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There is normally more Lee way on the first lap,Screenshot_20210718-200025.thumb.png.bf580997c5b96f38d1dfa9c9bac6ea75.png

hindsight: the science that is never wrong

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5 hours ago, pete said:

Marko out of order wanting Hamilton banned

Well said Pete, could not agree more 👍

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7 hours ago, Redwing said:

Christian Horner obviously ordered Perez in for a late tyre change in order to enable him to set the fastest lap and deny Hamilton that extra point.  In doing this, he sacrificed at least one point for the Red Bull team in the Constructors Championship. 

Yeah, but Red Bull getting one point is the same as Mercedes not getting a point in terms of constructors championship. He prettymuch just traded his point for one point less of Hamilton in Ham/Ver battle for championship. It didn't change Mercedes/RB score at all.

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4 hours ago, EldonZ said:

What I saw was two drivers not giving much quarter. Hamilton was playing the long game when the season started. He is behind so his strategy was not working. He has allowed his competition to play the more aggressive card and take advantage of the results. Now he decides that he needs to be more aggressive, as his competition, and when two drivers are going to be aggressive, what we saw is what is going to happen. The results are one wrecks, both wrecks or neither. Looking at the race, I would put Lewis at 51% and Max at 49%. Why? Because the over taking driver has the responsibility to make the pass without causing a collision. Max has been driving with very aggressive tactics so he should not be complaining. Sooner or later, how you drive is going to come back and haunt you. Was it an unsafe place to pass? Really! These guys are claimed to be the best and should be able to do things the normal drivers cannot. Lewis proved that it is a viable passing zone because he passed for the lead of the race with the same maneuver. I also believe that it was noted that another driver pulled off the same move in the same corner.

My 2 cents,
Eldon

I would say 50/50

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The irony is that if Max Verstappen met a clone of himself on a racetrack, he would crash out every race.   Had the 2 cars had been 10mm apart, the opening lap would have been lauded as one of the greats of the modern age....    

Edited by 910Esprit
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I dont think anyone has said he was blameless, but maybe the system is slightly flawed, as generally there are no penalties when drivers successfully take evasive action to avoid aggressive driving?

Its interesting that the driver with the most to gain (Charles Leclerc) thought it was a racing incident (as did some other neutral drivers).

Edited by 910Esprit
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  • Gold FFM


Well to be fair, Leclerc has also been accused of aggressive driving, and the F1 past is littered with examples. Montoya springs to mind as one such, Senna another. I just happen to think that debating these post-race incidents are worthless, as the referee’s decision is always final. Or the race stewards in this case. As for the system being flawed, that’s something for the F1 mandarins to decide.

Margate Exotics.

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2 hours ago, Chillidoggy said:

For me, the plain fact of the matter is that Hamster got a penalty, not Max.

There wasn’t much point penalising him once his car was buried in the barrier. That was penalty enough. 

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The race adjudicator likely also considered the first few bends leading up to the crash when Max should have given way. 2 bends earlier (left-hander) when Lewis was forced to brake on the outside as Max careered into his part of the track.

If Max had of done the same as Lewis on the right-hander, then he would have avoided the racing incident. Hopefully this will teach Max to be more respectful and less reckless on track.

Max's style reminds me of Harry King in the Porsche cup, at some point someone on the track will also not give way, but when it happens, I can't imagine that Mr King would then be whingeing about it with his team manager.   

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1 hour ago, Bravo73 said:

There wasn’t much point penalising him once his car was buried in the barrier. That was penalty enough. 


Agreed.

However, race stewards still penalise drivers who came off worse in incidents. If the perpetrator subsequently crashes, or retires, then a next-race grid penalty gets applied.

Margate Exotics.

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Don't understand why the penalty wasn't decided before the race restarted,had ample time

hindsight: the science that is never wrong

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22 hours ago, Neal H said:

I think Hamilton decided to lay down a marker that he’s not always going to back down when Max turns in on him. About time!

100% agree with you.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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17 hours ago, EldonZ said:

Max has been driving with very aggressive tactics so he should not be complaining. Sooner or later, how you drive is going to come back and haunt you

100% agree with you. Max has had it all his own way for two long, arguably making it easier for Hamilton as Max wrecks himself or his car. Hamilton is putting his elbows out the same Max has done time and time again.  Horner is becoming a bit of a joke really. Not sure if he shouldn't try singing as a career change to be honest.

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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I agree C8. Racing incident. Both could have avoided, I think it was important for Lewis not to yield here though. As per the end of the video you posted, he has, time and again yielded to Max to avoid accidents as the more mature driver. Unfortunately, you can't do that and fight a World Championship from behind, especially against someone who will just assume you are going to yield.

You need to set a marker down and say, if you do that, there will be contact. Hamilton was alongside as they approached the corner. The folks who say it was front to rear wheel contact proves it was Hamilton's fault don't realise that a driver trying to be more sensible and slowing down is the one who will end up looking more at fault. Max obviously saw Hamilton, waited for him to lift (which he did slightly) and then tried to chop across to make him lift more/brake and give himself space, it didn't work. Live by the sword etc..

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1 hour ago, TdM said:

a driver trying to be more sensible and slowing down is the one who will end up looking more at fault.

It's exactly this, also given the much tighter angle to the corner (not to mention colder 1st lap tyres) Hamilton needs to slow or he just will not turn in anyway.

Again, as an armchair expert it's easy after to the effect to comment on what was happening to someone else, at 200mph in real time.  But again, Max had a super wider run off arear to use and as he had already gone off track to keep P1 at least once on this lap he could have done it again. He just refused to lift and concede he had lost the corner.  I always thought that if you were alongside, on the inside, braking into/entering the corner then you have the racing line and can "open" your steering out to push the outside driver wider. let's be ho0nest, Max does that all the time. The more I see it, the more I look at, the more I think it was actually 51% Max and 49% Hamilton but they couldn't give Max the penalty given his heavy crash!

I think the more Red Bull look at this the more "sheepish" they might be about how they reacted. i can understand in the heat of the moment, but the analysis IS showing they were not 100% correct with the judgement here.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Really sad day if this is true.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/89636/red-bull-hires-lawyer-to-investigate-action-against-hamilton.html

I wonder if every other driver who has been crashed into and driven off track by Max will now ask their teams to review each incident and the action taken?

I think if there was a prize for poorest loser in F1, Red Bulkl would be in P1 now alongside their constructors and WDC P1's.  So sad to see it coming to this, IF, it is true.

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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