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White S2 at U.K. Sportscars


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Seems the Esprit S1 owners always think their cars are the most valuable, must be something to do with all the wannabee James Bond types that buy them. The "JPS" boys seem to think theirs are the most

The silver S2 which sold recently (Dave referred to on one of his earlier posts) is now subject to a restoration blog.  Stumbled upon this today:    

Thanks for all the replies! One poster asked what was wrong with my black S2, it went a few years ago as part exchange for a Porsche (we had kids on the way and reality struck me that without a 2

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It looks like a nice car, interior needs something sorting though as the carpets are too red IMHO and the leather wants some light resto work, looks like the dash material is new so not matched as rest very faded making it look half done. All can be fixed up but not cheap and the door speakers are horrendous. 

FF90E66C-9B86-4EA0-ACCE-66BB31697861.thumb.jpeg.d33329110da2f151e951c2ef0fdb2d6c.jpeg7DAD8C48-A789-4FF9-942F-D94A28377281.jpeg.eb440ddb3b96f01ab3a623d874af5cef.jpeg0A7ABBA2-57F2-4B5F-9461-355602A45AA8.jpeg.fe2090227c9f80c06e03457e24d51a80.jpeg
 

Dave :) 

Do or do not, there is no try! 

 

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1 hour ago, LOTUSMAN33 said:

It looks like a nice car, interior needs something sorting though as the carpets are too red IMHO and the leather wants some light resto work, looks like the dash material is new so not matched as rest very faded making it look half done. All can be fixed up but not cheap and the door speakers are horrendous. 

Dave :) 

I think I'd rather go for this at £7k less... https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C996633

Edited by Paul Coleman

Lotus Esprit [meaning] a 1:1 scale Airfix kit with a propensity to catch fire

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Agree with Paul, this looks like a better choice and smart in red ( needs the black sills ideally to give that original look) .

Dave :) 

Do or do not, there is no try! 

 

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Thanks, I believe the red car has been there a while, starting out with gold leaf colour scheme.

The S2 / S1 look alike appeals being white. I did wonder if it had been subject to any forum posts recently.

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There is also a gold one on Car & Classic for £34k

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1018602

Seems previous owners didn't like black sills either.

Three S2's for sale at once is rare, all at strong money.  Anyone think they will get to these prices?

 

 

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Maybe before what’s coming Neil although some of these cars have been for sale over a year so looks unlikely.

The Silver S2 which eventually sold for £7800 on eBay in original condition with all its bits was a good benchmark for restoration cases now.

I like the black one U.K. Sportscars have the most and was tempted to get someone local to check it out.

The white car looks good just shame about the interior.
The gold one is really nice just £9k over priced to tempt me I think, £25k for a very good example seems about right with restored cars commanding a premium if done well.

The JPS seems to have hit S1 money now 😢

Dave :) 

Do or do not, there is no try! 

 

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Agree Dave, I think your assessment is spot on.

Special editions are always going to command a premium, just on rarity alone.

 

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22 hours ago, LOTUSMAN33 said:

 

The JPS seems to have hit S1 money now 😢

Dave :) 

What do people think a realistic acheivable price for a JPS is? I'd love it to be £64000, especially as I reckon mine is more original and better overall, but it seems high.

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9 minutes ago, Senior said:

What do people think a realistic acheivable price for a JPS is? I'd love it to be £64000, especially as I reckon mine is more original and better overall, but it seems high.

£40k on a good day

Lotus Esprit [meaning] a 1:1 scale Airfix kit with a propensity to catch fire

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I know a couple people who paid that already and several who are thinking of selling for more.

1 hour ago, Paul Coleman said:

£40k on a good day

As Paul says on a good day with the right buyer good prices are paid, I think the £64k car is a little over optimistic and likely to be for sale a fair while.

Dave :) 

Do or do not, there is no try! 

 

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On 27/05/2020 at 20:41, LOTUSMAN33 said:

Maybe before what’s coming Neil although some of these cars have been for sale over a year so looks unlikely.

The Silver S2 which eventually sold for £7800 on eBay in original condition with all its bits was a good benchmark for restoration cases now.

I like the black one U.K. Sportscars have the most and was tempted to get someone local to check it out.

The white car looks good just shame about the interior.
The gold one is really nice just £9k over priced to tempt me I think, £25k for a very good example seems about right with restored cars commanding a premium if done well.

The JPS seems to have hit S1 money now 😢

Dave :) 

JPS ‘World Champion’ S2s haven’t hit S1 prices, there’s just been a couple touted at that price. As far as I know none have sold. Besides I’d expect prices to have fallen over the past 6 or more months as vehicles generally, let alone classics, have not been moving. Literally...

Very good JPS S2s seemed to go for about £45,000 but there’s been a few not selling at that of late.

Interestingly the white S2 at U.K. Sportscars has an S1 spoiler. Probably the least desirable aspect of that design, even above the lack of additional air cooling IMO. The ‘barge board’ spoiler is susceptible to catching cross winds, that Lotus Cars improved with extensive wind tunnel testing. Which was largely unchanged right the way through to the end of the S3 production run. Whereas the notorious S1 engine cooling issues can be alleviated by using a modern triple-core radiator and unrated modern cooling fans. I need to look at this S2 more closely, as I believe that the lower front quarter body shell differs from the S1 to accommodate the revised S2 wrap around spoiler.

I believe that there have been 2 silver S2s sold since last September. Or they are in fact the same car. The first sold for £12,000 on eBay one a Sunday morning.  A complete wreck which had lain up for years. Though largely complete. This was later readvertised and possibly again. Leading to the confusion that it may be 2 different cars with the same specification and history.

Exceptionally good S2s have been advertised for £34,000 and selling for less I imagine. So I’d expect that this price will have fallen in practical terms given the current market conditions.

Saying that, restorations especially where largely complete have always been strong sellers. See above. Even if they have been later sold on by their original purchasers who’ve had second thoughts. This has happened at least twice with S2s specifically.

 All S1s regardless of condition command a premium price, with the original and unrestored sales being the most popular. When they turn up that is. There are folk who are being duped out there, selling their seemingly worthless, yet complete S1s for bargain basement money, as I know of at least 2 that have sold over the past 12 months.

Having just about completed my own extensive S1 restoration over 4 years, I’ve followed prices very keenly.

 

 

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Their were two silver S2’s floating about on eBay, one private which went for £7800 and the other listed by a trader with red interior for £14k, not sure what that actually sold for.

I know of three JPS cars at £60k plus as contacted most owners in my search as having owned both they are my preference although I will always like the S1 and wouldn’t turn down a restoration car. The remaining JPS cars are all £40k upwards.

I found a few S1’s needing work from £20k upto a nice example at £35k with the remaining cars at £50k or plus.

The biggest problem with the S1 these days is originality, I know of 15 cars for sale with 12 being white or orange with Tartan, only two were original colour which is a shame but understood in the sense as the white has the bond theme and the orange really lends to the tartan interior with orange carpets and does look superb.
Most of the cars were restored as we all know at great expense, again they command high prices but how many actually sell as again I watch them come and go.

Unfortunately the Early Esprit market has been taken from the enthusiast and hit rich boys toys territory so the S3 and Turbos are where the enthusiast scene sits mostly unless older purchases.

It will be interesting watching the future market as from my recent comms with owners an awful lot of people are about to sell to release funds.

The S2 at U.K. Sportscars has had the lower wings modified, Steve at SJ sells the panels, I get why it was done to give the S1 look although a S2 should stay a S2 I think and why turbo kitted S1 or S2’s lose there desirability to some extent or certainly some considerable value.

I think if you can afford to just relax and forget about the market just sit tight and ride whatever storm hits ( hopefully not too bad).

All this is subjective as we can’t see the future or where car trends will go, 80’s/90’s hot hatches are just that at the moment rising quickly as the next generation come through.

Dave :) 

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Do or do not, there is no try! 

 

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Yes exactly that @LOTUSMAN33

I've found that when looking to complete my S1 that prices do not reflect the work involved (I've ran a business for 20 years, and I know time, materials and skill costs). Unfortunately for me the cost or S1 work reflect the rich boy market. With those folk willing to pay over the odds for work to be done.

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@Fridge they might be willing to pay over the odds due to (1) being time poor and (2) not having the skills/tools/place to do the work themselves.

It's all relevant and some people are busy earning money to pay for their toys, but that does not make them "rich boys". Just like the people who are prepared to do the work themselves are "poor boys".

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

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David, agree with you, I’ve owned a few S1’s and a couple JPS. The restoration costs were high then but far more expensive with parts these days. The quality of cars available is showing the investment people have applied making a restored car very different from a cosmetically good vehicle.

Buyers need to be wise and it’s better to pay the extra upfront rather than wear the bills later, always view the chassis and mechanics, many though prefer to do work themselves even with limited abilities hence why this forum has grown some really accomplished restorers.

I’ve seen lots of cars trying to hit restored car values which look great from paint and interior until on the ramp and absolutely rusted below.

25 years of Lotus and especially Esprit ownership certainly dishes out a few hard lessons 😁
 

Dave :) 

 

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Do or do not, there is no try! 

 

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@C8RKH you seem to be implying that I am not earning money to pay for my "toys", which is probably an oversight in your hasty response. The point I am making is that, which I have hard evidence for incidentally, is that I have seen a price hike for certain work on a seemingly rarer car, that otherwise would be markedly cheaper on a different model. The only reason I can see is that the market has supported it. Note: I work in an industry closely associated with marketing, and understand what's often at play in these circumstances.

It's sort of analogous to Audi charging at least £10,000 more for an Audi A6 over the same spec Audi A4, due in the main part that the market supports that price point. Not the work, materials or additional development and marketing costs of the slightly larger vehicle. I have had this described to me direct by Ford's marketing about their own product line.

@LOTUSMAN33 I think you need to read my restoration thread .....

 

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29 minutes ago, Fridge said:

reflect the rich boy market. With those folk willing to pay over the odds for work to be done

Actually, if you re-read what I said you will see you are totally wide of the mark and have maybe reacted in haste. I was responding specifically to your remark above which inferred that people who "pay over the odds" are rich boys - at no point do I imply YOU are a rich boy, a poor boy, a toy boy or any other boy. In fact I don't refer to YOU in my response at all - just rich and poor boys.

You were doing the labelling. But let's not fall out about it.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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7 hours ago, LOTUSMAN33 said:

 

I’ve seen lots of cars trying to hit restored car values which look great from paint and interior until on the ramp and absolutely rusted below.

 

 

This 100%, I looked at quite a few JPS esprits before buying mine (I took a lotus expert along with me). Some looked great but a quick look underneath showed some serious issues. The buyers of these will need to part with serious dough at somepoint.

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On 27/05/2020 at 20:41, LOTUSMAN33 said:

Maybe before what’s coming Neil although some of these cars have been for sale over a year so looks unlikely.

The Silver S2 which eventually sold for £7800 on eBay in original condition with all its bits was a good benchmark for restoration cases now.

I like the black one U.K. Sportscars have the most and was tempted to get someone local to check it out.

The white car looks good just shame about the interior.
The gold one is really nice just £9k over priced to tempt me I think, £25k for a very good example seems about right with restored cars commanding a premium if done well.

The JPS seems to have hit S1 money now 😢

Dave :) 

The black S2 has been around for about a year...up for private sale twice and at two auctions.

I went to see it at kings lynn and it made 18.6k if I recall - but it wasn’t particularly impressive (see the eBay/for sale section on here)

looks far better now in the photos but you never can tell, still tho a good looking esprit none the less

 

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Cheers - jim

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Thanks for all the replies!

One poster asked what was wrong with my black S2, it went a few years ago as part exchange for a Porsche (we had kids on the way and reality struck me that without a 2+2, my sports car days were temporarily over!)

I ran the S2 alongside an SE for around four years, my Esprit ownership in total was around 10 years (which equates to several lifetimes in Lotus years and I hope qualified me as some kind of enthusiast!)

They were everyday cars at one point in my ownership. The car I miss the most is the S2 though.

I really wanted an S1 but was guided in the early days to an S3 by Graham Arnold, so compromised on the S2 which was generally reliable in my ownership experience, as much as ‘78 car can be.

I asked at the time on here about doing the same to my car as the UK Sports Cars S2, but consensus was the cost to create a hybrid would leave me with neither vehicle, so either buy the correct car or live with it as it was. I am a real dyed in the wool Bond nerd, and an approximate S1 would suit me just fine (I’m not embarrassed to admit this!)

I saw the UK car and something about the interior seems familiar. I think it may be my old S2 and someone has basically performed the conversion on the car that I wanted to do. It wore a private plate under my ownership that came with the car and the dealer stripped it at sale, so I can’t check if the car was mine.

Ive called UK with a view to checking back through the records.

In another admission, what first drew my eye was the door speaker surrounds, the PO to me had built these in during his refit of the car! They worked pretty well but weren’t pretty!

If by coincidence this is my old car, I may be interested, but need to gauge what the works entailed and if the cars value supersedes my old emotional attachment to it. Would still love an S1 though, so regardless was interested to know peoples thoughts, thank you for all the replies!

 

Car sold this week BTW, dealer is kindly checking if it was my old car.....

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15 minutes ago, JonSE said:

Car sold this week BTW, dealer is kindly checking if it was my old car.....

That white S2 was changed from black to white in 2018 and at some point has had the plate changed according to carbaba.co.uk and it's had 17 owners. That's changed hands quite a few times.

Edited by Paul Coleman
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Lotus Esprit [meaning] a 1:1 scale Airfix kit with a propensity to catch fire

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