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Lotus Type 131 - The Rumour Mill


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I love Lotus but...controversial comment advance warning.....How many new cars (excluding ex-demo) have Lotus sold in the UK and then worldwide annually in the last 10 yrs - not many!

So the Lotus fans will buy the Emira anyway and perhaps a handful of other converts. But regardless of how good it may be, why would the majority of buyers of other Marques switch to but a car that Lotus have already announced will be their last petrol car and that the next generation electric cars will be along in 2-3 years anyway. Doesn't make sense to me.

Look how highly praised the Alpine was in the press and how poor the sales are (in the UK anyway).

I believe that most people who buy Porsche do so as a status symbol.

I want Lotus and the Emira to be a success and I will be clambering all over it at FOS in a few weeks hoping it lives up to the hype (an I am sure it will). However perceptions don't change overnight which will stop the majority of porsche fans etc from switching to Lotus  and most of Joe Public don't even know Lotus still exists anyway.

The good news is we will all buy it.

 

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Yeah, we all know Lotus have a huge uphill, against an avalanche, struggle to project a new brand image into the masses.

If they market the new brand image successfully then they have a chance. This requires great creativity and lots of money backed up by an excellent product.

 

I am thankful they are even giving us a new ICE car when they could have gone straight to EV.

 

I suspect that they will struggle to make any real impact. Then again, this is a stop-gap branding exercise before they go EV and SUV - which is where the mass appeal and market will be.

Case in point. I looked at and could buy any 3 year old McLaren and any new one up to the 620S BUT even with their decade plus of performance road car brand image I can't bring myself to buy one. This is down to pre-conception of their foibles and ultimately the experience just didn't match up to an older GT3, Ferrari 458 or Gallardo/Huracan.

I believe Lotus has an even bigger problem.

People say that they won't steal sales from Porsche but of course they will. Yes, most of them are brand loyalists and image stalwarts but the looks and the 'last ICE Lotus' will persuade some of the same people as me to buy one - those looking at GT3s and older Italians who are not scared by even the older Lotus issues.

I see this as an opportunity to get an end of era legend  (why I was looking at the manual F430 or the N/A of the 458) and I now intent to keep it for a long time.

If not many people buy it - I am not sure I now care - it will make it even more special and rare and make my experience even greater and it won't really affect  the future plans of the Lotus brand which I am sure will be a great success with the might of Geely behind them

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1 hour ago, Beady said:

I believe that most people who buy Porsche do so as a status symbol.

Absolutely it's a status symbol, and its product range has, frankly, evolved to square up nicely with big city bonuses.

As @BoostedTrav * says, part of the status is playing the numbers game.  Lotus have to play the numbers game just in order to get noticed AND then go on to beat them at the drivers car game; the latter of which I don't think anyone is in any doubt about.

*welcome to the forum ! ! I also enjoy your YouTube content 🙂 

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Hold on....  Let us not actually forget, Porsches are generally speaking excellent cars, mostly decent looking, well built, have strong residuals and are usually more than good to drive!

I don't believe in Porsche battering. They are still something to aspire to in my opinion.

I have never actually owned a 911 or modern Porsche but have nothing at all against them and their image.

I did have a 968 Sport though. Loved it.

22 minutes ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

I know I’m sounding like a broken record, but if one of our esteemed members has just seen the Emira in the wild and uttered the statement “wow, just wow”, then it’s surely going to appeal to a wider audience than just existing Lotus fans

Yeah, I think we all get that and people will indeed go "Wow, that looks the dogs danglies"  BUT it is the other stuff that will likely unfortunately not prompt them to take a test drive and actually find out it really is the cats whiskers.

I am perhaps the other extreme. Never had a Lotus, never really liked one since the Esprit in James Bond and then have put a deposit down on two without even seeing it. WTF is that about? 😁

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3 hours ago, Evotion said:

I had an Integrale with just 220HP and that 'felt' fast and handled like a god. I never contemplated modding it for more. It was perfect TO ME as it was.

I am hoping the Emira will be the same. I will not be swayed by HP and weight but only by the drive itself. The chances of me being disappointed are very, very low.

Lotus will need a plan to get perspective buyers to test drive if they want to sell on a perception in the car.  Numbers cannot convey the sensory event or know how one feels behind the wheel.  At least now there is YouTube and the like to help promote that angle of the car more than decades past.

If the car is not from the UK or Italy; it's not worth talking about.

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22 minutes ago, brightoncorgi said:

Lotus will need a plan to get perspective buyers to test drive if they want to sell on a perception in the car.  Numbers cannot convey the sensory event or know how one feels behind the wheel.  At least now there is YouTube and the like to help promote that angle of the car more than decades past.

Yeah, I have said before that they need to take full advantage of the YouTube influencers out there. Love or hate them they do now hold a lot of sway and it how most people now consume content.

 

Thee have 2 jobs.

1. Have a great, aspirational marketing plan

2. Drive people into test drives

 

The biggest problem is #2 and I suspect there will be f*** all demonstrators available perhaps well into 2022.

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I guess that's why they're investing so much in the new retailing concept Matt Windle outlined in the recent briefing.  I gather there's a mock up of it at Hethel and dealers and other retailers are being brought in to learn more about it.  It's new ground for Lotus but not for Geely and their other sub-brands, so I assume they've got research and evidence to back up the plans.

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Tip of the iceberg marketing so far but it has started off well.  The teasers and Evija are all part of their grand design. There is a lot more to come.

So excited. This might even eclipse the waiting when my first son was born 😁

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1 minute ago, TomE said:

internally as well as externally) then that should be a great looking car.

Umm, internally in what way?

No electric/hybrid.  Chassis/suspension?

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3 hours ago, Evotion said:

Is 500 HP+ even possible on the Toyota engine - and still reliable, even with a 'box that can cope with it?

I suspect those hoping for 500HP+ will be disappointed,

How quickly we all forget that power corrupts. 400 is fine!

I had an Integrale with just 220HP and that 'felt' fast and handled like a god. I never contemplated modding it for more. It was perfect TO ME as it was.

I am hoping the Emira will be the same. I will not be swayed by HP and weight but only by the drive itself. The chances of me being disappointed are very, very low.

I do appreciate that others will immediately be put off by the headline figures and never take the effort to drive the car but that might well be their loss.

To answer your first question, yes you can get 500hp with the 2gr-fr and Lotus did so on the dyno. Getting hp from the engine is not diificult and from what i heard way back when it was a reliable delivery... but everybody agreed the gearboxe was not going to cope. they obtained the power at 7200rpm and it exceeded the torque rating of BG6. Regardless even if we don't get 500bhp i'm still thinking that the absolute top end version shall get more than 430 bhp just because it is the nature of progress, incremental steps forward. I'm one that believes Lotus intentionally left a bit of power of the table with 430 and now that they can get a BG6 good with 480nm of torque we should see them irk a few more hp 450, is my guess, probably lower down the rev range because it should be a slightly different engine.

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37 minutes ago, TomE said:

The internal design language.  The Evija has a floating dash and a central vertical column for the ancillary controls, for example, which I'm guessing will be mimicked in the Emira rather than the recent tendency for large touch screens.  It has echoes of the 340R and other Lotus layouts too.

 

2020-lotus-evija-dashboard-carbuzz-607286.jpg

I absolutely detest those big screens in cars.

If I want to watch TV, I'll stay at home.

I could think of nothing more distracting than one of those screens.

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All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

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1 hour ago, TomE said:

The internal design language.  The Evija has a floating dash and a central vertical column for the ancillary controls, for example, which I'm guessing will be mimicked in the Emira rather than the recent tendency for large touch screens.  It has echoes of the 340R and other Lotus layouts too.

 

2020-lotus-evija-dashboard-carbuzz-607286.jpg

LOTUS_340R_convertible_2_2000_interior-photos_o_lotus-340r-convertible-2-doors-2000-model-interior-photos-0.jpg

oooh baby. Works for me. 

1 hour ago, NedaSay said:

they can get a BG6 good with 480nm of torque we should see them irk a few more hp 450, is my guess, probably lower down the rev range because it should be a slightly different engine.

That would be awesome and somewhat counter the weight.  We will see. Perhaps, there will be an S and RE version with different tweaks and gearing options.

36 minutes ago, ramjet said:

I absolutely detest those big screens in cars.

If I want to watch TV, I'll stay at home.

I could think of nothing more distracting than one of those screens.

Ha, you mean a la Tesla?  They are huge. Even the McLaren ones area a bit dominating.

I'm not a massive fan of touch screen per se anyway.

If it has an engine, I am there to thrash it.

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7 hours ago, Evotion said:

Is 500 HP+ even possible on the Toyota engine - and still reliable, even with a 'box that can cope with it?

I suspect those hoping for 500HP+ will be disappointed,

 

I'm not sure this can be reliabily acheived without cracking open the engine and strenghtening the internals.

This would void any Toyota warranty.

The GT4 had a higher bhp but it is na and 4.0.

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4 hours ago, chipp said:

I'm not sure this can be reliabily acheived without cracking open the engine and strenghtening the internals.

This would void any Toyota warranty.

The GT4 had a higher bhp but it is na and 4.0.

 

4 hours ago, mg4lotus said:

The Lotus guru said up to 460bhp the engine was reliable but over 460bhp could lead to piston / con-rod problems. Something to bear in mind and I'm sure Lotus will have.

Even if it starts under 460HP its unlikely that the Emira won't exceed 460HP at some point during its life cycle.

Do we even know if adding a super charger to the engine doesn't void any warranty? I mean I don't know of many blown Toyota V6 in a Lotus under warranty so I don't even know if a warranty is really a concern for Lotus. If it is then they should have used an internal engine from Volvo/Geely.

 

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Official UK covid update on Monday but looking like it will not be lifted and we will stay as we are until mid July.

Not sure what that means for Goodwood FOS. 😒

OMG. Please no.

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38 minutes ago, TomE said:

Err, there’s been a supercharged V6 Evora since late 2010 :) 

Err, you missed his point by a country mile. He knows that but was referring to IF adding the supercharger had already voided the warranty from Toyota. Slightly different I know, but I got what @Likuid was referring to even after a bottle of Merlot darling lol......:wine:

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

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2 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Err, you missed his point by a country mile. He knows that but was referring to IF adding the supercharger had already voided the warranty from Toyota. Slightly different I know, but I got what @Likuid was referring to even after a bottle of Merlot darling lol......:wine:

Nope, I’ve not missed the point.  
 

He said “Do we even know if adding a super charger to the engine doesn't void any warranty? 

Adding a supercharger doesn’t void the warranty.  Toyota have their own supercharged version too. 

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