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On rear hub carriers


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Hi everyone,

I have a few questions regarding rear hub carriers. I've been doing research, with limited success.

As I understand, the S1/S2/S2.2 models used the same ones, what about later ones? How many iterations span the Esprit range?

Also, I'll be looking to get my hands on, hopefully, as many of the different iterations as I can for re-engineering purposes, if anyone has a spare or wouldn't mind me taking a look at their running one, I'd make it worth your while!

Thank you and every little bit of info helps!

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This is the duct. To say it's weird is an understatement! The 'tongue' bit reduces swirling flow which outweighs the increase in surface friction, reduces pressure drop, conversely increases flow rate

Hey Chris, nice to meet you! And of course, my background is in Product Design, but I've been working in a 3D printing/CNC shop in London for a few years now, and have gotten good with the owner of th

@cweeden, that's a good example of topology optimisation, an emerging design technology that uses simulation to identify an optimal geometry that meets structural requirements whilst also minimising m

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Hi @ReVerse can you tell us a little bit more about yourself (I'm interested in your engineering background if possible) and why you want to do this and how? I'm very curious since there does seem to be a need to re-stock these parts. Sorry I can't help you with info regarding the changes between the models.

I was wondering if there was a case for having these 3D printed as per the Czinger? Probably too expensive today but in a few years time this might be ideal technology for reproduction parts.

Czinger 21C – serial hypercar from a 3D printer – SUPER CAR

cheers

-Chris

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21 minutes ago, cweeden said:

Hi @ReVerse can you tell us a little bit more about yourself (I'm interested in your engineering background if possible) and why you want to do this and how? I'm very curious since there does seem to be a need to re-stock these parts. Sorry I can't help you with info regarding the changes between the models.

I was wondering if there was a case for having these 3D printed as per the Czinger? Probably too expensive today but in a few years time this might be ideal technology for reproduction parts.

Czinger 21C – serial hypercar from a 3D printer – SUPER CAR

cheers

-Chris

Hey Chris, nice to meet you! And of course, my background is in Product Design, but I've been working in a 3D printing/CNC shop in London for a few years now, and have gotten good with the owner of the place, pitched him this idea I had. He was interested and now things are really starting to pick up pace, we're just looking for a good in, like here with you guys to prove ourselves.

It's interesting you brought up the Czinger and from the picture what seems to be a generated mesh, I've been doing some generative design scripts for fun myself in Fusionn 360 and Grasshopper for a while now. I have absolutely no doubt that generative design (i.e computer generated structure around stated parameters) will become big in both legacy and future auto manufacturing, for the while, however, it's still quite expensive. What's happening now is we're going to try and find investment for a Metal X printer by Markforged, simultaneously likely the best value and most advanced metal 3d printer, for those familiar it works more like an FDM printer than your usual SLM/SLS used for metal 3d printing. We could do a generated design on our CNC machines too, but by design these are better suited for 3d printers, and if we get the Metal X it'll likely finally become more cost effective to print rather than CNC. This is the endgame - to create a library of legacy parts, all made on demand, without any price gauging or having to scour the net for 3 months, and then start introducing these "performance" parts, a perfectly optimised design made using a perfectly matched process, no waste, incredible efficiency, elegant.

What we're really doing now is trying to prove ourselves - the website will be a great step to go forward but we've got hung up on the design and I pretty much run the researching/manufacturability/business side of things on my own at the moment so progress is... well, there's a lot of it in all directions 😁 really hoping to pick up pace in the next week or so. I'm a bit all over the place here, hopefully I answered something here haha 😂

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@cweeden, that's a good example of topology optimisation, an emerging design technology that uses simulation to identify an optimal geometry that meets structural requirements whilst also minimising mass.  Organic type typologies are 'discovered' that by their nature are well suited to additive manufacture. All the major CAE software providers (e.g. Siemens, Ansys, MSC, Dassault) now offer such capabilities.

As well as structural application, it can also be applied to fluid systems. Here's an interesting example of using topology optimisation to redesign an air supply duct for (ironically) a 3D printing machine:

Minimises pressure drop as well as provides a more uniform exit velocity profile. Obvious potential application to both intake and exhaust ducting/manifold design for IC engines.

Maybe a bit above and beyond what @ReVerse has in mind, but fascinating nevertheless!

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2 minutes ago, RobinB5 said:

@cweeden, that's a good example of topology optimisation, an emerging design technology that uses simulation to identify an optimal geometry that meets structural requirements whilst also minimising mass.  Organic type typologies are 'discovered' that by their nature are well suited to additive manufacture. All the major CAE software providers (e.g. Siemens, Ansys, MSC, Dassault) now offer such capabilities.

As well as structural application, it can also be applied to fluid systems. Here's an interesting example of using topology optimisation to redesign an air supply duct for (ironically) a 3D printing machine:

Minimises pressure drop as well as provides a more uniform exit velocity profile. Obvious potential application to both intake and exhaust ducting/manifold design for IC engines.

Maybe a bit above and beyond what @ReVerse has in mind, but fascinating nevertheless!

Heh really went all out Robin, I guess I was a bit more designer than engineer with my explanations haha 😂😂

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So you've played with the Autodesk Topology Optimisation stuff @ReVerse, how did you find it? All this tech is a bit immature, but it will evolve along with the democratisation of 3D printing. To come clean, I work for Siemens in the division that develops such technology, it's brilliant stuff that will be mainstream in a few years.

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What is your background in all of this Robin?

@ReVerse I may have a pair of V8 hubs available in the not too distant future that I might be persuaded to lend as a pattern. Obviously I'd also be happy to trial the CNC result for you too. 🤣

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1 minute ago, RobinB5 said:

So you've played with the Autodesk Topology Optimisation stuff @ReVerse, how did you find it? All this tech is a bit immature, but it will evolve along with the democratisation of 3D printing. To come clean, I work for Siemens in the division that develops such technology, it's brilliant stuff that will be mainstream in a few years.

Robin, I would be lying if I'd say that I'm not jealous of you, to be able to work on technology like that is incredible, and it really blows my mind, tremendous respect 👍👍 I find the tech amazing, the user experience is a different topic but that's on Autodesk haha, I can't wait for it to go mainstream not only for optimising performance but just using it on everyday objects in my design practice. 

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Just now, cweeden said:

What is your background in all of this Robin?

@ReVerse I may have a pair of V8 hubs available in the not too distant future that I might be persuaded to lend as a pattern. Obviously I'd also be happy to trial the CNC result for you too. 🤣

Oh yes, now we're talking! 😂 In all seriousness, I'd be tremenduosly grateful if I could get my hands on it, and the CNC sample in return is compulsory on our end! 👍 

Please please please let me know if and when we coud do it!!

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Are you aware that other members of this forum are also in the process of manufacturing hubs from billet alloy and CNC machining? Do a little searching and you should find a fairly recent thread by @mike_sekinger

I'm in the process of stripping the chassis at the moment for refurbishment so it shouldn't be too long before I get to the hub carriers. Can you PM me with the business details (address etc) I'd like to visit before handing over any gold dust items, I hope you understand.

cheers

-Chris

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2 minutes ago, cweeden said:

Are you aware that other members of this forum are also in the process of manufacturing hubs from billet alloy and CNC machining? Do a little searching and you should find a fairly recent thread by @mike_sekinger

I'm in the process of stripping the chassis at the moment for refurbishment so it shouldn't be too long before I get to the hub carriers. Can you PM me with the business details (address etc) I'd like to visit before handing over any gold dust items, I hope you understand.

cheers

-Chris

I have actually, which gives me a bit of hope as, and it is not my intention to "throw shade" on anyone, but I'm pretty certain we can offer a much better price 😁 In no small part due to us being small, just being honest here, but this is definitely a startup-y approach we're going with, very lean.

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@ReVerse, the success of your business model will be predicated on obtaining samples of the parts you want to manufacture. Maybe some token based approach, where someone would be given X tokens if they supplied a physical part sample that was measured/scanned then returned, might work. They could then redeem those tokens for any subsequent part supply. Just an idea. As the OEM parts for our ladies dry up, and in the cases where a cross referenced part does not exist, there is a market opportunity that might be profitable.

 

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@RobinB5 The kind of model you're referring is our top contender right now, good thinking. It's just the blasted website, I want to go online asap but as I said, I have a lot to do and it seems my IT department is in dire need of some...encouragement...ehem.

@cweeden Material choice is the one thing we control 100%, and as with our Rotary apex seals, determining what alloy to choose was application-critical. With the hubs it doesn't seem to be so bad, I've checked out the patents and our 6061 aluminum billet should be a great sub for the cast equivalent, better in fact.

@cweeden And you're absolutely right, we aim to be as accurate and close to home to the original parts. The great thing about re-engineering OEMs is that if you can faithfully recreate the process, the rest has been done for you - the parts were designed, tested, and approved by the original designers. So the least we can do is get as closely as we possibly can to the original. I can brag about using OES chemical analysis as well as surface roughness analysis, I guess it's a cool little sticker we could add to our credentials 😂

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2 minutes ago, ReVerse said:

Also, I feel the need to point out that English isn't my first language, reading back my own messages I've felt my insecurities pop up 🤣

Not at all @ReVerse, your English is excellent!

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I wonder what our intake manifold would look like if HP designed one? That video makes me want to examine some of the modern plastic ones in detail.

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Just blown my offside hub from my 82 Turbo trying to remove the steel sleeved insert as the lug was showing that it was cracked when I removed the wheel for a suspension refresh. 

Cant find a suitable replacement anywhere just now and people are suggesting a weld repair. 

For some reason I can’t download pics at the moment but if anyone’s interested I can try again later (as my phone suggests)

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I've got a spare S1 hub carrier but it needs some machining work as the lip which retains the bearing had been ground off and I've had it aluminium welded but it needs tidying up so may not be a lot of help?

Lotus Esprit [meaning] a 1:1 scale Airfix kit with a propensity to catch fire

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