George Floyd

[Barrykearley]

No most certainly not. There are some child sexual exploitation cases where the punishment would be absolutely fitting.

[Barrykearley]

1 hour ago, Bazza 907 said:

Yes they should, but the overwhelming majority who are protesting peacefully should hold their heads up high.

I’m not so sure. Certainly not seen any examples of responsible social distancing in the crowds. Still I suppose the nhs can just suck it up.

[Bazza 907]

There was one today on the Long Walk at Windsor,  The people taking part were social distancing. No trouble, it won't make the news but it happened.

Not saying you're wrong or I'm right, just that perhaps occasionally we should question our assumptions. 

 

 

 

 

[snowrx]

It's hard not to contrast the law enforcement reaction to well-armed (white) militias occupying state capitals and yelling right in stoic officers faces, vs that to a (black) drunk with a counterfeit $20.  One gets to go home and post about the evils of the government overreach on their favorite media site, the other gets 3 carloads of LEO's and casual murder.

Violence to your person and your civil rights, and abuse of your neighborhoods is overlooked for generations, but damage some property and here comes the Military Police to clear the streets at any cost. 

I don't excuse the idiots that seem to rush to mayhem when given the opportunity, but there's well founded anger here in the US of A, and we need to address some root causes, our governance and our priorities.  Not sure how we'll get there, or confident that we will, but I hope some good comes of all this strife.

[C8RKH]

To get there in the US then normal citizens need to counter and attack the deep seated racism that some Americans have. Need to stop blaming Governments and start shunning friends, colleagues, associates and even family members who spout racist bile, including bad humoured jokes etc. People have the power to make it clear that racist behaviour is not normal and not to be tolerated.

Small changes in attitude and behaviour from millions of people will bring the change required far faster than relying on Government.

 

 

[C8RKH]

15 hours ago, BatMobile said:

I agree but I also suspect you are a logical and rational person

Really? Have you not read my posts? I think most people think I'm certifiable at least and a danger to animals and myself at best! :)

But some just think I'm a @@@@........

[mayevora]

35 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

But some just think I'm a @@@@........

......with a nice lotus 😁😜

 

I do wonder how the American protests will end? - Will they fizzle out or will the Army really get involved possibly with the result or more injuries or worse. The protests (any protests) are so much easier to organise and coordinate than they would have been 20 years ago down to the ease of social media. There is almost too much going on with this topic and could easily segment into so many separate discussions/posts - Murder/Manslaughter Color/Race, Police Brutality, Demonstrations/Demonstrators, Mindless Rioters/Hangers on, Covid distancing not happening ect ect.

The quicker the guilty Police Officers are sentenced the better.

 

[Chillidoggy]

42 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Really? Have you not read my posts? I think most people think I'm certifiable at least and a danger to animals and myself at best!

But some just think I'm a @@@@........

I see an opening for a TLF poll...………………..

[jonwat]

18 hours ago, BatMobile said:

This needs an extra line 

Ninety per cent of US blacks killed are killed by fellow blacks.

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by jonwat

[march]

Then why don't they get behind the banner 'All Lives Matter' - a bit more inclusive don't you think.

[Barrykearley]

I wasn’t sure you were even allowed to use the word black in that context anymore - they are people of colour. What would I know - I’m just a person of no colour with my non discript shade privilege 

[DarrylV8]

 I don’t remember an out pouring of anti racism marches after Lee Rigby was murdered in London by two extremely racist idiots.

[Mysterae]

The way the US gov and the police have handled it is despicable. The protests are turning in to as much about police brutality for the protesters and control and suppress for the police. I'm surprised no one has mentioned the unbelievable behaviour of the police there.

Some of the videos are sickening and show actions that only add fuel to the fire of the protesters. Only a few examples: A young man standing a distance away from the protest sniped to the head with a rubber bullet (rubber coated ball bearing). An already subdued man shot to the spine at point blank range with a beanbag round. A 75 year old man gets in the way of the advancing line of police and gets pushed; he falls and cracks his head open with blood coming out of his ear. A man driving through with his pregnant girlfriend in the car stops to shout at the police about getting hit with a tear gas canister; the police then open fire on the car. People standing on their porch watching the military (home guard) go past get fired upon with laser suppression rounds when they don't go indoors. Even the press aren't immune from them with many being shot at and arrested.

America is a wonderful country and has achieved so much but it's broken in so many ways. I fear for it's future and I don't even live there.

 

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, DarrylV8 said:

 I don’t remember an out pouring of anti racism marches after Lee Rigby was murdered in London by two extremely racist idiots.

Of course not. He was white and a british service man willing to put his life on the line to defend the citizens of this country. Why would his life matter? 

[C8RKH]

@Mysterae America is no more broken than many other countries when it comes down to policing riots and mass disorder.

France - oh, it's Tuesday, then it must be another protest and riot about nothing really in particular and lots of innocents get hurt

China - well, they use the cotton gloves and fluffy feather cotton dusters to suppress their rioters

Germany - police brutally, water cannon, tear gas and rubber bullets. Oooh. Lovely.

UK - Plenty of riots after an armed gangster, with a rap sheet as long as your own, got shot. Plenty innocents got injured, and Police, oh and we use horses, riot teams, batons, rubber bullets and tear gas...

Isreal - fcuk the rubber bullets, send in the troops with their real bullets, apache attack helicopters, Abrams tanks and 50calibre machines. Fcuk yes, no messing about there!

Russia - brutal point down by forve then we will hunt you all over the world and kill you an d your family with poison. Just cuddly...

America today. Hong Kong tomorrow. Beijing Sunday. London Monday. Paris - well, it is Tuesday...

Saudi - oh, it's Wednesday. Bring out the protestors and quite literally it's off with their heads

Where should we go next?  How about Rion and the Favella's for real state funded brutality? Venezuala and Caracass.

 

[geartox]

I don't understand what people expect from cultures and societies becoming more and more violent. sow the wind, reap the whirlwind (not sure of translation ;-)) . good luck in this world mess. 

 

[Mysterae]

@C8RKH I see your point about how different countries handle a riot and looting, but peaceful protests? 

You could say after watching the above that it was an unfortunate accident and he lost his balance. But police are trained in restraint and in the appropriate amount of force to apply in a given situation. This was not it given the level of threat. They'd rather hold the police line than go back and help the man. That about sums up the entire situation, Overforce. Just like with George Floyd.

[C8RKH]

A lot of the above I posted @Mysterae was the response of governments to peaceful protests, it's just after the intervention they ain't so peaceful like!!!    :)

 

[Advantage]

4 hours ago, DarrylV8 said:

 I don’t remember an out pouring of anti racism marches after Lee Rigby was murdered in London by two extremely racist idiots.

 

2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Of course not. He was white and a british service man willing to put his life on the line to defend the citizens of this country. Why would his life matter? 

Nonsense comment and reply teetering on the Tommy Robinson level of idiocy. Can neither of you not see the not-so-subtle difference between the two incidents? Lee Rigby's extremist killers were caught, tried and imprisoned for life (min 45 years) within a handful of months of the attack. Investigation of his death was swift and thorough. Although it won't bring him back or offer even a tiny piece of solace to his family, (legal) justice was served. 

Floyd was killed by policemen who weren't even going to face any significant disciplinary action least of all a trial for their actions until the video of their actions went viral. They were going to get away with murder. Similar things happened with the deaths of Philando Castile, Terence Crutcher, Michael Brown and Alton Sterling. In these cases the officers involved were not convicted of any criminal offence. Floyd's death was the final straw for many Americans.

Rigby's mother has just had to issue a statement requesting people stop making comparisons with Floyd's death, so how about you respect the wishes of the Rigby family and don't try to use his name to stir up division and outrage? 

[Mysterae]

@C8RKH I agree many other countries are as broken, but the USA is meant the leaders and hold themselves above all others.

Imagine if this was your house.

It's almost as if they want the situation to deteriorate.

[C8RKH]

@advantage - morale outrage. Quite right.  

I would counter that we did not see mass marches and protests, or silly bended knees etc in other countries. So WHY do we need to have the protests here?  This is an issue that is internal for the US. The US and her citizens need to deal with this once and for all.

How about some morale outrage for the people over here, emergency workers, who were caught up in the violence over her, for something that happened over 4k miles away. That's a morale outrage to me.

I guess we will agree to disagree and I have been very clear on here that what happened to that poor man could ever be justified and yes the perpetrators should be punished. Although from my limited knowledge it was one police officer who kneeled on his neck and yet four are I believe being prosecuted. A witch hunt maybe, or where they all implicit in this? I certainly don't know but time will tell us I guess.

[Advantage]

I suggest you first watch the video of Floyd's murder, then educate yourself as to why some people think that Black Lives Matter. It will save you looking silly. 

[Barrykearley]

I’ve seen the video. It’s clearly wrong.

however - the USA police aren’t exactly known for their gentle restraint methods. It’s worth looking at this fellas background as he was probably pretty well known to the officers involved. The one policeman was indeed white - one was mixed race, one Asian and another non white officer. 
 

All lives matter 

[Advantage]

Ah, so because someone has a past history for which they've served their time it's ok to murder them? Is that the logic you're going for? I hope not as it's a fairly lame excuse. The police still don't have a mandate to murder, even in the USA. Your argument falls at the first hurdle, but I don't really understand why you're even attempting to defend the actions of the police involved in this incident. 

The All Lives Matter is mantra is just white whining and whining from a position of privilege brought about by nothing more significant than skin colour.  Aren't you fortunate to be able to do that without being persecuted for it, let alone having a knee pressing down on your neck. Waaa waaa waaa, what poor oppressed middle aged white guys we are. We have it so bad in this world. 

White privilege is very real. It's sometimes obvious, it's sometimes subtle. But it's always there. If you can't see it or appreciate that then perhaps you enable it. 

It's not enough to be non-racist, it's time we were all actively anti-racist - and a handful of replies on this thread are anything but. 

[Barrykearley]

At what point in any of my posts above have I said it’s ok to murder folks ? I’m confused as I most certainly haven’t.

The logic you are using here is very common. Actually though more and more it’s black privilege which is prevalent with BAME only shortlists for some jobs. Is that right?  White privilege - ive heard this argument many times. Explain that to my neighbour in the rented property whos never worked a day in his life. Explain it to the young white girls whom have been sexually exploited by cultural gangs?  I honestly couldn’t care less about the colour of someone’s skin - it’s not important. What is important is that they are decent example of humanity.

The tragedy is people allowing their whole futures to be defined by skin colour because they are told it’s a problem. I’m afraid the cold simple facts of life is it is the individuals responsibility to make a decent fist of their own life. It is not for the state or others to do this.

 

One thing is for absolute certain - break the law and you will attract attention of the authorities. For some it’s very obvious the skin colour is a massive factor as in the uk the police do not wish to upset the applecart by addressing certain criminality.