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Artie

Disappointment?

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Jon,

I've been listening! Robin has helped a bunch and pointed me in the right direction. Marcus' expertise has been invaluable! I am quite pleased with the power production. I am not in search of monster power figures and I really love the sound of the Esprit 4 pot! The car is quite rapid and accelerates nicely. I shall post more results when the dyno shop gets the dyno working properly.

Thanks.That was good to hear that I could help :thumbsup:

Marcus is right about the dyno No will variate a lot.Thats why I try to do the G-tech test runs in the same place and temp.

If you want more pwr now, you will need a bigger turbo.I gess your turbine is the limiting factor now.

You can get higer No using racefuel with leaner mixure that will produce more power with less exhaust.

I will try to put my car on the dyno before next summer.I gona do some more mods to my engine first...hehe..

Gona put in iron liners and new cam++


89 Lotus Esprit Turbo S

Very fast road and trackday car.

GT3076R+ a lot of other modifications.

http://lotusespritwo...inZzdningz.html

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Yeah, the exhaust turbine is limiting the outlet flow. I will remove my circuitious exhaust system and replace it with a straight thru pipe and test that too. I have a few tricks but all in all I was looking for 300whp which I am very close to. I will post results once we get to that point. I have some SE sills on the way for install and will hopefully be ordering some sport 300 wheel arch extensions shortly too. More body work coming soon!

Artie


89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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Paul,

I have not done this yet, but will when I pull the parts off to powder coat them this fall/winter. I will probably port the compressor outlet also as this can aid in smoothing the airflow out of the turbo. Did this on my RX7 and it worked so well I had to port my wastegate opening by almost a full 1/2 inch to prevent severe boost creep.

Artie


89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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that was one thing John Hazzard did - ported through to TB inlets and the oversize chargecooler... woudl explain the strong torque figures.. jst imagine if it had fired those secondary injectors.. lol

I loved looking in the box at the Chevy and the MSD stuff - so few wires to mess up.. lovely.


It's alive.. alive!!!..

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Yeah, the exhaust turbine is limiting the outlet flow. I will remove my circuitious exhaust system and replace it with a straight thru pipe and test that too. I have a few tricks but all in all I was looking for 300whp which I am very close to. I will post results once we get to that point. I have some SE sills on the way for install and will hopefully be ordering some sport 300 wheel arch extensions shortly too. More body work coming soon!

Artie

Artie,

the exhaust turbine is the hold back, with a clipped or enlarged housing/wheel the back pressure is less, spool-up comes much later( hence reason to higher the revlimiter) and build-up temperatures in the exhaust manifold are lowered significantly. They are lowered so far that the manifold does not glow any more..... :whistle:

Talking to Steffen at R&B, after him playing with the new double BB turbo,is tempting me to consider that as a follow up mod on my stage II. Once Steffan Ertler has his car all done I got to ask him on his feedback. That car is verry yummy indeed.


Olaf S400 project www.esprits4.de

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Olaf! Sounds good to me. There is some room in the exhaust housing for some "opening" up, I may be able to get about 1/4" out of the outlet which doesn't seem like much it would be worth a go. I may do this this fall when the car is up for some other stuff.

Artie


89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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Yeah, the exhaust turbine is limiting the outlet flow. I will remove my circuitious exhaust system and replace it with a straight thru pipe and test that too. I have a few tricks but all in all I was looking for 300whp which I am very close to. I will post results once we get to that point. I have some SE sills on the way for install and will hopefully be ordering some sport 300 wheel arch extensions shortly too. More body work coming soon!

Artie

I think you are at max if its a stage 1 turbo.

I had a stage 3 from Turbo Jamie and got 345 rwhp when it was new.

And it was going down to 330rwhp after some use.And did brake after a lot of track days.

But I have only my self to claim after using the turbo above its limit for extendet time like track days.

If you are at max with your turbo now,dont expect to get it to last forever.

You will probably be better of using a stage 3 or a GT3071R.I belive they have simular spool up but the GT is rated for some 30bhp more.I got 1,4 bar at 3200rpm with the stage 3 from turbo jamie.I belive it was this with .63 turbine

http://www.mjmturbos.com/360t3t4.htm

And I paid $ 700,- with waste gate.I did port the wastgate outlet so I could veld on a 3" pipe direct from the turbo......Probably the reason for hige HP and braking the turbo but got a nice and early spool up.

If you use this with up to 345rwhp for higeway use and 330rwhp for track day use I gess you should be fine.


89 Lotus Esprit Turbo S

Very fast road and trackday car.

GT3076R+ a lot of other modifications.

http://lotusespritwo...inZzdningz.html

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Robin and Jon, thanks for the ideas! Remember though I am not going for Max HP. I'm just trying to get the systems working together correctly! I don't think I am at the limit of the turbo as she will keep making boost and hold it, I just want it to make and hold lower boost on the dyno so I can see what the power curve really looks like! The car is plenty quick for me and as I've said before I have an RX7 that I use for Track days, I don't feel my Esprit chassis and suspension are up to the task of my driving ability compared to the 7. I may decide to change the turbo at some point, but I'm happy with it right now. I will keep working with what I've got until I get it "dialed" in then move from there! Thanks for all the ideas and suggestions, I will continue to chart my progress and fill you guys in on what/how I make out.

Artie

PS Robin, did the MJM .63 turbo bolt straight up to your stock exhaust manifold? It looks like it would but just curious.

Edited by Artie

89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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Robin and Jon, thanks for the ideas! Remember though I am not going for Max HP. I'm just trying to get the systems working together correctly! I don't think I am at the limit of the turbo as she will keep making boost and hold it, I just want it to make and hold lower boost on the dyno so I can see what the power curve really looks like! The car is plenty quick for me and as I've said before I have an RX7 that I use for Track days, I don't feel my Esprit chassis and suspension are up to the task of my driving ability compared to the 7. I may decide to change the turbo at some point, but I'm happy with it right now. I will keep working with what I've got until I get it "dialed" in then move from there! Thanks for all the ideas and suggestions, I will continue to chart my progress and fill you guys in on what/how I make out.

Artie

PS Robin, did the MJM .63 turbo bolt straight up to your stock exhaust manifold? It looks like it would but just curious.

Ye it did all T3 flens will fit, but I had to modify the heatshield.The compressor was to big its the same now With the GT30R.

I got the same thing as you describe,it could not hold the boost going up on the rpm.........then I blew the turbo.I know that I had got the max out of it.....

Are you able to measure back pressure before the turbine?

The backpressure should increase ecual when raising boost.When the backpressure increases more then you increase boost you know you are pretty much at max.

Thats my experience with snowmobile 2 stoke engines with turbo.It will be the same with 4stroke engines also.


89 Lotus Esprit Turbo S

Very fast road and trackday car.

GT3076R+ a lot of other modifications.

http://lotusespritwo...inZzdningz.html

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Robin, Jon, I will redo my exhaust system first to be sure there is no restriction. The turbo will hold boost just fine, I just think there should be more power at the level of boost I am running. I have talked with Jamie at MJMturbos and I will eventually buy his super60 with a custom wheel I talked with him about which is a high velocity compressor wheel which will ensure quick spool and very good high end power.

Artie


89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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all sounds good Artie - I'm in agreement re the compressor wheel but no harm making sure - only thing being if you do the downpipe and exhaust etc then change turbo then you may end up re-doing it all over again, no?

High velocity compressor wheels.. not big on these.. usually it means they've been clipped.. clipping increases flow but usually does little for spool. If lighter material then it means it can be clipped for better flow without adding lag but not neccessarily smooth. However best to stay with a BB with a larger port for flow to run better temps and hold better peal.. only genuine high spool rate wheels being the trick titaniums ones coming out. Otherwise a dual Bb turbo is best, ceramic works the trick. I am a fan of twin scroll turbos tho and they work to good effect on 2l turbo cars.. Mitsi, MR2s etc... G-TD05 for example could be customised with plumbing. However I know you're no stranger to tubbies with your RX7 so I'll shut up.. lol

There are other options to fit the Esprit other than the Super60.. far from the last word in tubby deisgn imo.

Definitely lots to be had from porting from plenum back if not already done,. Also considering a high flow recirculating dump valve.. rather than atmospheric.. I foudn with higher boost on track that I could get turbo stall of throttle.. fluttering sound .. that does little for spool/lag. Recirculating the pressure would keep the intake fully pressuried without stalling the turbo. You can adjust the blow off on good BOVs but I now think a good recirculating system will work better on a nicely flowed/balanced set-up. I see you have an SSQ type so you may not struggle but definitely what may be perceived poor spool rate of a tubby coudl actually be turbo stall so worth bearing in mind.

Also a fatter snake-head (or 2-into-1) type down pipe to split the turbo out and wastegate for a bit longer also seems to do a lot for flow.

Edited by M Blur

It's alive.. alive!!!..

altimeter.gifsai.gif

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Jon, all good points. The compressor isn't clipped! It is a frankenstein turbo that uses a Nissan RB26DETT turbo compressor which is a narrow bladed Garrett sized compressor! The thing is fullybalanced and is a billet aluminum compressor. I will port from the plenum back this winter for some added flow as I understand this will work wonders for additional flow. I will ensure that the system works optimally with current mods before I do this so I can measure what it actually adds to the modded setup! As for BB turbos, I have installed a few of these on several cars and am not quite sold on them yet. After careful inspection of 2 of them that came off of 700+ wheel HP supra's they have failed due to heat and scouring of the shaft. I am of the belief that this is occurring because the BB's are allowing ingress of oil crystal debris caused by high temperature breakdown of the oil molecules which crystallize. The turbo's on both of these cars were both spooling near 40psi and spooled much faster than the old T72 turbo each had but didn't gain much at the upper end. I'm not convinced that adding something that gives me more small moving parts is the way I want to go, but that's another issue altogether. As for knowing turbos on the RX7, well I'm still using the stockers as they are good to near 400 whp and we're just shy of that with no need for more as I want the motor to last(which it has for 10 years now!) So I am no turbo expert but the components that make them up and what causes things to fail I am quite familiar with since I do many side projects for spare $$$! Anyway, I will update everyone once I make some adjustments to the exhaust, I will dyno a test pipe with a muffler that goes from the end of the decat pipe across the rear muffler area(with a simple single 5" round magnaflow muffler) with a turn down. Then I will dyno with my cat back muffler setup with a new outlet pipe since the shop that bent the pipe coming out of the muffler is crimp bent and gets pinched down to 1 7/8" when it turns up to meet the exhaust tip thru the lower rear valence. This is where I think she is getting restricted right now. Once I do these items, I will smooth the exhaust turbine outlet and remove a little material around the outlet opening, perhaps about 1/8" to 1/4" and probably have it Jet-Hot coated to prevent any cracking, then I'll dyno again. I'll make subtle changes and report my HP findings good or bad so we have a good idea of what's worthwhile doing and what's "snake oil"! I'll be the guinea pig for some of these items.

Artie

Edited by Artie

89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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Talking of turbos...... Mine is a T35 hybrid from turbo technics, garage says its possibly not the best for my car as i have no boost below 3K then at 3K 0.4 bar and 300 revs later a whopping 1bar which is a pretty sudden whallop of power ..... he said the turbo feels tight but may loosen off and improve this????? also think he may manage to improve it slightly with exhaust cam timing???? any thoughts?? I have a 104 and 107 cam but did not build the engine so am not sure which is where, think the 104 is the inlet, if so can anyone steer me as to where to set the cam timings?

Mark


Mark MacKenzie  Elise S2 135 Sport 

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Talking of turbos...... Mine is a T35 hybrid from turbo technics, garage says its possibly not the best for my car as i have no boost below 3K then at 3K 0.4 bar and 300 revs later a whopping 1bar which is a pretty sudden whallop of power ..... he said the turbo feels tight but may loosen off and improve this????? also think he may manage to improve it slightly with exhaust cam timing???? any thoughts?? I have a 104 and 107 cam but did not build the engine so am not sure which is where, think the 104 is the inlet, if so can anyone steer me as to where to set the cam timings?

Mark

I switched from stock to 104-104 timing, although i did only get 200 km of driving done, my buttmeter tells me there is not much signinificant change....

I thing you will be better off changing the ecu code, according to Markus and Steffen that was which made the significant changes..

i am currently running an optimized Sport 300 code ( according to Markus !) So you may want to check with him to do the trick. :question:


Olaf S400 project www.esprits4.de

__________________________________

shapeimage_1.jpg

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I switched from stock to 104-104 timing, although i did only get 200 km of driving done, my buttmeter tells me there is not much signinificant change....

I thing you will be better off changing the ecu code, according to Markus and Steffen that was which made the significant changes..

i am currently running an optimized Sport 300 code ( according to Markus !) So you may want to check with him to do the trick. :question:

Yeah, I was UNDERWHELMED with changing to both Green dot gears 104/104 timing. Don't think it made much difference. Also, not sure if "loosening" of the turbo will improve the low end spool. This is more a factor of rotational inertia and velocity from the turbo compressor. It sounds like you got a decent efficient turbo but is designed more for top end power and cooler charge temps not spool up and low boost.

Artie


89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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forget about all this talk of turbos.

I spoke to Garrett last week and they feel confident

that VNT and AVNT turbos for the consumer market

will be available early next year

I'm waiting till then...


chris

90SE

just because I don't CARE doesn't mean I don't UNDERDSTAND

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forget about all this talk of turbos.

I spoke to Garrett last week and they feel confident

that VNT and AVNT turbos for the consumer market

will be available early next year

I'm waiting till then...

Me too.

I did send a pic to artie about how it works.

I have used several of this type of turbos in my snowmobiles.Aerocharger VATN turbos.

They are incredible with that the 2 stroke engines get boost on low rpm.

Its also used pretty much in all the new hige performance diesel engines.

The main gain with this type of turbos is that you get much earlier boost with a bigger turbo.

The turbo is working over a much greater range.

I gess if we use this type of turbo on the Esprit that have capasity of 500bhp it will lower the spool up from 3500-4000rpm to about 2500-3000rpm.

It have vanes in the turbine so the exhaust gas hit the turbine wheel in the outer diameter to get earlier boost.

On boost furter up the rpm it direct the exhaust gas so it hits more in the senter of the turbine wheel (larger aspect ratio) and this gives less exhaust restiction.


89 Lotus Esprit Turbo S

Very fast road and trackday car.

GT3076R+ a lot of other modifications.

http://lotusespritwo...inZzdningz.html

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Okay, the same as in the new 997's. 911TT have this technology. Will there be a need for an electronic controller to control the direction of the nozzle in the exhaust turbine or will it do this automatically?

Artie


89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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Robin,

I thought you'd be interested in knowing, I pulled the exhaust off the car and replaced the old kinked pipe that came out of my Magnaflow muffler. The shop that I had install the muffler obviously didn't care that this was a turbo engine. The pipe was pinched down to about 1 3/4"! I will take some pics tomorrow maybe. I could fit the old pipe we cut off inside the new mandrel bent 2 1/2" pipe and there was still room inside the pipe. Now she spools quite readily and feels as though she is ready for blastoff at 2500rpm instead of 3300rpm. Also, boost hits max, comes down a tad to 1.15 then climbs rapidly back up to 1.25bar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't wait to hit the dyno again... Maybe this time the dyno will be working and my car will be working right too!!!!! It will be a few weeks as it is in the 100's this next couple of weeks.

Artie


89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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For God's sake, they had strangled your engine! ( should probably do the same to them, all this agony caused!)

Good to see you have found the needle....

Looking forward to your follow up. :)

Robin,

I thought you'd be interested in knowing, I pulled the exhaust off the car and replaced the old kinked pipe that came out of my Magnaflow muffler. The shop that I had install the muffler obviously didn't care that this was a turbo engine. The pipe was pinched down to about 1 3/4"! I will take some pics tomorrow maybe. I could fit the old pipe we cut off inside the new mandrel bent 2 1/2" pipe and there was still room inside the pipe. Now she spools quite readily and feels as though she is ready for blastoff at 2500rpm instead of 3300rpm. Also, boost hits max, comes down a tad to 1.15 then climbs rapidly back up to 1.25bar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't wait to hit the dyno again... Maybe this time the dyno will be working and my car will be working right too!!!!! It will be a few weeks as it is in the 100's this next couple of weeks.

Artie


Olaf S400 project www.esprits4.de

__________________________________

shapeimage_1.jpg

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I'm not running a stock ecu so code is not the problem, my car is running a DTA S60 ECU which i hope is currently being mapped as we speak..... results soon!!!! I'll keep y'all posted


Mark MacKenzie  Elise S2 135 Sport 

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