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So good I bought it twice


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I had a new Evora Sport 410 on a 50/50 deal.  It took some extreme man maths to make the case and I justified it as ‘you only live once‘! I had a great time in the car and loved every minute but had t

No.   Assuming after 2 years the car is worth £60k you use £40k to pay off your second payment, then £20k towards your next deposit which you need to add £20k to as new money. So it has cost

Yes indeed the up side I've driven 3 different Caymans including the new GT4 .997 911/ and the new 911T and various other brand new cars and had 1/2 day at Porsche experience centre at Silverstone, he

Nice one, well done on getting your hands back on it :)

 

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

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P I C T U R E S!

Yummy. 410 Sport

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Ah that explains why I've not seen you one the A3 in a long time. Congrats on getting it back, lovely colour... :yes:

A Lotus is for driving, pork is for breakfast.

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On 25/01/2021 at 19:03, Gadzooks said:

I had a new Evora Sport 410 on a 50/50 deal.  It took some extreme man maths to make the case and I justified it as ‘you only live once‘! I had a great time in the car and loved every minute but had to sell it when the other 50% needed repaying.  Given the whole COVID thing I am having another ‘you only live once’ bout of man maths and after considering getting a Porsche Boxster GTS or an Exige 350 I have gone for another Evora Sport 410.  In fact it’s the same Evora as I owned before.  So, 4 owners but my twice.  Should be getting delivery on Friday from Lotus Silverstone.  Can’t wait to get it back even though I won’t be able to enjoy it until the restrictions relax.  It will be a track car and GT car and (as far as I am concerned) there isn’t a better car on the market. Who cares about posh  switchgear and modern infotainment; It’s the drive that counts.
 

Hope you all get chance to give your cars some exercise soon.

Great Story thank for sharing.  I'm considering buying a evora 400 but colour and interior that I would like has not yet turned up when I've had the cash available. I keep considering buying new or  the newer GT410 but would need finance on them.  There are some companies still offering 0% finance based on something similar to 50:50.  What happens when you return the car at the end of the term and not pay the final balance do you get any cash back?

All the Best

Greg

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7 minutes ago, Greg | ValetPro said:

Great Story thank for sharing.  I'm considering buying a evora 400 but colour and interior that I would like has not yet turned up when I've had the cash available. I keep considering buying new or  the newer GT410 but would need finance on them.  There are some companies still offering 0% finance based on something similar to 50:50.  What happens when you return the car at the end of the term and not pay the final balance do you get any cash back?

You get the equity back ie the value of the car less the finance.  However, you will probably have to arrange the sale of the car yourself ahead of the final payment date if you are not getting finance from a car dealer 

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From a BMW page

The 50:50 package is as simple as it sounds. Customers pay 50 per cent of the car’s value up front, then absolutely nothing for two years, following which they can choose from three options: Pay the remaining 50 per cent to take full ownership of the car, part exchange the car for a new one, or hand the car back without further commitment.

Customers need only spend half the money up front that they normally would, the car has a guaranteed minimum future value which negates concerns around depreciation and customers can keep their future options open throughout. Better still, if a customer chooses to part exchange the car at the end of the agreement they could end up driving a brand new car every two years.

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32 minutes ago, exeterjeep said:

Better still, if a customer chooses to part exchange the car at the end of the agreement they could end up driving a brand new car every two years.

Great for the manufacturer and the cusotmer. You put £40k down on an £80k car, then every two years you "roll forward" the outstanding £40k debt.

Even better if each time you are rolling forward on zero percent. Then eventually when you die, the deferred £40k is paid out of your estate lol.....

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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33 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Great for the manufacturer and the cusotmer. You put £40k down on an £80k car, then every two years you "roll forward" the outstanding £40k debt.

Even better if each time you are rolling forward on zero percent. Then eventually when you die, the deferred £40k is paid out of your estate lol.....

So its costing you 20k a year?

 

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I think what is being talked about here is "PCP" (personal Contract plan) which can be on new or used cars and available from most dealers.

It is a form of finance.

Ever wondered how Land Rover sell so many £100,000 Range Rovers to the average earners in the population.....well this is how it is done.

You basically put a deposit down.......anywhere between £1000 and £5000 minimum deposit usually and then 50% of the outstanding balance is put on finance for say 24 to 48 months and then you have one final payment of the other 50% of the car or you can give the car back and clear the loan (there is no deferring the debt). That is how the debt is paid off.

Pit falls are obviously that if you are doing it to get yourself into an expensive car when you can't really afford the full price is that you will have to give the car back....... but on the bright side you get to drive and enjoy a car that you would never otherwise be able to afford.

Other pitfall is that you have to find a deposit every time you do it and you pay interest on a car that you will never own long term unless you can afford to pay that final 50% off but on the flip side.........how many of us keep a car for over 4 years???

Thousands and thousands of cars are sold this way.....how do you think you can get into a brand new BMW 3 series that's almost £30,000 for say, just £2000 deposit and £300 a month??? Yep , its PCP.

The car industry would be lost without PCP and it is a way for us to drive a new car or expensive car for not much money and that is why it is so popular but be completely aware that no debt is deferred, you are still paying for it by giving the car back.

You will also be limited on the amount of miles you can cover per year so that when you give the car back it will still be worth that 50% of the finance that you are paying off with it.

It depends on your circumstances on whether PCP is good for you.

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5 minutes ago, Peteric said:

how many of us keep a car for over 4 years???

Most of the lotus' i have owned have been kept for ages, apart from the first 3 excels as  I gradually get a newer one. One of my current mg's I have owned since 2004.

My elite s2 I owned for 21 years, so it won't be long till the MG catches up.

My other non lotus non mg cars and the wife's cars are not kept as long.

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Same here, i had an Esprit and Elan M100 for seven years and i intend to keep my Evora for many years but that is why it is down to personal circumstance.

For example, if i did not do the amount of miles i do and i didn't think it would rub my customers up the wrong way, i would probably have a brand new Evora on 50/50 as an everyday car.

Nothing would make me happier than driving it every day and getting that enjoyment out of it so often 😀

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55 minutes ago, Bruss said:

So its costing you 20k a year?

 

No.  

Assuming after 2 years the car is worth £60k you use £40k to pay off your second payment, then £20k towards your next deposit which you need to add £20k to as new money.

So it has cost you £20k over 2 years, £10k a year or around £825 per month with £40k deposit.

You keep doing this every 2 years so you're original £40k cash deposit effectively rolls over in the equity of the car but you need to pay the difference every 2 years.

Personally, I buy cash with a small amount of finance that I am aim to pay off in full in 6 months, as I don't like debt/long term financial commitments, AND I like the added protection I get when I include some finance in case things go tits up.

However, these days, even for pretty "run of the mill stuff", people seem quite happy to sign up to lease deals with a few thousand down and payments of £500 - 750 per month, for something they will never own, like an A4/Q5, etc.

A lot of Macca's, Huracan's also seem to be bought on finance - £15k - £20k cash down, then £1500 - £2000 per month for 2 years and a £90k balloon. That sort of commitment would scare the living daylights out of me, BUT, it means people can pose without having to spend quite a few years to save to get there.

Probably why my entry into nice sports cars came later in life - had a house to buy and family to raise first, then saved the money to purchase outright with a small loan as above.

Now, I have no debts anywhere and I'm good with that. But having a £1500+ monthly commitment and a final debt of say £90k, I just would not sleep at night. We are all different.

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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17 minutes ago, Bruss said:

I like your thinking but an 80K Lotus trade in value of 60K after 2 years?

 

 

Lol, don't get me wrong, I don't like the model, just explaining it.  It does seem to be how people buy and explains why you see so many "new" cars on the road all the time.

However, not that long ago people were buying brand new £68-70k (after discounts) 400 Hethel Editions and after 2 years they were selling for £60k. Go figure.

My own 410 Sport was bought for £83k almost 3 years ago, would be worth £58-60k now. So again, not far off.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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I think the 60K figure is extremely optimistic.

For one, the difference on trade and retail on these cars is going to be a lot bigger!

On a ford Focus there might only be £1500 difference between trade and retail but on a Lotus (bearing in mind that as a retailer you are ultimately responsible if the car fails when you re sell it) most dealers would want a minimum of £5000 margin i should imagine.

Secondly, i should imagine that in the agreement there are going  to be clauses on damage to paint (chips, scuffs etc) and alloys (kerbing etc) and definitely mileage restrictions and who ever is taking the car back in is "underwriting" that car at a certain value which means the value is definitely not gonna be on the sunny side.

However, as i say, it suits some people to buy this way and you are financing a car that is say £80,000 and only paying for half of it.........there are no free lunches in life 🙂

I would also bet that you would also have to have the money to pay the finance off the vehicle (including the last 50% because you still owe that to the finance company) before you try and sell it for a greater amount privately because who would buy a £40,000 to £60,000 car with finance still showing up on the HPI.

It is good for the manufacturer, the dealer and the customer (circumstances permitting) but it is not as sunny side up as people perhaps think.

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New car at 80K loses 16K VAT as soon as you drive it out of the showroom.  Add in on the road costs and you've dropped another 2-3K. Depreciation in the first two years is horrific on all cars but more noticeab;e on higher value cars obviously.  @C8RKH, you got a good deal if you can trade in at 60K but I suspect that may be against a full cost more expensive car.

Private selling a car at 60K. Most struggle to find buyers much lower than that without dealer warranty. finance, perceived benefits of someone to shout at, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I agree @Bruss. But I bought a "keeper" and have no regrets over the price paid or the value of the car now.  The only thing I would swap it for is a McLaren or F458. Am waiting to see what the T131 is all about.

Flipping new cars is a mugs game, with a very, very small percentage of people getting any benefit. You'd be as well just using your £5 notes to burn to keep warm!

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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22 minutes ago, Bruss said:

New car at 80K loses 16K VAT as soon as you drive it out of the showroom

Why is this? Why not drop the BOM cost, the RFL cost, the free mats cost? All things being equal, a 1 day old car back on the forecourt of the dealer (say it was rejected for personal reasons) wouldn't that much cheaper and if such a personal sale went on, I can't imagine the VAT drop is a mandatory? Anything is worth what it sells for, eg remember Cayman GT4's going for way over list, they didn't lost the VAT (as a figure, not the actual tax if you know what I mean), in fact the prices were much higher than the RRP. 

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88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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14 minutes ago, Bibs said:

Why is this? Why not drop the BOM cost, the RFL cost, the free mats cost? All things being equal, a 1 day old car back on the forecourt of the dealer (say it was rejected for personal reasons) wouldn't that much cheaper and if such a personal sale went on, I can't imagine the VAT drop is a mandatory? Anything is worth what it sells for, eg remember Cayman GT4's going for way over list, they didn't lost the VAT (as a figure, not the actual tax if you know what I mean), in fact the prices were much higher than the RRP. 

I wish it were so Bibs but a used Evora doesn't have the same cache as a carefully stored GT4 as much as you and I would both like it to.

You are correct though re it's worth what a buyer will pay.  On finance most people will pay the few extra pounds per mth for new rather than even a year old let alone a few mths. I have always found deals to be done on dealer 'as new; or ex demo stock.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Peteric said:

On a ford Focus there might only be £1500 difference between trade and retail but on a Lotus (bearing in mind that as a retailer you are ultimately responsible if the car fails when you re sell it) most dealers would want a minimum of £5000 margin i should imagine.

Not so. I am assuming you are imagining here. Lotus dealers are willing to do SOR for instance usually for around £2k - £3k - and remember you are buying from the dealer so they are culpable if things go wrong.

I would not say £5k is the minimum. For instance, I PX'd my NA for MORE than the Lotus dealer sold it on for!  It all depends on what you are buying, selling etc.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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27 minutes ago, Bruss said:

On finance most people will pay the few extra pounds per mth for new rather than even a year old let alone a few mths. I have always found deals to be done on dealer 'as new; or ex demo stock

So true. It's why I always try to buy cash rather than finance.  My wife's last car was £33k new retail, I bought the exact spec we wanted, pre-reg, for £24k with 53 miles on the clock.

Her car before that, was £30k new and I bought it for £21k, again, pre-reg, with under 100m on the clock.

Going through finance I'd have been tempted by new, and on a PCP paid £35k and £33k in total (all charges) so each time I saved myself around a third!  (instead of £88k I paid a total of £ 45k!  That's almost buy 2 get one free territory!)  Maybe that's how I managed to buy my Evora lol.....

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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I bought a new car once... Not doing that again! It hurt at resale time and I didn't feel that I got much value from it being 'new' outside of playing with the colour and fabric samples.

 

I've never bought on finance, would only consider doing so if it was a 0% deal and I had the cash in the bank so essentially I'm making money out of doing so. My issue with PCP etc. is that once you are into it, it's quite hard to get out again. You will definitely get a better deal trading up to a newer model than walking away as you will carry some value forward and the dealer will be 'kinder' to you on residual value but that's just signing up to more interest payments and another round in 2-3 years. I also don't really like giving cars back, I would feel like I've been robbed of my pride and joy!

 

I tend to buy older high original value, expensive to run cars in cash that cost less to buy outright by the time I get to them and therefore the running costs don't really matter. Evora a bit of a departure as it has a higher entry price than what I've been in before and running costs theoretically not as bad. Hopefully slowish depreciation will mean that the high initial purchase won't matter too much in the long run.

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