Early NA S1 Evora gear ratio and linkages

[Celica]

I’ve read about most early models will have long ratio gearboxes vs preferred updated short ratio. What does this mean in drive, is it the final drive or all gears? Assume the pro for short ratio being quicker acceleration vs long would enable higher speeds for each gear?

what do the NA redline too?

Also I’ve read MY20 having the gear linkages upgraded with some early models may have had them changed under ratio. What does it feel like before and after, and if not updated how much is parts and labour?

 

thanks

[Bravo73]

Search is your friend. These topics have been covered many times before. 

[jep]

Most cars from 2011 onwards have the close ratio box. All from MY12 onwards. All S models have the CR box. 

2009 and 2010 cars generally had the long ratio box. Press cars it is said all had CR box fitted. My 2010 car has a close ratio box - the factory can tell you from the chassis number. 

The CR ratios are on 3rd gear onwards and were fitted by Lotus. Personally I would only want a CR box but others don't mind the long ratios. The revs drop much less with the CR box but it still pulls to 130mph in 4th. Max revs just over 7000rpm. 

Nearly all early cars have been upgraded to MY12 gear linkage. Not a difficult fix. 

Early clutch is heavy, many have been changed but that is not cheap. I am changing mine to a 400 clutch and hope it will be lighter both in flywheel and pedal.

Justin 

[JAWS]

Essentially you've miss read then, or not searched thoroughly enough

The close ratio box has always been an option from launch although a lot of launch editions were not specified with it. It's not a "preferred" choice as you state simply a choice based on how you use the car. Bear in mind that gears 1 & 2 are exactly the same on both boxes and take the car to approx. 70mph. Therfore there are no differences in 0-60 times and the redline is the same (7200rpm in sport mode)

If anything the preferred choice would be the auto's ratios. 

As for the linkages. There have been a number of iterations over the years and there are negatives and positives to each iteration (I've covered this in other threads).  The only way you can be sure you're happy with cables and linkages is to drive the car you're interested in. Don't be swayed by someone stating/selling that they have MYxx gear linkages. As for "MY20", never heard that one before especially as the set up hasn't changed since the 400 was launched.

[JAWS]

8 minutes ago, jep said:

Most cars from 2011 onwards have the close ratio box. All from MY12 onwards. All S models have the CR box. 

2009 and 2010 cars generally had the long ratio box. Press cars it is said all had CR box fitted. My 2010 car has a close ratio box - the factory can tell you from the chassis number. 

The CR ratios are on 3rd gear onwards and were fitted by Lotus. Personally I would only want a CR box but others don't mind the long ratios. The revs drop much less with the CR box but it still pulls to 130mph in 4th. Max revs just under 7000rpm. 

Nearly all early cars have been upgraded to MY12 gear linkage. Not a difficult fix. 

Early clutch is heavy, many have been changed but that is not cheap. I am changing mine to a 400 clutch and hope it will be lighter both in flywheel and pedal.

Justin 

There's quite a bit of misinformation here, which I think is where people get wrong opinions.

I know that many early cars have NOT had MY12 cables fitted. As it is a big job. I can guarantee that many claim that but more likely they have had their current set up adjusted.

Not all early clutches were heavy and not many have been changed. I believe the poll on this forum even proved that out.

I'm interested in how you get on with the 400 clutch and flywheel as I don't know of anyone having that fitted to an N/A. I know concerns were raised to me around how the drop in revs etc would affect the ECU etc. When will you be getting the car back?

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Also the long box is exactly how it came from the gearbox factory. The close ratio boxes have been opened up and had various components replaced with Lotus sourced parts.

[jep]

My NA clutch pedal was heavy. My 2011 S noticeable lighter. 

When I say many have been changed, I use 'many' in a relative manner but that is perhaps misleading. I certainly don't mean 'most' - but considering clutches should last well over 50,000+ miles, I would say early Evora was above average on having this part replaced. Mine survived 68000 miles and 11 years so no complaints. 

My NA was a factory car when new (Martin Donnelly drove it initially) and I bought it from Bell and Colvill in 2018 who confirmed linkage was changed in 2014. They supplied a copy invoice for this in-house cost as it was preparation work when they sold it in 2014. Linkage change was around £600. 

Bell and Colvill are doing the clutch - I requested a S clutch but they said they can fit a 400 clutch and I assume they know this will work. This is beyond my level of knowledge and if you know otherwise, I will certainly raise it with B&C. 

Justin 

 

 

[Celica]

Thanks all

I can’t seem to edit my post but didn’t mean MY20 as typo for MY12

Ive been scanning Evora Chat and totally forgot about these other sub sections in the forum and shall have a look and read 

 

[Barrykearley]

Don’t over think the CR and LR issue nor the linkages. Buy a car you can find at the right price and enjoy. There simply isn’t enough cars out there to be fussy - and no matter what box it has - it’ll be a hoot. The sport pack is a must.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

^^^ I agree 100% with this.

[TomE]

As Barry says, it's difficult to make generalisations.  There was a degree of variation in cars of the same spec when they left the factory, then various changes to specifications and build methods over the years.  Most owners of S1 cars are likely to have done something to gear linkages and adjustment, plus driving styles and hence wear will have been different.  By now your best bet is to drive a few, knowing that the gear change can be a variable, and see what you think.

My 2011 S has had the same slightly agricultural input shaft noise at low revs since the day I bought it.  It was comprehensively assessed by a Lotus field service engineer at 6 months old.  Whilst I was given the cliched Lotus responses of "they all do that" and "it's within acceptable parameters", I was reassured that if it got worse they would investigate further.  Over 9 years it hasn't got any worse and my brain has tuned out the noise.  I'm sure if I ever sold it a potential buyer might read the forums and suggest my clutch was about to fail and the gearbox likely to implode any minute  

[Celica]

Thanks

i totally agree it will be find, test and either like or not. 
but I just like to research and understand the differences

[JAWS]

22 hours ago, jep said:

My NA clutch pedal was heavy. My 2011 S noticeable lighter. 

When I say many have been changed, I use 'many' in a relative manner but that is perhaps misleading. I certainly don't mean 'most' - but considering clutches should last well over 50,000+ miles, I would say early Evora was above average on having this part replaced. Mine survived 68000 miles and 11 years so no complaints. 

My NA was a factory car when new (Martin Donnelly drove it initially) and I bought it from Bell and Colvill in 2018 who confirmed linkage was changed in 2014. They supplied a copy invoice for this in-house cost as it was preparation work when they sold it in 2014. Linkage change was around £600. 

Bell and Colvill are doing the clutch - I requested a S clutch but they said they can fit a 400 clutch and I assume they know this will work. This is beyond my level of knowledge and if you know otherwise, I will certainly raise it with B&C. 

Justin 

 

 

Justin, out of interest do you know what B&C are replacing? You mention the flywheel in your first post, but not this one.

If I were dropping the box I'd want to fit the lighter flywheel so it were more free revving (has always irked me that the rev drops are quite slow). Obviously this can have it's own issues, one being how the ECU copes with this change as I mentioned.

Arguably the fact your original one lasted 11 years and 68k miles says maybe it's safer to replace like with like? Especially if you're potentially not fitting the 400 flywheel with the new clutch plate and cover?

N.B using terms - most, nearly all and many Evora's when your experience is essentially 2 cars is yes, misleading.

[scotty435]

From going from a 2010 NA to a 410GTsport I can honestly say my NA gear change was as good as my new 410, the NA was still on its original cables and never once had trouble changing gear, it also had the LR box and I never once thought I wished I had the SR box. My thoughts are there where some cars that came from the factory with the cables not adjusted as they should have been and that cast a shadow on all early NAs which in the real world is not the case. My advice is to get out there and drive a few don’t overthink things and like Barry says the sports pack is a must, luckily most cars come with that option ticked.

[jep]

5 hours ago, JAWS said:

If I were dropping the box I'd want to fit the lighter flywheel

Yep, 400 flywheel is being fitted. 

Justin 

 

[Cdm2018]

Agree with Scotty 

my 2010 NA still on its original cables and clutch it’s a LR box but it suits my driving styles 

I don’t have the sports button but have a different exhaust which I don’t know ? In the ideal world I liked to have all packs but when I was searching I went for spec I could afford etc. I wouldn’t mind the CAI to give the car a stronger presence but then I don’t want huge noise element ?

I guess it’s horses for courses and in the end I am still happy with my car ! Oh stupid traction light back on ☹️☹️☹️

[electro_boy]

Howdy guys, 

I have a NA car with a couple mods to the gears and drivetrain:

- Evora 4XX gear shifter mechanism (plus new cables and hardware required for that to work)

- Evora 4XX lighter flywheel

- Evora 4XX clutch

All the work was done by the very good people at ES Motorsports, (please give Dave a call and tell him Jay sent you).  I got a whole bunch of other work done at the same time so I don't know the cost of getting the individual bits of work done.

My thoughts on the gear change

My original gear change mechanism would shift fine when bimbling about but would baulk everynow and then when pushing the car or on the track, it was mainly shifting across the gate ie gears 2&3 or 4&5.  I asked Hofmans Lotus to look into and according to them it was as good as can be, further investigation required taking the gearbox out which I didn't want to do at the time.  I learnt to shift calmer with out rushing the change and that helped a lot but sometimes when you come in hot to a corner hard on the brakes and you really need to engage that lower gear it was still possible to rush the change and get some baulking.

The new mechanism felt night and day difference you could feel the sturdier mechanism and has a rifle like quality to change, clicking and clanging like a well engineered machine.  The shift feel was so much smoother and much more positive compared to the previous version which had a little bit of vagueness to it.  I haven't tried the mechanism on the track yet and I've only driven the car a little bit so not really stressed the change mechanism yet but it so far it does feel very good and a big improvement on before.

My advice if you have some problems with the gear change, talk to a good Lotus garage and ask for the cables to just be adjusted.  This is a pretty simple job (even I managed to do it my self, and I'm an idiot) and shouldn't cost much and has a huge effect on the gear change.  If there are still issues then maybe look in to new cables next and only if feeling crazy go for the gear shifter mechanism.  New shifter mech is not an extortionate amount extra but is a reasonable amount of money so you really have to want it, its not a straight decision that applies for everyone.

 

My thoughts on the clutch

The clutch on my car was charged around 55K miles when I first bought it but something went wrong again around 70K.  It started with a sinking pedal so I thought it was master cylinder issues but turned out it needed a new clutch too.  The garage that fitted the first clutch while experienced in supercars and high end sports cars was not experienced in Lotus cars and their work was not executed well, so it's plausible they did not install it correctly hence the early failure on the second clutch?  Also possible it wasn't the actual clutch as when it engaged it felt good with no slippage, so possibly the bearing or something else needed replacing and by the time everything was stripped back I might as well have replaced the clutch.  I didn't question ES much about this, in the past they have been pretty good in telling me what can be nursed to go on a bit longer and what really should be replaced so I took their word with no issues.

I found the new 400 clutch felt heavier on the pedal, it is slightly harder to depress the pedal and requires a bit more effort when in stop start traffic than the previous clutch.   I have no idea what was fitted before I assume a standard NA clutch maybe the S clutch?  The harder action could also be due to the lightened flywheel (more thoughts below).  The difference in feel is not a deal breaker at all and it could just be the clutch plate springs bedding in, maybe after a few more miles then soften a little bit.

 

My thoughts on the lighter flywheel 

This also was very noticeable straight way, just blipping the throttle in neutral, the engine revs quicker and is definitely more responsive than before.  Heel and toe shifts are easier to get bob on and makes shifting an even better experience than it was before.  The pedal box is very comfortable for me no issues on that but the heavier flywheel required a little a longer jab on the throttle to get the rev matching just right and this is sometimes hard to judge instinctively.  The lighter flywheel allowing the engine to be more responsive means a little stab on the throttle is just about perfect and allowing very slick down shifts.  

The downsides of a lighter flywheel are well documented and are 100% applicable to the Evora.  The engine may speed up quicker but also slows down quicker so slow lazy shifts while cruising on the motorway are a bit jerky as the revs drop.  Crawling along in traffic is not as smooth as you don't have that heavy mass smoothing out the torque and the vibrations.  It is definitely harder to engage the clutch from standstill as risk of stalling is higher and I think that has the biggest effect on the clutch feel rather than the pedal effort.

If you are daily driving your car maybe think hard if you want the lighter feature.  The car is still very drivable just requires more effort at slow speeds, it is not race car levels of un-refinement by a long way.  How much of a compromise this is will depend on your personal preferences.  For me the compromise is well well worth it, the engine was already amazing and begged to revved to the redline but with the extra response its even more infectious chasing those sonic rings and the satisfaction you get from silky smooth down shifts is amazing and I can't wait to try it out on the track.   But if your car is smooth cruiser then this change might not be for you.

***edit: I have an aftermarket ECU and custom tune (also installed by ES Motorsport) so no idea if the lighter flywheel will cause problems on the standard ECU.

Edited January 10, 2021 by electro_boy

[a7esk]

On 10/01/2021 at 09:28, scotty435 said:

From going from a 2010 NA to a 410GTsport I can honestly say my NA gear change was as good as my new 410, the NA was still on its original cables and never once had trouble changing gear, it also had the LR box and I never once thought I wished I had the SR box. My thoughts are there where some cars that came from the factory with the cables not adjusted as they should have been and that cast a shadow on all early NAs which in the real world is not the case. My advice is to get out there and drive a few don’t overthink things and like Barry says the sports pack is a must, luckily most cars come with that option ticked.

Great commit don’t overthink things .

my NA over 46000 now on its original clutch no issues at all great read folks .

[Whitey]

Same as above - had my 2010  NA for 9 years which has the CR box, now on 36k miles (33K being my miles) with original clutch and a great gear change which has never needed any adjustment at all 

[jep]

I have just picked my NA up from B&C with 400 clutch and flywheel fitted. 

Pedal is lighter but my car was original clutch at 68,000 miles and had always felt heavy. I would say it is on a par with the S pedal feel now. 

I have only done 15 miles and it is peeing down with rain today but the engine does seem to rev quicker with a blip on the throttle. 

B&C did not modify or alter the ECU. 

Justin

[RHDV8]

Do you know the relative weight of your original flywheel compared the the 400?

[jep]

Not sure flywheel weight - I asked for a lighter one and B&C suggested 400 clutch and flywheel. I can ask.

Been out again for a shop and run - I can't in all honesty notice a huge difference to engine speed but that may be my lack of sensitivity. 

Justin 

 

[RHDV8]

27 minutes ago, jep said:

Not sure flywheel weight - I asked for a lighter one and B&C suggested 400 clutch and flywheel. I can ask.

Been out again for a shop and run - I can't in all honesty notice a huge difference to engine speed but that may be my lack of sensitivity. 

Justin 

 

From what I’ve read the N/A flywheel is approx 7.25 kg ?

Edited January 30, 2021 by RHDV8