George Floyd

[C8RKH]

@advantage - I fear that in your rush to apologise for your position of white privilege you are in danger of missing the point, and indeed, looking silly!

Firstly. I am struggling, on again reading through this thread, to find a PoV expressed to justify the treatment of this human being and the very sad outcome. I'm also struggling to see anyone trying to justify or defend the actions of the Police involved  So I believe I am on very safe ground when I say we are all shocked and appalled by what has occurred.

Secondly, you seem to be focusing on racism as a white on black issue. This, if correct, is an appallingly misinformed viewpoint both as an observation on the issues in the US and in the UK. Indeed, the world is full of racism. Racism exists everywhere. It is not dictated by nor bound by skin colour. Being white affords no more privilege than any other colour. We all feel, breathe, eat, shit and bleed the same. The US is not as a nation institutionally racist. Damn, they've even had a black President. I'm waiting to celebrate the day we have a non white Prime Minister.

The issue is complex. In many walks of life in the US, people of colour (all colours I might add) have had the opportunity to achieve and succeed and be rewarded. I would argue their achievements have been made harder, but they have pushed on through to the top in sport, business, the military, the professions and politics. Their achievements make America a richer place. But their lives are no more precious, matter no more, nor less, than anyone elses.

Also in America, just like here in the UK and elsewhere, we have people of colour, all colours which shock of shock includes WHITE who are living a disenfranchised, tough life and are the subject of discrimination and racism and the objects of hate, fear and oppression in their environments. Substance abuse. Bad parenting. Gangs. Violence. It does not choose victims by race or colour. It's victims are often the result of social economic policies and the choices these people themselves have made. Of poor political decisions. Etc.

You missed the point re the Lee Rigby postings. It is not a tit for tat response. It is not a direct comparison in any way. The point though was to highlight the reaction to situations and how they were percieved.  A white boy gets set upon by an Asian gang in Birmingham, killed. It gets a mention in the press but the next day nothing. A black kid gets set upon in London by a white gang and it inflames racial tension, provokes outrage at the injustice, and potentially riots and outpourings of grief. Indeed, racial grooming gangs are highlighted in places like Rochdale and it is protested that as a racial attack on the race of the perpatrators and inference is that the female victims were just white trash. Hmmm. So where is the actual racism in that?  Extreme cases I agree. But where are the apologisers and the protests?

Racism is colour blind. White on white. Black on black. White on black. Black on white etc  it's a disease as old as civilisation itself. Apologise if you want. But if you were a white person living in parts of Africa or the middle east. You might have a different perspective.

So by all means, if you want to call my views silly, then fair enough. It's your view and you are entitled and privileged to be able to express it. But if I find your standing on the soap box apologising for your white privilege a little self indulgent and offensive, then I am sure you will respect my equally valid view. After all. We all matter. Equally.

I hope this was a respectful posts and wish this thread to remain, respectful. But that does not mean we all need to agree.

 

 

 

 

[Barrykearley]

If the posts I’ve seen about this chaps criminal record is correct - then I simply find it very very difficult to leap to the defence of a convicted rapist whom pointed a gun at a pregnant woman’s stomach.
 

My opinion is this is yet another case of the far left jumping on a bandwagon before correct analysis of the facts. 
 

He still should not have died at the hands of the authorities - in exactly the same manner that others of all different skin colours have. All lives matter. This restraint technique is clearly not fit for purpose.

[Bazza 907]

I wonder if this is an appropriate time to close this thread?

[C8RKH]

@Bazza 907 - why so quick to censor a conversation that whilst difficult is being undertaken in  a respectful way? You can always hit the "ignore thread" option and allow the conversation to continue, in a respectful way.

[pete]

 

[pete]

3 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

If the posts I’ve seen about this chaps criminal record is correct - then I simply find it very very difficult to leap to the defence of a convicted rapist whom pointed a gun at a pregnant woman’s stomach.
 

My opinion is this is yet another case of the far left jumping on a bandwagon before correct analysis of the fac

But no mention there that one of the policemen also had a record

[Barrykearley]

Re the LBC video - Same argument could be twisted and turned many different ways. Especially in regards to women’s rights and rape.

In relation to a policeman having a record -  we simply do not know enough about any of the circumstances as yet. Trial by social media isn’t helpful - but I’m sure In the run of time that the facts will out.

you simply cannot have balanced debate it seems.

 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

15000 demonstrating in the Coronavirus hotbed of Manchester. Plenty more elsewhere. Thanks for helping to destroy the economy and for killing people, guys, I hope you think it was worth it.

[Bibs]

Central London. Idiots. The only thing that'll change from it is the rate of deaths from coronavirus. 

 

[comem47]

A 1980 movie called "Lathe of Heaven " in which the main character has dreams that alter reality, solved the race problem this way

https://youtu.be/OxsraF6bprQ?t=258

 

 

 

[mdw]

Just what we need at current time.    I guess there is a chance of 30-40 in that crowd with covid 19.  Even with face masks which wont do a lot there  is a lot of close contact there for a number of  hours.   Sadly it probably wont be these people that will be really ill but their relatives, shop staff, nurses etc

[PaulCP]

Yep, all these protesters clearly don’t think that either theirs’ or anyone else’s life’s matter In their haste to jump on to a bandwagon 

[Barrykearley]

They will just Bitch and moan that corona virus is racist - since it appears to affect them disproportionately.

ironically - law breaking does have consequences 

[Dan E]

I have just been watching Sky News, so we have all just spent 3 Months in lockdown and now this, obviously what happened is completely and utterly wrong but what @PaulCP says is 100% correct! I have literally been cringing! Also it was in the USA not here and not by our Police so WTF! 

[C8RKH]

Spot on @Dan E

Lockdown till xmas thanks to these muppets? Just watch those numbers spike.

[PaulCP]

Just seen a clip on Facebook, they’re  now throwing bottles at our officers and their horses.

Two weeks ago we all clapped for our emergency services.

This isn't about racism or police brutality in America, it’s the usual demonstrations taken over by extremists whose only intent is to knock the system.

Our country seriously needs to get a grip.

There can never be a politically correct justification for breaking the law.

There can never be a selective approach to the application of the rule of law.

[Barrykearley]

Funny just how the tone of the thread has changed in less than 24hrs @C8RKH

[C8RKH]

Yup.

[Barrykearley]

Just watching Billy Connolly on bbc iPlayer. A quote of note - “there something quite facist about being told to apologise for having an opinion that someone doesn’t agree with“

[Francisco Franco]

 I notice D-day anniversary was more or less forgotten.

good job we won otherwise these demonstrators would have ended up in a concentration camp.

Those soldiers lives mattered too
 

     

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

To be honest, I think the demonstrators have done their cause more harm than good. The very fact that they are recklessly breaking lockdown rules by staging mass protests and thereby risking the lives of themselves and anyone they come into contact with, is weakening their support and creating a new division. There is a time and a place for peaceful protest about many issues and this clearly isn’t it. The supporters of many other just causes understand and accept this by not holding demonstrations, so why should these protesters be allowed special treatment?

[SFO]

folks are demonstrating because there is nothing else to do 😁

[Barrykearley]

According to the BBC the crowds in London have a speaker paying tribute to this chap - remember that - paying tribute to a rapist. What next - Ian Brady?

[tim_marra]

Unlikely. George Floyd was apparently trying to turn his life around. Awful crime for which he served his time. None of which justifies the manner of his death in the hands of the police which was disgraceful at best.

[C8RKH]

I agree. Dreadful. But then so is the behaviour and acts of the protestors. Both the killing of GF and the rioting, looting, etc should be condemned.