George Floyd

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

A terrible thing happened to this man a week ago, but is all this global outcry and protest warranted? Why is the UK getting involved? Did US cities stage protests the last time a black man died in UK police custody? Doubt it. What have Premier League footballers got to do with it? Why are TV and Radio channels here having special “Blackout Tuesday” events? Haven’t we got enough problems of our own at the moment? Having mass rallies about this in the current climate just seems ridiculous to me. It will cause a lot more harm, than good.

[Barrykearley]

Utterly stupid and ridiculous.

all I see is “people of colour” looting shops and causing thousands of pounds and dollars worth of damage - well done for proving many people’s views to be correct. Folks in the uk getting involved is stupid. Typical left wing liberal brigade sadly. Some of the YouTube footage of folks saying cities should burn in the London demo frankly is evidence that should be used to jail these imbeciles for a very long time under terrorism laws.

for the record - what occurred to George Flyod was disgraceful. Sadly however the police are trained in this sort of restraint. Maybe that’s the issue and it should be banned.

[Bibs]

This thread could get very emotive so it will be very closely monitored. 

Also, in Chicago

[C8RKH]

There is no excuse and justification for the rioting and protests at this level. What happened is appalling and the Police need to be held to account. But that does not mean citizens can rampage around and destroy the lives and livelihoods of totally unrelated law abiding citizens. Actually, unlike Barry, what I saw on the news this morning was a high proportion of white women protesting. It seems to me that increasingly we are seeing this part of society almost revel in protests!

To be clear. If that was MY Lotus dealership (or my shop, or my home etc). And I was there when people broke in to do damage I'd have shot the bastards as I would be in fear of my life and so self preservation instincts would have kicked in.

To reiterate. Shocking what happened to the poor man. But equally shocking that people think this sort of response is justified in any way.. 

[pete]

Showing their true colours

[Chillidoggy]

Oooof!

[yeller77]

What's really sad is how the whole movement is being hijacked by so many others with agendas. Half of the rioters have a cell in one hand and brick in the other trying to get their 15 minutes of social media fame. People indiscriminately destroying property of those still trying to get their businesses going after the COVID-19 hit now having to start again, all in the name of "protest." One building here that was busted out and looted housed a rehabilitative supply in one side and an autism non-profit in the other. Collateral damage for being located a few blocks from the police station. Tone-deaf celebrities tweeting from their Malibu mansions about how awful the world is, how compassionate they are, and how everyone should think and feel (no news there). No one seems to feel legitimized unless they are outraged and can display it at the expense of rational thought. Mobs shouting for "justice." Last I checked homicide was already a crime no matter how it's perpetrated or by whom, but it still has to be charged, and the prosecutor has to do his/her job to dot the i's and make sure the arrest and conviction can stick otherwise it's all for naught, caught on video or not. Hate crime laws and civil rights violations are already a thing and can be piled on. What happened to Mr. Floyd was horrific but what the mobs are doing is almost guaranteeing a series of mistrials or the inability to sit an impartial jury. What will they say about justice then? Doubtful anyone will admit their hand in it, just keep on blaming "the system" or the president. "Justice" is now the buzzword for give the mob what they want as if all the cops and anyone not "protesting" is evil, yet an application of the same generalizations that we're supposed to be avoiding.  Maddening. I'd rather be attacked by cows, at least they know BS when they see it.

[Bibs]

Is it just me or is the 'taking the knee' thing a bit ironic bearing in mind the poor chap died as a Police Officer knelt on his neck? 

[C8RKH]

It's just complete and utter bullshit @Bibs to be honest. It is the fcuking mindless younger generation who get sucked up by the "tribe" thing. I'm sure many of them have no idea whatsoever about why they are doing it, just herd mentality at it's finest.

Oh, and how ironic that at a "demonstration" today it was an emergency worker who was set upon and beaten up by the protesters - so what's it now, it's ok to be reckless and endanger someone else's life whilst protesting about a life lost through recklessness. Don't get me started on the irony in that.

It's a bloody job I'm not in a position of power as I'd have sent in the police on horses with huge batons and fcuk the lot of them!

I guess I'm just too bloody tolerant!

[Francisco Franco]

 

Perhaps those that seem to despise the “ white run western democracies ” ( blacks and whites) should take a leaf out of the Jews book and have the gumption to form their own state.... plenty of room in Africa.

 

 

[C8RKH]

Bit harsh @Francisco Franco.   

I think we do need to have a proper debate about and around racism but just as there are many who refuse to accept it is an issue, there are many who seem to revel in a state of almost martyrdom about how life is unfair to them due to their race/colour.  What I find strange is that for each of those in their perpetual state of martyrdom there are an equal number who have got on with their lives and have hugely successful careers whether in the arts, in professional jobs, in managerial positions, in sport etc. So just like with every one, regardless of colour and race, you can either sit around proclaiming how unfair life is or you can get off your arse and make the best of it.

 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

I just think the whole hysterical global reaction thing is completely out of proportion with what took place. One man was pinned down by a policeman and tragically died as a result. Take it to Court and get justice. That’s what the judicial system is for. Are we going to have mass demonstrations every time someone around the world is killed? What about the 388,616 people who have died globally so far from CV-19, thanks to whatever was allowed to happen in Wuhan? Why no demonstrations about that?

[C8RKH]

33 minutes ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Are we going to have mass demonstrations every time someone around the world is killed?

Probably, as long as they are not white. As white lives don't matter as much to some as they think all white people are privileged it seems!

[Francisco Franco]

Interesting point about demonstrating about Wuhan and they way the Chinese state have handled it. Australia has been vocal with criticism  and China responded with veiled threats. I believe well over 100 countries have expressed in interest to join with Australia  in pursuing China, let’s see if anything comes of it. Interestingly the only other country's leader to openly criticise China is Trump..... and interestingly enough every time he raises valid points (which his opponents/critics are too scared to talk about) he is declared racist. 
Seems familiar

[BatMobile]

I think this sums it up nicely. If I really have to explain why then to be honest you are part of the problem. 

[C8RKH]

I get that fully @BatMobile and depending on where you are in the world, and your race, you could be the colour that means you get victimised or singled out and yes, in some cases, killed! So, do we suggest that everyone just protests the injustice in the world all the time?

What pisses me off is that in this instance it is a US death, in the US, by US domestic law enforcement and so as far as I am concerned it is a domestic US issue and they need to get their house in order and sort, what I view as institutional racism in many parts of the country, out once and for all. There is no place for racism at all in 2020. However, when emergency services personnel in the UK become victims of violence from people protesting in the UK then maybe I also don't have to explain the position to you. Yes they "just need our help" but I am sure that is not the help they really want nor need as it undermines their cause.

It's tragic what has happened. It truly is, but the lawlessness that has followed, not just in the US, can never be justified by the acts of violence and destruction we are seeing.

[BatMobile]

I agree but I also suspect you are a logical and rational person who treats everyone equally until they give you a reason not to. 

Sadly many in the world are not and whilst this movement started as a US situation it has now grown into a wider realisation of the issues causing it. If that triggers change and ultimately makes anyone being racist an absolute pariah then I'm all for it. 

there will always be those that want to watch the world burn and will use any excuse to do such a thing but that's why the rest of us have to stay on point and not let the message get diluted. 

[C8RKH]

I disagree re "has now grown into a wider realisation of the issues causing it". Racism has been around, I would strongly suspect, since the earliest incarnations of humans living in tribes. If you ain't from my tribe, or don't look like me then you are not worthy etc... 

To me this is just a current trendy populist view that suggests that the current protesters are highlighting something we didn't already know, fully understand or appreciate or had been educated about. Was the work of Martin Luther King,  Malcolm X and Juliette Hampton-Morgan all for nothing when it came to highlighting the injustice and institutional racism, in this instance, of some parts of the US.

I get where you are coming from Alastair. But this is 2020. We lost 20m human lives in World War II. That was basically a world war about race. We had the huge movements in the US in the 50's, 60's and into the 70's and protests that highlighted on a world stage the injustice that some parts of society had to deal with (let's not even start to talk about the racism and injustice to the indigenous Indian population of the US who have been literally stripped of everything). If after all of this, these people protesting in the UK, who I suspect to be a mixture of the always angry and white, entitled middle class anti-ists, didn't also realise the truth of the situation then there really is no hope for this generation. 

I think we are coming from the same place Alastair. I strongly oppose the actions of those people in the UK and cannot see a true justification for it.

[pete]

Probably not relevant but he had covid19

[BatMobile]

@C8RKH we are on the same page and I don’t disagree with you. Race or religion has caused pretty much all the major issues in the world!

just because it’s always been around doesn’t mean at some point we shouldn't confront it and begin to remove it from society. Today’s generation are different, gay marriage is the perfect example. To think gay people couldn’t be married or have kids is just mind boggling and I hope at some point we all look at racism the same way.

i understand your perspective, however I haven’t been a black person living in the U.K. so don’t know enough about what it’s really like to be able to comment on whether it’s justified or not. 

I just hope tolerance and acceptance shine through along with balance. The worst thing that can happen is some over compensation as that will just lead to its own issues.

[Barrykearley]

Seeing some of the videos of dire behaviour on the internet of protests in the last few days frankly does nothing for the cause. Those involved in this should hang their heads in shame. 

[Bazza 907]

Yes they should, but the overwhelming majority who are protesting peacefully should hold their heads up high.

[Barrykearley]

The sad fact is this gentleman, whom was unquestionably unlawfully killed, was in a position where he had broken the law and caused himself to be arrested.  This is an extreme example - but we see this time and time again in the uk where folks scream police racism.

We need a proper full and frank addressing of cultural issues in the uk. It’s not a simple black vs white issue - it’s cultural and deeper sense of entitlement, rights and attitudes. I’m very sad to see we can largely ignore many things and focus just on the colour of skin this issue is far more complex.

[tim_marra]

I don't think the punishment fitted the crime though?

[C8RKH]

I don't think anyone would disagree with you there Tim.