germany, which seems to be due to poor living conditions of their immigrant workers. Is this the same at UK facilities? Could these companies pass the virus into our food supply?

Edited by LotusLeftLotusRight

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My grandson in Sydney has been tested today for Covid-19. Has been sick for a few days so his mum took him to be tested. Waiting to hear now.


All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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NO, @LotusLeftLotusRight , you will not get COVID through the meat handling food chain and as long as you properly store, and cook your food then the cooking process will kill off the virus.

That is the latest science based advise as opposed to "my" advice. Maybe they just need to be careful when handling sausages in the meat packing area.


Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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