Coronavirus

[scotty435]

We all have our own opinions on the damage on public health the virus is having on the general public and rightly so. But for Barry to constantly try to down play the dangers of the virus is not what the members of this forum needs and sadly his comments are surely not hopeful to people on here that have lost family and friends to the said virus. Moderator’s did say his opinion’s where not helpful in his early comments of this thread, what’s changed apart from a a lot more hardship, poor health and sadly deaths since? Its not about politics and its not to be joked about.

[oneshot]

Just watched the Royal Institution Christmas Lectures - this year given by Professor Jonathan Van Tam. He had a host of other top scientists on and explained about viruses, the mathematical modelling and vaccinations. It was very interesting.

The demonstration by the maths professor from Cambridge about the modelling and human behaviour was very interesting.

[ChrisJ]

 

[Barrykearley]

10 hours ago, scotty435 said:

But for Barry to constantly try to down play the dangers of the virus is not what the members of this forum needs

Balance comes on both sides of the fence. 

I am not downplaying the “dangers” merely trying to make people think outside of the media scare storm and actually question the data rather than simply blindly nod and agree. It’s debate - sadly many in the UK no longer like that and try and suppress it using the methods in Bibs earlier posting. I’ve highlighted the issues in our own family with long covid issues which are pretty scary - but again - that is indeed the challenge of life.

As tragic as an individual passing on may well be - that’s part of life I’m afraid to say. In farming the phrase “where you have livestock you have dead stock” kinda fits the human race really well. We cannot all live forever - and the planet IS overpopulated. Nature like it or not will respond to that. Every life lost is indeed a traumatic time for the remaining family and not at any point have I stated anything to the contrary of that - even if some would like to consider otherwise.

The numbers of folks tragically reported as dying within 28days of a positive test has just surpassed 150K. Yes that’s a lot of people - but everyday people do indeed pass over. I doubt at any time will the true number of deaths be published that state died “OF Covid” as it fits the agenda to continue “WITH Covid”. Am I stating it’s a conspiracy? No - what I am stating is don’t just blindly believe. We don’t buy a car based on stated MPG - as we all know that’s a manipulation of data.

Quality of life is far more important than hanging on for every last breath for many people. My own In-laws have barely left the house in 2 years and they simply have no quality left, in their twilight years they have had 2 completely removed from them by this pandemic. Thinking of my own mortality I’d rather have one decent year than 3 locked away rubbish ones.

The true tragedy of this pandemic will be not the loss of a few weeks of life by many in the data set taken too soon (read the 80+ column) - but the loss of human contact for many over the last 2 years and the impending landslide of people not receiving preventive NHS treatment that will find their lives cut short by decades. Yes I am aware of the younger deaths and the reported numbers - but using statistics you can demonstrate that people of younger ages do indeed die in normal times.

For reference since I’m sure it’ll be hinted at me being a nutter - I have indeed had both my jabs - but am holding out on rushing to my booster needle since myself I have long covid chest pains and an elevated heart rate. 
 

Im off to fashion a brand new tin foil hat.

12 hours ago, gregs24 said:

Once again not sure why you are scared

I’m not of covid - but many are.

However I am scared of the long term after effects of this pandemic on our social model and our long fought freedoms of democracy. How many draconian temporary measures will slither through into longer term legal legislation is a real worry. Millions of people have died historically for our freedoms.

[gregs24]

7 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

Balance comes on both sides of the fence. 

I am not downplaying the “dangers” merely trying to make people think outside of the media scare storm and actually question the data rather than simply blindly nod and agree. 

 

And as has been demonstrated to you several times the data is panning out as expected and the risks are significant and real.

What was 'predicted' in the media has largely come true in terms of cases, spread, hospitalisations, pressure on the NHS and deaths. Hence it was not a scare storm, it was actually preparing the general public for the reality. 

By all means 'question' the data, but also accept and understand the data. 

 

[Barrykearley]

2 minutes ago, gregs24 said:

By all means 'question' the data, but also accept and understand the data.

Yes - but the data is bound by the assumptions made - and that’s where the nuances  “OF” and “WITH” are very useful in the manipulation of such datasets. 
 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Has anyone got any examples of trivial CV consequences? Here’s one:

Ever since the pandemic took hold, our local Domino’s Pizza has been unable to offer their half-and-half toppings, or accept pre-orders for later delivery slots. Why? How does the virus prevent the chef from splitting the ingredients across a single pizza base, or from preparing a pizza an hour or two after you’ve ordered it? The public deserves to know!

[Barrykearley]

Yeah - to go into a shop - you need to wear a mask - to sit at a table in a pub and get lashed - no mask required 👍

many pubs now shutting at 9pm 😳 and also having limited menus.

[C8RKH]

Any one else getting fed up of seeing large swathes of the BBC news being taken up by a mega rich, entitled, tennis player and his fans who think it is so important that he is allowed to play a game of tennis?

His story does just not stack up. Got COVID, had a test that confirmed it (hence he has the paperwork) but went to several "awards" events including handing out awards to children in schools with no mask etc?  Then the BBC reporter says "that maybe he did not know he had COVID" - the whole story has more holes than a mega bar of Aero!

Why does anyone care enough to "protest" about this?  I thought the Aussie politician interviewed hit the nail on the head - why should he get the privilege of being allowed in through an exemption when hundreds or more of Australians and other people were not allowed in under compassionate grounds to see dying parents, family members in critical conditions etc?

The worlds gone made and he just needs to quietly get on his private jet and hiss off back home.

 

[SFO]

1 hour ago, gregs24 said:

What was 'predicted' in the media has largely come true in terms of cases, spread, hospitalisations, pressure on the NHS and deaths. Hence it was not a scare storm, it was actually preparing the general public for the reality. 

 

Really? I seem to remember a million cases a day, 10,000 hospital admissions a day, and around 5,000 deaths a day .. all by about now 

[gregs24]

1 hour ago, Barrykearley said:

Yes - but the data is bound by the assumptions made - and that’s where the nuances  “OF” and “WITH” are very useful in the manipulation of such datasets. 
 

No. The data is clearly defined. There is no hiding or manipulation. You come at this with the premise that something is being hidden or people deceived, for which you provide no evidence.

59 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

Yeah - to go into a shop - you need to wear a mask - to sit at a table in a pub and get lashed - no mask required 👍

many pubs now shutting at 9pm 😳 and also having limited menus.

The logic behind these various scenarios has been explained to you. Nobody is stopping you from wearing a mask whenever you want.

11 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Any one else getting fed up of seeing large swathes of the BBC news being taken up by a mega rich, entitled, tennis player and his fans who think it is so important that he is allowed to play a game of tennis?

His story does just not stack up. Got COVID, had a test that confirmed it (hence he has the paperwork) but went to several "awards" events including handing out awards to children in schools with no mask etc?  Then the BBC reporter says "that maybe he did not know he had COVID" - the whole story has more holes than a mega bar of Aero!

Why does anyone care enough to "protest" about this?  I thought the Aussie politician interviewed hit the nail on the head - why should he get the privilege of being allowed in through an exemption when hundreds or more of Australians and other people were not allowed in under compassionate grounds to see dying parents, family members in critical conditions etc?

The worlds gone made and he just needs to quietly get on his private jet and hiss off back home.

 

Apparently the Federal government wrote to the Tennis Australia on the 29th November making it perfectly clear what the entry requirements to Australia are. The spokesman couldn't understand how TA had either mislaid or failed to understand this information!

[gregs24]

9 minutes ago, SFO said:

Really? I seem to remember a million cases a day, 10,000 hospital admissions a day, and around 5,000 deaths a day .. all by about now 

I should go back and check your figures. You will also quickly realise how silly the figures are you have just 'quoted' if you look at them a bit more closely.

I think your 'memory' is misleading you ...

 

[SFO]

25 minutes ago, gregs24 said:

I should go back and check your figures. You will also quickly realise how silly the figures are you have just 'quoted' if you look at them a bit more closely.

I think your 'memory' is misleading you ...

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/does-warwick-s-omicron-modelling-make-restrictions-more-likely-

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/01/08/new-dodgy-data-row-ukhsa-warned-implausible-covid-statistics/

[SFO]

https://osr.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/correspondence/ed-humpherson-to-victoria-obudulu-data-to-support-statement-made-by-secretary-of-state-for-health-and-social-care/

Edited January 9 by SFO

[PaulCP]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

Any one else getting fed up of seeing large swathes of the BBC news being taken up by a mega rich, entitled, tennis player and his fans who think it is so important that he is allowed to play a game of tennis?His story does just not stack up.

 

Exactly this Andy. It is highly obvious that he is trying it on.

I read so called extracts from how he presented and defended his case with immigration upon initial questioning. If those words are true (media?) then his responses to questions were quite obviously well rehearsed. 
Also, why would he travel with his lawyers if he didn’t expect his visa to be questioned.

I really hope that the court judge and the Australian govt have enough backbone to deport him. The judge just needs to remind hopes that he is really a nobody and just another person trying it on. His actions show nothing but contempt for the Australian nationals who struggle to be able to get back in to their country of residence and be with their relatives.

[Barrykearley]

1 hour ago, gregs24 said:

No. The data is clearly defined. There is no hiding or manipulation. You come at this with the premise that something is being hidden or people deceived, for which you provide no evidence.

Read my post in its exacting English manner - without the need for literature inference. 

The data has been presented in such a manner that one could suggest it tells the story to justify the actions with the definitions you so rightly highlight.

consider changing the definition oh only ever so slightly and the picture is completely different - to be explicitly clear before you accuse me of ignoring your expert opinion. Remove “with” and present data only “of” covid as a reason for death and that removes many of the deaths in the last 2 years from those statistics does it not?

 

1 hour ago, SFO said:

Really? I seem to remember a million cases a day, 10,000 hospital admissions a day, and around 5,000 deaths a day .. all by about now 

Sshhh - want me to make you a new foil hat as well?

[Barrykearley]

1 hour ago, gregs24 said:

The logic behind these various scenarios has been explained to you. Nobody is stopping you from wearing a mask whenever you want.

Again - consider the science you so love to quote - this no masks in a pub pishe is an utter joke and makes a total mockery of policy.

It’s a logical as only wearing a condom for foreplay 👍

[PaulCP]

I see Drakeford is having a go at Boris for not having the same tougher rules that Wales have.

TBH I can’t get my head around the logIc of some of the Welsh rules. For example you can go to the Cinema in a group of no more than 6 and then sit indoors with 300 or so more people for 2 hours with the cinema having no requirement to ensure social distancing.

Drakeford really needs to start admitting what most of the Welsh people know. He is a Welsh Nationalist operating under a Labour banner since he knows that he’d get no ware if he stuck to his true beliefs.

[Barrykearley]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59927306
 

looks like the government’s own policy will make some extra vacancies within the nhs. Nice little earner for contract agencies to swoop up those staff and redeploy them back within the same departments 👍

[C8RKH]

5 hours ago, gregs24 said:

There is no hiding or manipulation.

I disagree. There is plenty of "manipulation" of the figures going on for sure by all sides. Just as there is always this on anything like this.

I don't doubt we need to take precautions. To take action. And to protect ourselves and those around us.  But at the same time we need to strike a balance and allow people, and the country, to get on and move forwards.   

At some point people need to realise that if people are not working. If businesses are not generating wealth. Then the who will pay for the "support" needed whether through furloughs, the NHS funding, etc.

[gregs24]

9 hours ago, SFO said:

Really? I seem to remember a million cases a day, 10,000 hospital admissions a day, and around 5,000 deaths a day .. all by about now 

OK lets look at that a little more closely. 10,000 hospitalisations per day and 5000 deaths, so 1 in 2 admitted to hospital will die. Please provide me with where this was predicted and at what point there has ever been a 1 in 2 death rate in hospital admissions. Silly figures aren't they 😉

[gregs24]

8 hours ago, SFO said:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/does-warwick-s-omicron-modelling-make-restrictions-more-likely-

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/01/08/new-dodgy-data-row-ukhsa-warned-implausible-covid-statistics/

Try reading what you post

Does Warwick’s Omicron modelling make restrictions more likely? | The Spectator

In a 'worse case scenario' hospital admissions could reach 7000 per day (WORST CASE REMEMBER and NOT 10,000 per day). They are currently running at 2000+ per day and climbing, so probably not reached the peak yet. Yet you call them out as a failure of modelling! Shall we review this again in two or three weeks when we will actually know the answer like last time ?

6 hours ago, PaulCP said:

I see Drakeford is having a go at Boris for not having the same tougher rules that Wales have.

TBH I can’t get my head around the logIc of some of the Welsh rules. For example you can go to the Cinema in a group of no more than 6 and then sit indoors with 300 or so more people for 2 hours with the cinema having no requirement to ensure social distancing.

Drakeford really needs to start admitting what most of the Welsh people know. He is a Welsh Nationalist operating under a Labour banner since he knows that he’d get no ware if he stuck to his true beliefs.

He is playing politics. It wouldn't be so bad if the devolved countries were more effective in controlling omicron, but they aren't.

Edited January 9 by gregs24

[gregs24]

8 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Read my post in its exacting English manner - without the need for literature inference. 

The data has been presented in such a manner that one could suggest it tells the story to justify the actions with the definitions you so rightly highlight.

consider changing the definition oh only ever so slightly and the picture is completely different - to be explicitly clear before you accuse me of ignoring your expert opinion. Remove “with” and present data only “of” covid as a reason for death and that removes many of the deaths in the last 2 years from those statistics does it not?

 

 

 

OK once and for all - not sure how many times you need this explained. There are 3 metrics for 'death from/ with COVID. All clear - all presented by the BBC and in fact the daily TV reported figure is almost the lowest of the three. NOTHING hidden, definitions CLEAR, NO CONSPIRACY. In addition if you want more information on certification of death please read here:

guidance-for-doctors-completing-medical-certificates-of-cause-of-death-covid-19.pdf (publishing.service.gov.uk)

This is strictly governed by international standards

Your points about 'with' and 'of' are clearly covered and NOT something that is not considered.

 

Edited January 9 by gregs24

[Barrykearley]

8 hours ago, gregs24 said:

Your points about 'with' and 'of' are clearly covered and NOT something that is not considered.

Utter tosh. What you have posted does not address that - it simply doesn’t. 
Doctors were instructed on how to fill out death certificates early on in the pandemic to avoid the need for autopsy. 
There is no metric published that shows cause of death “OF” covid.
The deaths over and above the usual number - yeah that’s a moot one - how does anyone know what this last couple of years flu impacts are? As that can swing wildly season to season.

[SFO]

10 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

Utter tosh. What you have posted does not address that - it simply doesn’t. 
Doctors were instructed on how to fill out death certificates early on in the pandemic to avoid the need for autopsy. 
There is no metric published that shows cause of death “OF” covid.
 

It's clear irrefutable evidence, it is rock solid, like all Government information and statistics 😂

UK Government doesn't do manipulation, oh no, it doesn't 😂

9 hours ago, gregs24 said:

This is strictly governed by international standards
 

Please do elaborate and provide the links to these international standards.