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Lotus Type 131 - The Rumour Mill


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13 minutes ago, PAR said:

I think the direction of travel is that poor people won’t have cars....

Some people live in Chelsea have no drives. This property is £22m

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/85767922#/  I think they could afford a nice extension cable. Perhaps they will all have to have bikes.

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Clicked on the monthly mortgage payments tab and at £88k a month they can have it!

I think it is an age thing, but you spend 30 years working hard to get more, get bigger stuff. Now, I just wonder why?  Am looking to downsize and get rid of stuff. Work less or not at all. And just go and do the things i always wanted to do as I never had the time.

You can have the biggest house in the village, so what! You can't take it with you. You can give all your wealth to your kids but will they really appreciate it? I am learning quickly, at this late stage, that life is more than just blind ambition for the next promotion, the next house move, the next expensive watch. Indeed, after not wearing a watch for the past 15 months or so, my plans for my next watch purchase have been binned! I'd lusted after this watch for years, but what the hell, what's the point. The money will instead get spanked on life experiences! The more the better.

I'm assuming decent escorts, not the Ford variety, count as "life experiences" :whistle::popo:

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Back on topic please folks, we have an EV thread elsewhere.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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1 hour ago, JG220 said:

No. No factory capacity for it. In fact I think the last Evora has been built. 

I see. When you say no facotry capacity, you mean Lotus is actually maxing out their production capacity?

1 hour ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

So we’ve had time to think it through properly.

I don’t think the V6 will have any more than 430 bhp at launch, so the same as the top Exige and Evora run out cars. That would equate to the same gearbox options being offered. The Emira will weigh somewhere between the Exige and Evora, probably closer to the latter. In which case the Exige 430 Cup will remain the fastest ICE Lotus for the time-being. An updated R version will follow a year or two down the line.

This engine will disappoint the non Lotus brigade. Why launch a new car with the same Camry engine that the previous car had over many years? However, the Emira V6 probably won’t be any costlier than the current Evora GT410, so why should we suddenly expect 500 bhp from the outset.

The 4 cylinder car could be plenty fast enough, but auto is not for me. Both variants will drive fantastically.

I think the biggest selling feature at launch will be the looks. I reckon it will be sensational in comparison with similar priced competition and that will win it many new customers. Unfortunately I’m going to have to wait until July to be sure.

Whatever happens it’s surely going to sell a lot more units than the existing range. All Lotus has to do is promote it.

But wouldn't you say that Emira being touted as the last Lotus without electric assistance, people could have expected changes in both engine and transmission?

Of course, Lotus has proven that they can make great cars with any engine and tramission, but to pull in those who are not currently considering Lotus, I just think changes to V6 and automatic transmission might have helped Lotus reach the production goals they have set for themselves. But considering the points made by NedaSay, maybe they might not be an issue at all.

 

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On 22/01/2021 at 10:12, duncx said:

Well, since you ask......

Elise, Exige, Evora finished this year with some very tasty final editions due shortly and made in limited numbers (of course). Be quick if you want one, end of an era for sure :(

New car (details released this summer as mentioned) on an 'Evora-ish' tub, styling cues from the Evija, sized mid way betwen the Exige and Evora, 2 seats, easy ingress, much more on-board tech etc, more in line with a certain German manufacturers offerings. No idea if it's a soft top, assume not?

Engines, AMG turbo charged 4-pot with 400+bhp with DC box (currently fitted to the Merc A45), and a forced induction V6 manual, from where I have not been able to determine. However, I believe that the 4-pot will start at £60K-ish and the V6 will start at £80K-ish. No mention of any Hybrid nonsense.

That's the sum of what I've gleaned from numerous sources, some of them even reliable :lol:, it may all be cobblers but it's kept me interested and entertained :)

Hope that helps  :thumbsup:

Ahem, I think I'm still on course :)

 

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You definitely are, duncx. And on the topic of DCT, I know it will cost them, but since Emira is their last car without electric assistance,

I hope that they can offer it for V6 as well. I think current Elise and Exige could do a lot better against Boxster and Cayman with DCT.

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But better in what way? published 0-60 times of course, but not more fun, Clutch and manual for that. Porsche sell many more PDk's because most of their customers use them in clogged cities or just want the badge and the looks to boulevard around. They did run some GT models PDK for a run, but there were so many complaints from keen drivers they brought the manuals back. I really hope the car is great but manual and removable roof essential for me personally.

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4 minutes ago, Woodman said:

But better in what way? published 0-60 times of course, but not more fun, Clutch and manual for that. Porsche sell many more PDk's because most of their customers use them in clogged cities or just want the badge and the looks to boulevard around. They did run some GT models PDK for a run, but there were so many complaints from keen drivers they brought the manuals back. I really hope the car is great but manual and removable roof essential for me personally.

I was just thinking that with DCT, people who bought Porsche for their PDK could have went with Lotus, leading to more sales. Of course, Lotus should continue what it does well but could also try to offer choices that appeal to customers from other companies. I suppose t's like how Porsche makes money with SUVs in a way. I hope for both manual and open top variant of some sort as well.

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8 hours ago, NedaSay said:

 

I'm still extremely sceptical about AMG providing powertrain to Lotus. Especially with the closer ties(shareholding) AMG has with Aston Martin these days. Despite the fact that Geely holding owns a 9% stake in Daimler.  The Volvo Drive E engine makes more sense to especially since Volvo and Toyota have the same gearbox supplier Aisin. 

I think you are becoming a bit of a broken record. Matt Windle is quoted as saying the 4cyl is not coming from Geely in Cars and Track so I don’t think he would do a misdirect as close to launch.

AMG is a relatively natural partner as Geely is working on many things with Mercedes including the next generation of hybrid engines.

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An interesting thing for driving involvement which is at the heart of what we all expect from the Emira, is power steering tech. 

The driving feel of a Lotus is partly coming from the way it steers and the feedback you get from the road, we all know that. 

Elise and Exige were great in that area with no assistance but the Evora managed to be very good also with a very well tuned hydraulic system. I don't see Emira without power assistance of course but it would be great if Lotus managed to keep an hydraulic system instead of an electric one. Even if the latest have made huge progress over the years and is CO2 minus in a car dev. Lotus and McLaren have been among the last not to switch to electric power steer and they are benchmark to driving feel. 

They will have to make the move at some point of course because of all the tuning possibilities elec offers and because semi autonomous applications work with this, but I would hope it doesn't come to early 😋

 

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15 hours ago, NedaSay said:

When it comes to the Emira V6. I can guarantee that it will comply with much stricter EU guidelines. It will not be the Camry engine anymore in the engine bay, The 2GR-FE cannot make it thru California CARB emissions regulations anymore, The 2GR-FE is finally being discontinued, it is actually finishing its life on the Evora GT. There's no point launching a global car if from the get go, the engine can't make it on the top sport car markets (US, EU, Japan)

After checking I assume that the car will either receive a 2FR-FKS or 7GR-FKS. So  it is pretty much the same engine. The much newer 2/7GR-FKS engine is as modern as Toyota makes them and will have no problem making emissions.  It comes with 315hp n/a and will rev well into 7200rpm even though Toyota keeps it at 6600 for the Lexus cars. If you supercharge it or turbocharge it, getting 450bhp is an easy get and for Lotus that"s very cost effective, same supercharger but way more refined block and heads. training for tech will remain limited and 

I'm still extremely sceptical about AMG providing powertrain to Lotus. Especially with the closer ties(shareholding) AMG has with Aston Martin these days. Despite the fact that Geely holding owns a 9% stake in Daimler.  The Volvo Drive E engine makes more sense to especially since Volvo and Toyota have the same gearbox supplier Aisin. One of the key point in the presentation was Lotus being able to generate profit thru economies of scale... I don't see how the AMG  powertrain fits in that framework. especially between now and 2028 when the company becomes EV only.

As a 4-cylinder the AMG A45 drivetrain in a Lotus would not be a bad option. Still more power (and less weight) than the Evora/Exige V6.

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Well I think its all pointing in the right direction. 

I find myself a bit less depressed about electrification when an organisation (perhaps without choice) like Lotus is really getting behind it. 

The EMIRA looks like the right strategy to me. Perhaps it would have been better to offer DCT to both engines, but its probably right that the cheaper 4 pot has the option of DCT, as that will likely be the most popular. Lotus still has the brand power, I think to make a one model lineup work where the lowest model still commands sufficient cachet for people to make the commitment. 

personally, I'm interested a the 4-pot DCT. 

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Ugh... It's confirmed as a 2l and the Alpine is a 1.8. I mean it could be tweaked out to 2l I suppose but I wouldn't think they would bother, they usually just buy them off the cart and the 1.8 can deliver 300bhp.

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Slightly weird way to go about it but Toyota also launched the Supra with the straight six then offered the four pot. Can't really see why anyone would prefer the four but I don't think either is very popular. Haven't seen any on the roads yet. People show off with SUVs these days and increasingly with EVs.

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But regardless of where they get it from, be it Mercedes or elsewhere, perhaps biggest issue would be

the overall cost and reliablilty right? I hope Lotus get the engine which prepares them better for

Cayman and Boxster. And on the topic of transmission, I guess I can almost see a review saying Emira is

another great car from Lotus which deserves better transmission than (some type of automatic transmission).

Although when you consider how everyone is going electric, having any gear could be considered a plus in the coming years.

 

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